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Just started replaying this epic piece. Had both in the xbox back in the day, and its still good game. So its been a while.

Still, as I was playing, I had this odd feeling that I was forgetting something. I was sure I did every bounty and duel mission, but could not shake off that feeling.
Then it hit me when I arrived Dantoeeni(?) and I became Jedi. I had always saved like 3 or even more level ups, which I saved for Jedi training, and after training I would spend them so I could get more Jedi powers. It was painful to keep mc low level, but Dantoeen(?) part becomes pretty easy thx this.
I'm now 8 level and I'm thinking should I bother to take earlier save and keep my character couple levels lower so I could get some jedi powah. Dunno if its worth it, since this kinda feels like min/max style than straight up roleplaying.
Post edited March 07, 2017 by Grondor1
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Grondor1: Dunno if its worth it, since this kinda feels like min/max style than straight up roleplaying.
It is. Roleplaying is getting into the character, flaws and all. Using tricks/exploits or other means to artificially boost your character is not playing to the role, it's power gaming.
It's not that simple, in fact it's quite complicated.
Basically there are nine possible ways to play the game in terms of classes:
Soldier-Guardian, Solder-Sentinel, Soldier-Consular
Scout-Guardian, Scout-Sentinel, Scout-Consular
Scoundrel-Guardian, Scoundrel-Sentinel, Scoundrel-Consular

Each one has its uses, though of course some are more powerful than others, when maximizing.
The essential parts of developing your character in this game are attributes, feats and skills. Soldiers have more feats than Scoundrels, but Scoundrels have more skill points, for example. Each class has special feats, that are granted at certain levels.
Normally you'll reach Level 8 before becoming a Jedi, so a natural character would be Level 8 Scoundrel - Level 12 Guardian, since the maximum level in the first game is 20. The character would have ten feats in the end.
Alternatively, you could stop leveling your Scoundrel at Level 2. Which would result in Level 2 Scoundrel - Level 18 Guardian, with eleven feats instead of ten. But, you'd have way less skill points, and no advanced special Scoundrel abilities.
Similarly, a Level 2 Scoundrel - Level 18 Consular will have massive amounts of Force Points and many Force Powers, but at the cost of fewer feats and skill points.

Point is, a more powerful Jedi part of the equation doesn't necessarily equal a more powerful character.
If you're interested, you can look up all the dirty details [url=http://strategywiki.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_Knights_of_the_Old_Republic/Character_generation]here[/url].

All that being said... don't worry about it. The game (and its sequel) are very easy combat-wise, even with not giving a damn at all, you'll easily beat it.
And, I have played and completed the game many times and never bothered with this stuff in-game. Being a late-bloomer is part of the story and it fits the general way of things well.
I would slightly disagree about game being that easy - you do need to care for it, take some consideration into team and so on.

That being said, about original question: while people tend to do this in favor of Jedi classes, it's up to you really. While it kinda feels like power playing, but on the other hand - going by this, you could say picking strong feats is also power playing. :P You can 'explain' it in-game howerver you like it, so if this sits well with you, go ahead and save as many levels as you can.
And this is not exploit, rather knowledge of what happens. A bit 'unfair', from a perspective, but I wouldn't say it matters.
I, myself, usually go with normal leveling, including first class.
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Bethezer: I would slightly disagree about game being that easy - you do need to care for it, take some consideration into team and so on.
Yes, after thinking about it for a moment, I guess you're right. I've played both games so often, that I could beat them blind, but I did have troubles on my first playthroughs here and there.
Especially the second game can be difficult, since you'll play with your companions only sometimes, so putting some thought into skilling them can't hurt.
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Urnoev: Yes, after thinking about it for a moment, I guess you're right. I've played both games so often, that I could beat them blind, but I did have troubles on my first playthroughs here and there.
How easy is the game supposed to be? Some part should be challenging or it would be boring. Your character is quite overpowered. There is no need to game the system. Hell, it's balanced on the assumption that you level normally on Taris anyway (largely what you said initially).
Post edited March 20, 2017 by Gydion
Well, it isn't the most complicated system out there, but it comes down to your style of playing too. I never bother much with my companions, so it was difficult for me the first few times, basically playing alone and letting the companions do their thing. I also set myself the restriction that no party member shall go down even once during combat.

Now I'm perfecting my characters for fun, and obviously am way too strong throughout.
Well, it's based on D&D - give enough points in one stat, and you can instalkill rankors. With Force Choke. Though, to be fair, D&D allows even more OP builds. :P
Thanks for jogging my memory.

I was about to start a new play a few days ago, and this reminded me to save some levels. Doing a Scout 4/Guardian build.

If you remember the twist there is some RP justification for Jedi levels to come back in a rush.

Usually I like the in-between class, but looking at the three Jedi Classes, I was surprised how much the Sentinel sucks. He gets the same feats and BAB as the Cunsular and he gets the same force powers count as the Guardian. It's like the worse of both. He is really only in between on Vitality and Force Points.
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Urnoev: It's not that simple, in fact it's quite complicated.
(...)
If you're interested, you can look up all the dirty details [url=http://strategywiki.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_Knights_of_the_Old_Republic/Character_generation]here[/url].
It is indeed complicated and I thank you for that link!

Currently I go for nostalgia yet I enjoy a challenge - thus I attempt to solo all those party RPGs I played years ago, including KOTOR. Gotta say: there are quite some challenges... It's kind of embarassing but the 1st dark jedi (sith base on Taris) required some "cheating" (save-scumming) to beat with my level 8 Scoundrel (who became a Guardian later on). I guess the Scoundrel's Reflex Safe focus isn't really advantageous at that point...

As for class combinations: I'd say Scoundrel's Luck (+4 def) is a major advantage, as is the backstab + force jump combo. Although other starting classes may have an easier time against that dark jedi I do not currently see a way to beat the sith base @level 2 (in a solo). Apart from that saving levels can certainly be an advantage (depending on what you want) yet it's definitely not "straight out better".

Cheers!
Post edited April 17, 2017 by Zadok_Allen
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Zadok_Allen: Currently I go for nostalgia yet I enjoy a challenge - thus I attempt to solo all those party RPGs I played years ago, including KOTOR. Gotta say: there are quite some challenges... It's kind of embarassing but the 1st dark jedi (sith base on Taris) required some "cheating" (save-scumming) to beat with my level 8 Scoundrel (who became a Guardian later on). I guess the Scoundrel's Reflex Safe focus isn't really advantageous at that point...

As for class combinations: I'd say Scoundrel's Luck (+4 def) is a major advantage, as is the backstab + force jump combo. Although other starting classes may have an easier time against that dark jedi I do not currently see a way to beat the sith base @level 2 (in a solo). Apart from that saving levels can certainly be an advantage (depending on what you want) yet it's definitely not "straight out better".

Cheers!
IMO, after playing both Scout and Scoundrel to the fight with Juhani, Scout is better, that bonus AC didn't really seem to have any significant impact.

4 levels of scout gives you:
Medium Armor proficiency (Some nice headgear is Medium, and medium armor is handy early on).
3 Feats of your choice.
2 levels of implant.
Flurry (best active combat trait).

Basically 3 free feats you probably want anyway, Plus 3 more of your choice. Scout is ahead of everyone on the Feat front, and Scoundrel is in the rear.

For Skills, scout gets Computer which is just about the most useful of the skills (outside of persuade which everyone gets as Jedi). Scout also gets Repair if you want to fix up a Certain psycho robot.

For saving throws, Scoundrels get Reflex, Soldiers get Fortitude, Scouts gets them all: Reflex, Fortitude and Will.

Scout is IMO, the best starting class for a Guardian by far.
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PeterScott: (...)
For Skills, scout gets Computer which is just about the most useful of the skills (outside of persuade which everyone gets as Jedi). Scout also gets Repair if you want to fix up a Certain psycho robot.
(...)
Scout is IMO, the best starting class for a Guardian by far.
The Scout has undeniable advantages (although the ingame info hardly tells you half his advantages initially).
Perhaps you are right. I envy those Saving Throws most of all...

I wonder about the skills. Is security useful? Not sure how much one actually gets out of it. Stealth certainly is. A few situations allow slipping by & the Scoundrel's Sneak Attack gives 14 damage per attack (on average) when attacking from stealth. Demolitions renders a few fights easier, some rough ones among them (in combo w/ Stealth anyway).
So far (after Dantooine) I haven't needed Computer or Repair at all. I've got so many Spikes & Parts: Solving a couple of key situations isn't a problem. That said I have to admit: Saving helps. Without it the "safe route" via consoles would be a lot more attractive. However: It's not the hardest fights you'll skip due to it. What makes you consider it the best skill?

As to the Scoundrel's luck (+4 def): I'd expect it to do a lot if one maxes out defense. With Jedi Senses, Force Aura and a bunch of Dexterity you can achieve ridiculous values. Question is whether it allows to take literally no damage from attacks at some point.
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Zadok_Allen: As to the Scoundrel's luck (+4 def): I'd expect it to do a lot if one maxes out defense. With Jedi Senses, Force Aura and a bunch of Dexterity you can achieve ridiculous values. Question is whether it allows to take literally no damage from attacks at some point.
I have now have all the star charts, and Def is pretty much a non issue. The threats in the game are not physical attacks, but usually force power from other powerful Jedi.

Also consider Active Talents. Scoundrel is pretty much forced into "Critical Strike". This has a -5 Def penalty, even when maxed out. The Scout Talent is Flurry and maxed out, only has a -1 penalty. If you are going to use your active talent, then all the Scoundrel Defense bonus does, is cancel the penalty for using it's active talent.

Security: Definitely one of the most useless skills by far. Everything that you can open with security you can just bash open. So really it's value is negligible. Some marginal value getting one sneak attack.

Computer: Every base has computers, which you can use view the security cameras everywhere, while killing off rooms of enemies, with gas or exploding conduits, lowering force fields and opening secure doors etc, getting full area maps. There some rooms that don't open any other way. Definitely one of the best skills IMO. You may not NEED it, but you will fight more without it, and have less information, and potentially get less treasure.

Repair: An easy pass, as it usually just lets you activate a robot to help fight in a small area. The main reason people boost it, is to repair HK-47. This can only be done by the main characters Repair ability.

Demolitions: Mainly nice to recover mines. All starting classes get this one anyway. I max this on Carth, since he is usually in my party.

I could see playing a Scoundrel if you are dead set on playing stealth, but IMO it is kind of terrible in this game. You usually have to fight boss fights straight up anyway (cutscene->battle), and rooms of enemies stealthing one character is of little value. You have the advantage mainly in the odd situation of fighting a lone middle level character, which you really should have no trouble with anyway.

Without stealth, there really is no reason to play a Scoundrel. Missing some good skills, poorest feats, poorest vitality, mediocre saves. It's a one trick pony, in a game where that trick really doesn't work that well.

That being said, with Force powers, and gear you get so many boost, any character gets powerful later on.
Post edited April 18, 2017 by PeterScott
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PeterScott: I have now have all the star charts, and Def is pretty much a non issue. The threats in the game are not physical attacks, but usually force power from other powerful Jedi.

Also consider Active Talents. Scoundrel is pretty much forced into "Critical Strike". This has a -5 Def penalty, even when maxed out. The Scout Talent is Flurry and maxed out, only has a -1 penalty. If you are going to use your active talent, then all the Scoundrel Defense bonus does, is cancel the penalty for using it's active talent.
Your points are valid - can't fault you there. Then again I play my own self-restriction and do not take a party ever. That not only makes "Solo Mode" (as needed for Stealth) a non-issue: it also means there is no Demolitions on Carth and repairing HK-47 is irrelevant.

You are wrong about the one sneak attack though. I just took down the 1st terentatek w/o taking damage by force jumping sneakily onto him three times, disengaging in between. Plus mines. It does need patience but with the Jedi Speed Force Power disengaging isn't too hard, so I end up using those sneak attacks a lot. Almost exclusively actually. It makes a HUGE difference. It kills pretty much everything but actual bosses with one jump. I skilled up Flurry but I only use it rarely - the sneak jumps are much better. Those cut scene fights are indeed messy but even those often allow disengaging and using sneak jumps (I hate those that don't -.-). Although I thought about crit it would require a completely different setup, messing w/ the jumps, the early damage and the defense. Thus I skipped that.
Also physical attacks are an issue. Not the only one of course but pretty much the main thing if you've got to tank everything yourself. One level to go and I'll be Guardian level 6 and I'll have 37 def w/ buffs (35 currently). In in the end I'll be well above 40. I guess 50 requires one handed combat and an eaven heavier dex focus, which is a lot less damage and cannot ensure a clean kill per jump. Perhaps I can manage 45 or even a tad more with steroids.
Post edited April 18, 2017 by Zadok_Allen
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Zadok_Allen: You are wrong about the one sneak attack though. I just took down the 1st terentatek w/o taking damage by force jumping sneakily onto him three times, disengaging in between. Plus mines. It does need patience but with the Jedi Speed Force Power disengaging isn't too hard, so I end up using those sneak attacks a lot. Almost exclusively actually. It makes a HUGE difference. It kills pretty much everything but actual bosses with one jump. I skilled up Flurry but I only use it rarely - the sneak jumps are much better. Those cut scene fights are indeed messy but even those often allow disengaging and using sneak jumps (I hate those that don't -.-).
I just finished the game, and my Defense was only 23 and the end, and it didn't matter at all and fought everything toe-to-toe.

The thing about sneak jumps is you still jump kill stuff quite handily without the sneak part. I was running through the Star Forge ahead of my team and jumping from Robots to Dark Sith and killing most in one jump. I didn't really need the team. They needed baby sitting, I got far ahead, then noticed they were in trouble and went back for them. Most of the game they are present for conversation, not combat value.

Plus Jump, doesn't always jump when you want it to, so if you are depending on that it isn't so good. Maxed Flurry and Two Weapon, and master speed = 5 attacks/round with high strength, I am averaging 40+/hit *5 hits for 200 points/flurry, so jump or not, I am crushing everything, and I don't have to run away and jump again, resort to mines, etc.

I had a LOL moment when I met what was supposed to be a mini-boss. One of Maleks Apprentices, , that lays out the big monologue on how he know you are Revan and he will finally get a real challenge. The fight was over in my first flurry. Never touched me. That is why defense isn't that important, dead enemies don't hurt you.

Every time Malek recharged, I would crush him easily, doing nothing but standing toe to toe with him.

But like I said before, you can play it with any combo.