I'm rolling these two together because they're similar enough, but what makes Paladin stand out is how it's different from the Fighter.

I'll try to keep my post smaller this time.

I liked the Fighter more when I was a kid because "yey sowrds" and stuff, but now I find that he doesn't have enough going for him by himself. To avoid becoming the superior Paladin, you have to basically be a jerkass in Quest for Glory 3 - refuse to swear an oath of honor (I think this alone will disqualify you), flirt with the welcome woman, and at the most extreme, avoid helping Yesufu during your initiation.

In QFG4, he's literally just a stripped down Paladin with nothing unique for him other than an axe. QFG5 is the only one that makes him interesting, and that's because he only gets deeds/points for *avoiding* the pacifistic route, and is the only class to do so - you've gotta take everything head-on, resolve all of your problems with violence, and so forth.

That being said, if I had to say which ones I liked him most in, it would be the first two games. In the first game, the fighter can resolve combat quickest, and is the only class that can naturally embarass the egomaniac Swordy Lordy. In the second game, you get to duel Khaveen, making Fighter the only class that can shut him up, face to face, and best of all, without stooping to his level.

But the Paladin... ah, the Paladin...

To Seek
To Learn
To Do

I first fell in love with the entire *concept* of a Paladin in Quest for Glory 3, even though, at the time, the only way I knew how to play one was to change my class during importing. That cool blue flame, Rakeesh's mentoring taking on a whole new, personal level, and the ability to heal others is great.

Literally every other Paladin in fiction, perhaps even the original members of Charlemagne's court, are measured against Quest for Glory's paladin. The more like QFG's paladin, the better they are. Do they care more about religious zealotry than righteous causes? Then they're not really paladins in my eyes.

My favorite is actually Quest for Glory 5, where it expands the paladin power set into a greater set of abilities. And to make them more distinct from magic, they receive no penalty from wearing armor and can be used while wielding a weapon larger than a dagger. Being able to turn undead into a pile of spectral ashes just by willing the cessation of their cursed existence is amazing, and one I wish I had in Quest for Glory 4.

My only criticism of the Paladin is a lack of opportunity - there are only a few opportunities in these games for the Paladin to be able to heal other people. The first opportunity is in Quest for Glory 3, when helping the Meerbat who got stuck by the poison vines. The second opportunity is in the finale of Quest for Glory 5 when you're teaming up with several others to defeat the Doom Dragon. (Now, you can use healing powers on the NPCs who get poisoned by the assassin, but it's just a temporary measure and the only way to really help them is with poison cure pills)

It kinda sucks because Rakeesh says that the Simbani actually really respect healing magic, even if they fear other forms of magic, but you never get an opportunity to really earn their respect in that matter.

Incidentally, Rakeesh is my favorite character in the entire series, so a lot of my Paladin respect is also respect for him.

As far as other games go...

Heroine's Warrior is one of the better ones I've seen whose class trait is "uses weapons." It helps that she gets some very unique abilities that don't revolve around "Swinging your weapon harder". And earning Balmung is *almost* as goosebumpy as earning Soulforge, but sadly, Balmung itself isn't the perfect weapon I thought it'd be, and actually using it is quite difficult - though in a sense, that's not a bad thing.

Quest for Infamy has no Paladin, aside from an NPC, though I remember a dev saying to me that they might include some sort of ascended class in the future games. (However, with Infamous Studios pretty much shutting down after they get the second and now final game out, I have no idea how likely this still is.)

The Path of the Brigand, however, I feel I actually like more than others on this board do. For one thing, it's practically less comparable to the "Fighter" from QFG and more comparable to a Fighter/Thief hybrid. Okay, you can't break into houses, sure, but you actually get to engage in highway robbery! You actually get to BE the bad guys you fought in the first QFG! It's a nice thrill, and I actually like the advantages he gets. Higher combat stats to start with means blocking is easier. There's a dummy you can train your weapon skills at, once a day, enabling you to practice somewhat safely. Whenever you use your attack icon on an enemy on the world map, instead of rushing into combat, it's a dashing attack that deals initial damage to the enemy. And finally, the Brigand's unique attack is actually pretty cool looking and is charged up by a skill that all three classes will be using liberally anyways - blocking.

The problems with the Fighter/Paladin are twofold:

1) First of all, the combat in the series is, more often than not, very unsatisfying, which in turn greatly affect the enjoyment you can get of playing a Fighter class. The only game that gets the combat right in my opinion is Trial By Fire, especially the remake, the original is fantastic in its own rights, but the remake, with the combo system and fighting multiple enemies at the same time, that blew my mind.

2) Secondly the Fighter's side activities are implicit rather than explicit, they are there, but the game, most of the time, does not point you in any direction, and the Fighter's side activities are, most of the time, not unique to the Fighter class.

There's killing the tough monsters (Troll, Cheataur, Scorpion and Ghoul) to collect ingredients for the healer, but I think every classes get points for doing that.

There is of course the obvious monster killing check listing where you get points for each unique monster you kill, which you can do with any classes, you just won't get point for it however.

There's tough encounters hidden here and there that are there solely for the Fighter to enjoy: Killing the Kobold, Minotaur, Fred the Troll (I think his name is Fred), Merv the Griffin, storming the blockade in the Bandit Camp, cleaning the increasingly difficult Goblin's Camp, but once again, you can do that with any classes.

There's achieving Paladinhood, but again, this isn't limited to the Fighter Class.

So, suppose you play the game as a Thief or a Wizard first, if you did all of those thing already, there is very little reason to replay the game as a Fighter.

The Fighter does get the Sword Master to defeat in the first game, and has unique fights against Rakeesh, the Earth Elemental, and Khaveen, as well as the Eternal Order of Fighters in the sequel, but that's about it, I always felt it was not enough, I wish Corey had coded a time machine to travel in 2011 and taken a page or two from Skyrim and Oblivion, with a proper fighter guild, with bounty hunts, special monsters, mini bosses and what not. They did try to do something with the Eternal Order of Fighters but I don't know, that felt more like something you'd do for an Assassin class (here I'm thinking like, a class that would be to the Thief what the Paladin was to the Fighter). And, to my limited knowledge of Quest For Glory, the Eternal Order of Fighters isn't something that was revisited in the sequels.

Quest For Glory III however did have the Warrior's Initiation for the Fighter class, which was very nice in my opinion. Unfortunately the combat system is a definite step down from the previous game.

The Fighter has unfortunately nothing going on for it in Quest For Glory IV unfortunately, beyond storming the gate to the castle and killing two Necrotaurs back to back, or maybe if you find the combats too hard and want an easy mode for them, there is no reason to replay the game as a Fighter if you already played the game as another class before, which is a shame. And, although it was different from the previous games, I don't like the fighting system in that game, plus those cheese enemies, like the projectile spamming Chernovies and Wraiths (I think they're called Wraith) and those god awful Necrotaurs, are such a pain to defeat, I constantly found myself running away from monsters in that game, even as a Fighter. But I play the series with maximum arcade difficulty so your mileage may vary on this one.

The remake of Quest For Glory II did add the combo system, where you learn new tricks as you become stronger, has Sweeping Sir James and the Warrior's Log that you can try to complete if you so desire, which was a nice side activity to give to the Fighter class, plus the Pizza Elemental (although I have never been able to defeat it.)

So yeah, in term of gameplay, side activities and combat system, I had more fun playing a Fighter in Quest For Glory I and II, but especially the remake of the second game, than I had playing a Fighter in Quest For Glory III and IV.

However, even if the gameplay and the combat system are a step down compared to the previous game, plot wise I had more fun playing Quest For Glory III as a Fighter or a Paladin, than I had playing as a Wizard or a Thief, due to the Warrior's Initiation and possible promotion to become a Paladin for the former, and the whole tagging along with your mentor in his homeland for the latter.

As for Quest For Glory IV, I have not completed my Fighter/Mage/Thief/Paladin playthrough yet, but due to the general vibe of the game, the fact that everyone needs help and you can help every one in Mordavia, even if it's just helping Boris and Olga talk to each others again, plus the Rusalka (or is it Rasulka? I forgot) side quest, the game was definitively designed with the Paladin in mind.

Unfortunately, even though I want to disagree with you, I'll admit that the Fighter doesn't have much going for him beyond "hunting monsters for points". Also, hunting the Kobold isn't even exclusive to the Fighter - the Magic User has to do it to in order to get max points. (The Thief is the only one that can allow the Kobold to live and still get a "legit" max score of 500 out of 500)

I feel like EOF was *intended* to be a joke. Everything about them indicates that they're supremely jealous of both the Thieves Guild and the Wizard's Institute of Technocery - so they create a secret handshake, use nonsensical marks as a fake secret language, and so forth.

4 was definitely made with Paladin in mind, which is actually an improvement over 3 where it was just "oh, Paladins are just Fighters but with a few extra points to get and some differences in the plotline". But maybe too much. 4 also revolves heavily around the Wizard, too, though you can't save the Rusalka sadly.

5 though, is honestly what you're looking for in a Fighter. Where the other three classes gain points and accomplish deeds by resolving things in a diplomatic or pacifistic manner, the Fighter gains points by charging in and hitting things until they die or concede. Unlike the Paladin who *starts* with literally the best weapon in the game, the Fighter has to experiment with the various weapon types (though as usual, swords are brokenly better than every other weapon type, and the best weapon you can equip is still a sword). Also, while any class can participate in the Coliseum, only the Fighter gets points for doing so, making it a mandatory sidequest for 100% for them. Paladin's about peace, Wizard's about strategy, Thief's about cunning, but the Fighter is about kicking ass.

You got me wondering now, where would you disagree with me?

I think all you have to do to avoid becoming a paladin in QFG3 is don't ask Rakeesh about paladin at every opportunity. I have tried to become a paladin in QFG3 many times and failed most of the time, then I read that you need to ask Rakeesh about the paladin at every opportunity if you want to become one. So you don't have to do that other stuff to avoid it, and you probably want help Yesufu anyway, since that gets you points and not doing that puts you at risk for losing the whole game.

Anyway, the fighter path is the best path when it's your first playthrough of a QFG-related game. The fighter is the strongest and has a sword and shield, so he can take the most mistakes from a player. But as you get more and more experienced it tends to become the least interesting path. The fighter solutions to puzzles tend to be more difficult and less fun, and it takes longer to beat the game as a fighter because he has to grind his skills in combat and defeat all the monsters in the game while the other character classes can do far less combat (except in Quest For Infamy). Also the hero often has to do direct solutions, even if they result in him taking damage (like from traps on locked chests).

QFG1 is one of the more annoying games for the fighter compared to the other character classes, and, once you get the hang of being a magic user or thief, I'd say fighter is the most difficult class in this game. Some of the puzzle solutions are most difficult for the fighter. The biggest example is the only necessary puzzle in the game where I needed a walkthrough to solve it: The Spore Spitting Spirea puzzle. I solved that puzzle on my own as a thief and magic user ( though in the latter case having to cast fetch a hundred times before it worked was annoying), but I just couldn't figure out the fighter solution. Well, the correct fighter solution anyway. It didn't take me too long to find the wrong solution, and boy am I glad I noticed the loss in points when I did that and saved the game in a different slot. In my defense, the correct fighter solution is somewhat silly to me. While it makes sense, in real life that would have about a one in a million chance of working. The hero's throwing accuracy is amazing for a beginner hero. On a related note, I believe the fighter is the only character class that can get turned into a flower. The other 2 character classes can only anger the Dryad by attacking the stag. Also annoying is having to throw 3 rocks at 'Enry's door before he shows you the ladder when the magic user and thief can discover it on their own. The fighter is the only character class that has to fight Toro, the most difficult enemy in the game, and it's a shame because if he knew you were there to save Elsa, he wouldn't attack you. It is interesting that Toro survives the fight and can be seen in bandages at the end of the game, and that he attended your ceremony and he likes you in QFG5. I personally wouldn't like someone who kicked my ass. The fighter also has 3 other things I hate. I don't know what I hate more:

-Dying because I run out of stamina. This doesn't happen in any of the other games, with one little exception in the original QFG2. In most games, being out of stamina just means you health starts going down when you get tired.

-Fighting Swordy Lordy, who is next to impossible to defeat

-Grinding until I get 1000 experience points so the Saurus Rexes show up. I can easily make it to then end of the game with less than half of that. It's an annoying thing that I have to deal with when I go for the perfect score. In the end, I've never beaten a game as a fighter with more than 488 points.

QFG2 is one of the better fighter games IMO. It fixes the 2 things I really hated in QFG1: You don't die if you run out of stamina, with one exception: in the original QFG2, if you are fighting a ghoul, and he attacks you with his claws, and you run out of stamina, you die. That was fixed in the remake. Experience does not matter in this game: all the monsters will appear regardless of your experience. Lastly, QFG2's equivalent of Swordy Lordy, Uhura, is someone you can train with, but the 2 differences that make Uhura better are that you can fight her for free, and you can beat her as many times as you want, unlike Swordy Lordy who leaves forever if you beat him. Also Uhura is more beatable than Swordy Lordy. AGD Interactive's "Quest For Glory 2" has BY FAR the best combat system of all the QFG games. Only one QFG-related game even comes close to making an argument here, which I'll get into later. In the QFG2-remake, the combat is actually half the fun of playing the game, while the other games are games I play in spite of the combat not because of it. It's even more fun as a wizard, but it's fun no matter the character class. You can dveelop new skills by upping your weapon use. You can even fight the Griffin if you don't care about being a paladin, and in the remake, you can kill the griffin and still become paladin (I have done this). Killing the Griffin is a fun, 3-day challenge, at least in the remake I don't know about the original. They named him Merv the Griffin, which is funny (it's a reference to Merv Griffin, a TV personality who created Wheel of Fortune and Jeopardy). Fighting each of the monsters in the remake is a fun challenge. Each monster is its own challenge, and you have to learn a certain fighting style for each monster in the remake, unlike in the other QFG games where no matter what the monster is, you basically just attack it until it dies and maybe just drink a potion once in a while. The remake also adds some Easter egg monsters, including a brigand named "Sweeping Sir James" that can appear in town, and the challenge of all challenge: the Pizza Elemental. BOY, is that thing tough, but it is beatable, and beating that thing the first time I did it was the best feeling I'd had in a long time. To this day, there still have been few things in my life that made me as happy as beating the pizza elemental. It's a heck of a challenge, but boy, is it worth it. QFG2 is also one of the few games with an interesting fighter-specific task, the EOF. In the original game, that was one of the biggest problems because if your dodging is too low, you'll be stuck there. I don't think the dodging problem is there in the remake, and with the improved combat system, the EOF is pretty good in the remake, albeit still not as much fun as WIT or stealing things. The fighter is also unique in that he's the only one who can defeat Khaveen (he won't even fight the wizard or thief), and in the remake this is one of the highlights. If you don't finish him off while he's unarmed, fighting Khaveen in the remake is the 2nd best fight in the series to the pizza elemental. Khaveen throws everything at you, including skills that you can only get if you get your weapon use skill above 200 with the genie. You can use those skills on Khaveen and he'll use them on you, and then we'll see who the best fighter in Shapeir or Raseir is. Of course in addition, QFG2 offers the side quest of becoming a paladin. It's annoying in the fact that it's hidden, and in order to achieve it you have to listen to Omar's entire poem when he appears in the fountain plaza, then get his purse and return it to him without stealing from it. Getting the purse is a very obscure thing now that I think about it. Other than that, learning how to become a paladin is a fun challenge.

In QFG3, you can start playing as a paladin. This defeats the purpose of being a fighter, since the paladin can do everything the fighter can and more. QFG3 is the best game for the fighter or paladin, since they can do the Simbani initiation. In my opinion, the Simbani initiation is more fun the the magic duel with Shaman, and certainly more fun than any break-ins. Probably the reason QFG3 is the game for the fighter/paladin to shine is that Uhura is a warrior and Rakeesh is a paladin, so it makes sense that their strengths would be the focus of this game. I really enjoy training for the Simbani intiation at their village, with the spear-throwing and the wrestling bridge. The Simbani intiation is my favorite part of the game. I also like the fact that the fighter can use the Spear of Death at the end. The paladin also gets more of the story than the other classes. If you're a paladin, the demon wizard will tell you that he stole both the drum and the spear. Again, as I said when I was discussing the thief, why the demon wizard knows or cares about your character class is beyond me. Combat in QFG3 is also fun, because I LOVE the pre-combat music (not the music for when you're in combat, but the music for when a monster is chasing you and you;re about to be in combat). And the combat itself is a little better than it was in previous games or would be in future Sierra QFG games.

QFG4 offers almost nothing for the fighter. Fighting with the axe is not an incentive. The paladin, on the other hand, does get some cool side quests and he gets to learn more of the story of Mordavia than the other classes. The paladin is the only class that can help the Rusalka. I played this game as a paladin just to do that. The paladin also also the only character class who can meet Piotyr. Piotyr's ghost can be found at Erana's staff at night, and he will give you some useful hints for some paladin sidequests (and maybe some main quests too). It's a little unfortunate you can't talk to Piotyr, but it's cool you can talk to him. When you get his sword from the wraith and return it to the Burgomeister, you can even more cool storylines. You learn that the Burgomeister had been grumpy this whole game because he thought his grandfather abandoned his grandmother. Even though his grandmother slept at the staff with Piotyr, no one, not even the Burgomeister, believed her. So you learn that Piotyr was hated in Mordavia and his family had been given a bad name. But when you return Piotyr's sword to the Burgomeister and tell him where you found it, you prove that Piotyr did not abandon his wife he just absolutely had to fight off a major evil and he died in battle, and you prove that not only was Piotyr not a bad man, he was actually a hero. I actually love making the Burgomeister happy.
QFG5 is when you learn most of the paladin abilities the hero will ever learn. One of the downsides of QFG3 and QFG4 is not being able to use your paladin abilities all that much. You can use them a lot more in QFG5. My personal favorite is the Awe ability, which makes monsters run. You can also use paladin abilities to give yourself super strength, and defend yourself against weapon attacks, magic attacks, and undead). QFG5 is also one of the rare opportunities to use your healing spell to heal others (you can heal Toro and Gort during the dragon battle). The paladin can also solve the bank robbery on day 3, and with Julanar's help the paladin can help Andre and Arestes. The paladin is also the only character class that gets points for rescuing Ugarte and Rakeesh from poison. The other character classes might as well just let them die, since they get no points anyway. The paladin can also get the ring of truth, which is interesting, albeit disappointingly only useful once. I also like that the game gives you a paladin you can import. QFG4 you can change you character to a paladin, but the game doesn't offer a paladin you can import. QFG3 you actually have to have a paladin from QFG2. For the fighter in the other hand, QFG5 is a pain in the ass. The fighter, if he wants the perfect score, has to challenge everybody in the arena. This means that the fighter can't finish the game until day 26, although it is pretty easy to get everything done long before that. In additon, the fighter is the only character class that actually has to go out swimming (not just when he's going to Atlantis) to find a salamander to kill. To make matters worse, it can take forever for the salamanders to appear. The QFG games get worse and worse for the fighter, and QFG5 is just about as bad as it gets for the fighter. Would not recommend playing the game with that class.

thoughts on Heroine's Quest and Quest For Infamy coming up if someone else makes a post

Combat being unenjoyable making the purpose of Fighter obsolete, or something along those lines.

I don't remember exactly why I said it now.

Heroine's Quest has a challenge similar to the become-a-paladin challenge in QFG2. Like QFG2, the game won't tell you all the honmorable things you have to do, but if you are honorable enough, you get rewarded with a flaming sword. The downside is the sword is so big and heavy, the heroine has to wield it with 2 hands meaning she cannot use a shield while she's using Balmung. But it's still a worthwhile thing to attempt, at least for the satisfaction of doing it. It is a little annoying when you have to put a lot more work into rescuing Brynhild than the other character classes do (most character classes can go straight to Brynhild at the beginning of act 3. The fighter has to go to Arngrim and the swamp first). Still, it's pretty cool to be the only character class that can do anything in the swamp. The Heroine's Quest combat system is great. It's difficult at first, but once you get the hang of it, it's lots of fun. And the designers were nice enough that if you want to essentially skip the combat, you can turn the difficulty all the way down and combat will be super easy. You can always train with Hervor too. Well, almost always. If you choose to do an optional thing, then you can't train with her ever again. I do like that the game has that optional thing and doesn't try to incentivize you with points, instead leaving it completely up to you whether you want to do it or not. The cave of bones challenge in Svartalfheim, where you can fight all of the monsters in the game in ascending order of difficulty, is a great thing. While it's VERY hatrd to beat, it's also very rewarding. I'd call it the 3rd-greatest fighting challenge in a QFG game behind Khaveen and the Pizza Elemental. Overall, Heroine's Quest got it just right. The fighter is the best class for beginners, but also has some other fun challenges to make it as good as the other classes.

Quest For Infamy on the other hand, the fighter is a bad class to play as. Roehm has plenty of ability with his sword and will be doing lots of combat no matter what his character class is, so there's not much incentive to be a fighter. In addition, the combat system isn't very good in QFI. The game attempts to incentivize playing as a brigand by giving him more hit points than the other classes, but this is more than offset by the fact that the brigand doesn't have any good special abilities. Oh he has one special ability, but that ability is so useless you're better off just stabbing, slashing, and hacking like the other classes can do. There are a few brigand-specific side-quests , but in my opinion those aren't a whole lot of fun. The best part about playing as a brigand as the drinking game you have to play before you can become one. That mini-game is AWESOME, not just the game but the music for the game, so kudos to QFI for that. The best incentive to be a brigand is that he gets the best music (the music for the brigand hideout is awesome too). Actually playing as a brigand though, is by far my least favorite class. The first time I played QFI, I played as a sorceror, and not once did I ever struggle with the fact that the sorceror is the weakest in terms of hit points.

Fighters and Paladin are a mixed bag of fun for me, personally. I LOVE what the game did in Quest for Glory 1 and 2 with the Fighter; it really felt like a full class on it's own, with it's own objectives compared to the Wizard and Thief.

In QFG3, the Fighter felt more like a Paladin Minus... or maybe it was the Paladin felt like a Fighter Plus.

I agree with you about QFG4; the Fighter was DEFINITELY a Paladin Minus. He was, however, the hardest class to actually win with. Without Magic or Acrobatics, the swamp is bad. Real bad. I hate it.

In QFG5, admittedly, I haven't really played as a Fighter often enough to know. I always did a Paladin if I was going to be combat heavy. :/

I've found the fighter to be the most fun to play with in Dragon Fire. In addition to that though, the fighter also has a somewhat more unique ending in Wages of War, when you get to the endgame section. As a paladin, you defeat the demon wizard by throwing your sword at him. As a fighter though, Yesufu gives you the Spear of Death to use on the demon wizard.

Unfortunately, the only way I've been able to access this ending was by using an older non-dos-box version of the game that ran a lot faster. This resulted in the Simbani chief constantly asking what I wanted, again and again, whenever I visited his hut; which in turn led to me losing a lot of honor. However, it also caused the game to crash during the initiation, right when Yesufu throws his second spear in the first game. The only way I was able to get past that crash was by using a program called Turbo to slow the game down (though even with that program, it was still difficult to set it right).

My other problem with playing a paladin though, is that earning the healing spell gives me magic points; which causes me to gain magic spells that I absolutely did not ask for and do not feel like using, and NPCs in Dragon Fire referring to me as a wizard. The only way I can think of, to avoid such a fate and play Dragon Fire as a true paladin, is to skip both Wages of War and Shadows of Darkness and just import straight from Trial By Fire - which is quite regrettable, since the paladin is the hero I tend to have the most enjoyable experience playing those two games as. (Except of course, for that whole honor loss thing in the Simbani chief's hut, that I previously mentioned.)

If your magic skill is low enough going into 5, it gets "deleted" entirely, along with any spells that are below a certain threshold.

I think the magic number is 200? Or maybe it was 100.