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Project WarlockNo Save option make game borderline unplayable.(16 posts)(16 posts)
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Posted December 02, 2018
NO option to save the game makes it borderline unplayable for anyone with an actual life. I've played games written 'back in the day' and even they offered the option to save your place and retrrun to play later.

If you want to eliminate the 'save scum' practice - fine. There are procedures used by several games to do just that. not having any save option at all is ... beyond arrogant
Posted December 02, 2018
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Easyone512: NO option to save the game makes it borderline unplayable for anyone with an actual life. I've played games written 'back in the day' and even they offered the option to save your place and retrrun to play later.

If you want to eliminate the 'save scum' practice - fine. There are procedures used by several games to do just that. not having any save option at all is ... beyond arrogant
The game saves after every stage though? If "having an actual life" means being unable to play 10-15 minutes sessions then one shouldn't probably play a videogame at all.
Posted December 07, 2018
Thats a design choice. Its meant to be a throwback to the 16 bit era, with limited lives and only an autosave backing you up. If you cant do it, I'm sorry , the only way is to get good at FPS games. If you cant beat this, woe be unto you if you play anything like Quake or Blood
Posted January 03, 2019
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UnbornDecay25: If you cant beat this, woe be unto you if you play anything like Quake or Blood
You could save manually in Quake and Blood.

Also in Wolf 3D, DooM, Shadow Warrior, RoTT, etc.
Posted January 13, 2019
high rated
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Easyone512: NO option to save the game makes it borderline unplayable for anyone with an actual life. I've played games written 'back in the day' and even they offered the option to save your place and retrrun to play later.

If you want to eliminate the 'save scum' practice - fine. There are procedures used by several games to do just that. not having any save option at all is ... beyond arrogant
Ok, first of all - sorry your experience is hindered by the lack of save. But let me back up a bit. Project Warlock was meant to evoke the old school classical games vibe - this is something that is a no brainer at this point.

The most obvious inspirations that are brought up are worn there on the sleeve - Wolfenstein 3d, Hexen, Duke Nukem. But the less obvious one - and one having profound influence on me as a kid - was Contra. One life - you died, then it was back to the level start. Now i realise that some people might not find this enjoyable, but there is literally nothing in Project Warlock that was conceived as means to anger the players for the sake of angering them. I wanted to evoke the emotion - fear, anger, frustration and finally exhilaration i felt as a kid when playing that title. And the exhilaration would never have been there had you just skated through the levels with occasional reload.
For me - and a lot of people who played Project Warlock - the way you feel after beating the level after numerous repetitions is just different then going through it once with the safety net of a save. But i am not judging whether the other option is bad. I simply went for that other feeling. And made sure that the levels are short enough to not be too bothersome. Alright - there is some nasty surprises, but these are there to get your blood pumping. So again - the "lives" system is coming straight from the Konami classic. And as for your progress - it's not lost - since every time you visit the workshop you save your progress. Of course it's a bit different with higher difficulty levels, but these are picked consciously.

We were monitoring all the discussions since the launch of the game and the most vocal opponents of the "no save" thing were people who never played the game, but decided to speak their mind on the subject. But this is either a non-issue or a a way less problematic one for people who actually played the game.

Obviously it is for you and i respect that, but adding an option to save right there in the game would impact every single player's experience and opinion on the game. Since - once you have an option - you just use it. And i didn't want to sacrifice the old school Contra vibe and for that reason made the choice to not include the manual saving. Hope this clears the thing a bit. And once again - i am truly sorry you didn't get to enjoy the game because of that choice.

Best Regards
Jakub
Posted June 08, 2019
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Easyone512: NO option to save the game makes it borderline unplayable for anyone with an actual life. I've played games written 'back in the day' and even they offered the option to save your place and retrrun to play later.

If you want to eliminate the 'save scum' practice - fine. There are procedures used by several games to do just that. not having any save option at all is ... beyond arrogant
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BuckshotSoftware: Obviously it is for you and i respect that, but adding an option to save right there in the game would impact every single player's experience and opinion on the game. Since - once you have an option - you just use it. And i didn't want to sacrifice the old school Contra vibe and for that reason made the choice to not include the manual saving. Hope this clears the thing a bit. And once again - i am truly sorry you didn't get to enjoy the game because of that choice.

Best Regards
Jakub
I've played several games that offered different saving schemes much like different difficulty levels. I don't have the skill or inclination these days to play any game that I lose lots of progress if I die, or I can't just stop playing whenever I want to.

Would it be so bad to implement a "Save Mode" for those of us who want to play this awesome-looking game on our own terms, while still having "Classic/Original" mode with only end-level saves?

It also leaps to mind that way back in 2000 when AvP came out for the PC, the game only had end-level saves. Reaction was harsh enough to how hard and lengthy some of the missions could be. The devs very quickly offered a solution exactly like I mention here: offering a manual save mode for those that wanted it, and retaining the original save scheme for those wanting more of a challenge.

Is there a demo that I could see if the no-save thing is as damning an issue as I feel like? Because saying "only people who haven't played the game have an issue with it" feels like a very poor response when I'm thinking of dropping $12 on something I might give up on after a couple of levels.

I mean, I guess then the game isn't "for me" after all, despite how rad it looks. Oh well. Time to fire up Hexen in GZDOOM again.
Post edited June 08, 2019 by mhoffmann
Posted June 12, 2019
I was there when the old games where coming out, and the save options, on PC, have been always always been there.
So, not sure why this design decision.

Additionally, evoking the atmosphere is one thing, but this is a game.
Something to do in your spare time and a pleasure.
Removing an option like saving progress at leisure is breaking the experience.
No. Is actually blatantly annoying.

Who told you that who played the game didn't find the decision unpleasant?

I've bought the game and found myself in the same situation.
Deinstalled after the first death. Could not bother to redo the level from scratch.
Post edited June 12, 2019 by OldOldGamer
Posted June 13, 2019
I neither can have continuous hours of gaming, but I had no trouble going through the packs of stages interrupting for the IRL stuff. Just needed to get used to the system, it's unusual, but fine.
Posted June 14, 2019
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BuckshotSoftware: Ok, first of all - sorry your experience is hindered by the lack of save. But let me back up a bit. Project Warlock was meant to evoke the old school classical games vibe - this is something that is a no brainer at this point.
The problem is the old school PC games you're honoring had save anywhere features. Wolfenstein, Doom, Hexen, etc... they all did. It was more a console platformer thing to have limited lives and no saving, but this game is not in that genre. That's why you get a lot of negative feedback, because people into those old PC FPS games think your game is for them but then are baffled it doesn't have the same saving options those games did.

I just played the first 5 levels and I thought it was okay because they are short, but yeah in general I don't like games that don't let you save anywhere because that's what PC games have mostly always had.
Posted December 28, 2019
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Easyone512: NO option to save the game makes it borderline unplayable for anyone with an actual life. I've played games written 'back in the day' and even they offered the option to save your place and retrrun to play later.

If you want to eliminate the 'save scum' practice - fine. There are procedures used by several games to do just that. not having any save option at all is ... beyond arrogant
avatar
BuckshotSoftware: Ok, first of all - sorry your experience is hindered by the lack of save. But let me back up a bit. Project Warlock was meant to evoke the old school classical games vibe - this is something that is a no brainer at this point.

The most obvious inspirations that are brought up are worn there on the sleeve - Wolfenstein 3d, Hexen, Duke Nukem. But the less obvious one - and one having profound influence on me as a kid - was Contra. One life - you died, then it was back to the level start. Now i realise that some people might not find this enjoyable, but there is literally nothing in Project Warlock that was conceived as means to anger the players for the sake of angering them. I wanted to evoke the emotion - fear, anger, frustration and finally exhilaration i felt as a kid when playing that title. And the exhilaration would never have been there had you just skated through the levels with occasional reload.
For me - and a lot of people who played Project Warlock - the way you feel after beating the level after numerous repetitions is just different then going through it once with the safety net of a save. But i am not judging whether the other option is bad. I simply went for that other feeling. And made sure that the levels are short enough to not be too bothersome. Alright - there is some nasty surprises, but these are there to get your blood pumping. So again - the "lives" system is coming straight from the Konami classic. And as for your progress - it's not lost - since every time you visit the workshop you save your progress. Of course it's a bit different with higher difficulty levels, but these are picked consciously.

We were monitoring all the discussions since the launch of the game and the most vocal opponents of the "no save" thing were people who never played the game, but decided to speak their mind on the subject. But this is either a non-issue or a a way less problematic one for people who actually played the game.

Obviously it is for you and i respect that, but adding an option to save right there in the game would impact every single player's experience and opinion on the game. Since - once you have an option - you just use it. And i didn't want to sacrifice the old school Contra vibe and for that reason made the choice to not include the manual saving. Hope this clears the thing a bit. And once again - i am truly sorry you didn't get to enjoy the game because of that choice.

Best Regards
Jakub
Sorry to resurrect an old thread but, lack of a save feature cost you a sale. Even at $5 it's just not worth it. I have my own personal reasons for requiring at least end of level save that I'm not going to get into here. Suffice it to say, It's not because I refuse to "git gud".
Posted December 29, 2019
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techmunkey: Sorry to resurrect an old thread but, lack of a save feature cost you a sale. Even at $5 it's just not worth it. I have my own personal reasons for requiring at least end of level save that I'm not going to get into here. Suffice it to say, It's not because I refuse to "git gud".
??? It has end of level saves.
Post edited December 30, 2019 by Gydion
Posted January 02, 2020
Well i enjoy the current save system as it is and i do not want optional saves because i'd be too tempted to use them, losing the unique feel of urgency that Project Warlock has.
Posted February 22, 2020
Contra had 3 lives at the start if I recall, and you didn't start the level over when you died, you respawned on the same screen area. And you had multiple continues to restart from the start of the level. So, I'm not sure what this one life thing the dev just referenced is (different game perhaps?). As someone who is currently playing through Quake (and recently played through all of Doom, Doom 2, 64 and 3, Hexen as well) the lack of a manual save feature is an odd design choice to say the least. hmm...
Post edited February 22, 2020 by soullos
Posted March 14, 2020
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Easyone512: NO option to save the game makes it borderline unplayable for anyone with an actual life. I've played games written 'back in the day' and even they offered the option to save your place and retrrun to play later.

If you want to eliminate the 'save scum' practice - fine. There are procedures used by several games to do just that. not having any save option at all is ... beyond arrogant
avatar
BuckshotSoftware: Ok, first of all - sorry your experience is hindered by the lack of save. But let me back up a bit. Project Warlock was meant to evoke the old school classical games vibe - this is something that is a no brainer at this point.

The most obvious inspirations that are brought up are worn there on the sleeve - Wolfenstein 3d, Hexen, Duke Nukem. But the less obvious one - and one having profound influence on me as a kid - was Contra. One life - you died, then it was back to the level start. Now i realise that some people might not find this enjoyable, but there is literally nothing in Project Warlock that was conceived as means to anger the players for the sake of angering them. I wanted to evoke the emotion - fear, anger, frustration and finally exhilaration i felt as a kid when playing that title. And the exhilaration would never have been there had you just skated through the levels with occasional reload.
For me - and a lot of people who played Project Warlock - the way you feel after beating the level after numerous repetitions is just different then going through it once with the safety net of a save. But i am not judging whether the other option is bad. I simply went for that other feeling. And made sure that the levels are short enough to not be too bothersome. Alright - there is some nasty surprises, but these are there to get your blood pumping. So again - the "lives" system is coming straight from the Konami classic. And as for your progress - it's not lost - since every time you visit the workshop you save your progress. Of course it's a bit different with higher difficulty levels, but these are picked consciously.

We were monitoring all the discussions since the launch of the game and the most vocal opponents of the "no save" thing were people who never played the game, but decided to speak their mind on the subject. But this is either a non-issue or a a way less problematic one for people who actually played the game.

Obviously it is for you and i respect that, but adding an option to save right there in the game would impact every single player's experience and opinion on the game. Since - once you have an option - you just use it. And i didn't want to sacrifice the old school Contra vibe and for that reason made the choice to not include the manual saving. Hope this clears the thing a bit. And once again - i am truly sorry you didn't get to enjoy the game because of that choice.

Best Regards
Jakub
Having been one of the people who finished the game I think the lives system was needless. I only perma-died once and the most it did was make me a little more pedantic in hunting secrets, but the mostly 2D nature of space in Warlock made this a tad boring.

I think perma-death belongs in the highest difficulty for those masochists who play Blood on Extra Crispy. If I wanted an arcade experience like in Contra I'd play Touhou or a Rouge-like.
Posted March 15, 2020
The save system cost you a sale with me. Sorry, I have young children and sometimes have to drop what I’m doing. Adults who have real lives and responsibilities need options to be able to game as a hobby, and you aren’t providing any. It’s a shame, cause this looks good otherwise.
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Project WarlockNo Save option make game borderline unplayable.(16 posts)(16 posts)
(16 posts)