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This game needs love to be a great game.

1) I have barely started playing and have found things that need attention. The first is with the early bear cave quest. At the time this quest is found the player is about level 2 and most builds will get oneshotted by the bear, especially a wizard as the only spell that could work was nerfed in 1.04. The originator of the quest clearly says "He is packing up right away and leaving" implying in the strongest way that this quest needs to be solved now or never. But most builds cannot possibly get by the bear so the player wastes a huge amount of effort for nothing. The devs need to fix every inconsistency like this that needlessly frustrates the player.

2) To make this game playable all voices from the players avatar needs to be removed or made fully context sensitive. My avatar was saying the stupidest things at the stupidest times. This isn't 1992. The player character should have a voice and it should say meaningful and appropriate things Gee, my two companions just died right beside me but my avatar has nothing to say. When I go to disarm a trap they say the same thing over and over. Do it right or just dont do it at all.

3) The game world is completely static and I mean static. Lead a wolf to a NPC and the wolf and the NPC ignore each other like they don't exist. Wolves stay in exactly the same spot. The bear never leaves or even moves in the cave.

4) I am so sick of killing wolves in games .... its been done over and over and over and over and over ..... and the Wolves always attack whether it is suicide for them or not.

5) Mask of the Betrayer was a great game partly because the game started you out with full power and gave you interesting things to do with that power. I see no indication of the genius of that game here. I wish that Obsidian spent this time actually finishing MofB and letting us take down the Wall of the Faithless. The depths of that game weren't even close to developed.

6) Having NPCs as repositories of past life experiences is great but not if they only do that. You should be able to talk to them too. And early on in the game you see ghosts but can't talk to them, but you can in the bear cave.

7) I love that XPs are not gained much by killing stuff ..... but there is still way too much killing stuff in the game. Every wolf attacks and probably every outlaw attacks instead of just robbing you. It's sad that the devs didn't follow though and make combat only 20% of the game instead of 80% ...... but alas gamers feel cheated if they don't kill at least a million beings in a game.

8) I wasted 1/2 hour trying to save my first 2 companions from death. Tried getting them to full health and other things ...waste of time ...... the game needs to tell the player that they cannot be saved. They hinted this but they also hinted that there is more story for the female companion regarding her sister. I was conflicted and wasted a lot of time needlessly.
Post edited April 19, 2015 by Sirandar888
1. That early bear cave is one of my favorite parts of the game. I was a wizard, and it did take me 7 or 8 tries, but I beat it. Was a great feeling when it happened. Which spell are you referring to being nerfed in 1.04?

8. Hmm. I had them in my party the entire game (except when having to do some character quests).
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Sirandar888: 1) I have barely started playing and have found things that need attention. The first is with the early bear cave quest. At the time this quest is found the player is about level 2 and most builds will get oneshotted by the bear, especially a wizard as the only spell that could work was nerfed in 1.04. The originator of the quest clearly says "He is packing up right away and leaving" implying in the strongest way that this quest needs to be solved now or never. But most builds cannot possibly get by the bear so the player wastes a huge amount of effort for nothing. The devs need to fix every inconsistency like this that needlessly frustrates the player.

...

8) I wasted 1/2 hour trying to save my first 2 companions from death. Tried getting them to full health and other things ...waste of time ...... the game needs to tell the player that they cannot be saved. They hinted this but they also hinted that there is more story for the female companion regarding her sister. I was conflicted and wasted a lot of time needlessly.
***SPOILERS***

I think your experience of the game so far is very unlike most people's experience. I tried the bear my first playthrough, found I could not beat it after dying a couple times, and moved on to beat it later. It did not even occur to me to try and save Heodan and Calisca, as I thought the scripted nature of the event made it obvious they had to die. I thought it rather good writing of Obsidian to actually make me care about Calisca before killing her, rather than just making her a flat sort of red shirt NPC.

I didn't notice the other things you mentioned. However, almost exactly contrary to you, I did not like that there is no combat XP but I enjoy all the combat. I don't think Obsidian will be able to please everyone on that score, obviously.

Non sequitur, you should really mark a post like that for spoilers.

Edit: kmh12177 is screwing with you, they have to die.
Post edited April 19, 2015 by darkness58ec
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kmh12177: 8. Hmm. I had them in my party the entire game (except when having to do some character quests).
I believe he's referring to Calisca and Heodan.

Anyway:

1) Disagree with this. Part of the idea of the game was that you could actually wander into areas that were above your ability at the time. This is one of them. Seriously, your character is alone and he/she thinks it would be wise to take on a full grown bear? I disagree that the quest giver is implying it's now or never. I actually just assumed he meant he was headed back to Gilded Vale, which coincidentally is where your character is supposed to be heading as well.

2) Agree with this.

3) Agree in principle, but the alternative is to have the critters wander around, which could lead you to a situation similar to what you complain about in point 1. Specifically, you'd have a high chance of encountering something you cannot handle and cannot escape from.

4) Better than rats, IMO, which is a trope that pretty much originated with the games on which PoE is based.

5) Agreed. This game has serious potential, but it's almost like they decided to give the story a back burner and concentrate on the combat mechanics. Which is a shame because the combat is... tedious.

6) These are the ones with the yellow background behind their names, I assume? If so, those are the backer NPCs. Just ignore them. Or, better yet, you can kill them for loot in many spots where no one can see you.

7) Agreed here as well. I find it almost amusing though that part of the reason Sawyer wanted to remove XP for kills was to eliminate 'degenerative gameplay' such as hobo-murder. The irony is that you end up killing everything anyway either for the loot/ingredients or because it's practically impossible to avoid combat if you want to fully explore the maps. And then they knuckled under and hand out XP for disabling traps and opening locks as well as kill XP for the first few critters of a particular type until the bestiary entry is complete. The mind boggles on that.

8) I thought it was pretty obvious that they couldn't be saved, considering you enter an unavoidable cutscene and they end up dead afterwards with no body to revive and just a couple loot bags. Not sure why you thought that was avoidable at all.

I find there are a number of other things that are annoying about the game, such as the engagement system. It looks like a good idea on paper, but I find in game it's bloody annoying and a really poor mechanic. There are other gripes as well. Don't get me wrong though, I don't regret backing the game one bit, but it's unfortunately not nearly as great as I'd hoped it would be.
You have a lot of opinions, sir!

***Spoilers may follow***
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Sirandar888: 1) I have barely started playing and have found things that need attention. The first is with the early bear cave quest. At the time this quest is found the player is about level 2 and most builds will get oneshotted by the bear, especially a wizard as the only spell that could work was nerfed in 1.04. The originator of the quest clearly says "He is packing up right away and leaving" implying in the strongest way that this quest needs to be solved now or never. But most builds cannot possibly get by the bear so the player wastes a huge amount of effort for nothing. The devs need to fix every inconsistency like this that needlessly frustrates the player.
This area is not meant to be cleared the first time you pass through. It is more like real life, that way.
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Sirandar888: 2) To make this game playable all voices from the players avatar needs to be removed or made fully context sensitive. My avatar was saying the stupidest things at the stupidest times. This isn't 1992. The player character should have a voice and it should say meaningful and appropriate things Gee, my two companions just died right beside me but my avatar has nothing to say. When I go to disarm a trap they say the same thing over and over. Do it right or just dont do it at all.
yelps are yelps. I can't think of any game that does unique audio and coding for every box you need to open. The game is better with some kind of audio feedback. That's why they are there.
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Sirandar888: 3) The game world is completely static and I mean static. Lead a wolf to a NPC and the wolf and the NPC ignore each other like they don't exist. Wolves stay in exactly the same spot. The bear never leaves or even moves in the cave.
In the game, some mobs move around. You just haven't seen enough of it yet.
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Sirandar888: 4) I am so sick of killing wolves in games .... its been done over and over and over and over and over ..... and the Wolves always attack whether it is suicide for them or not.
It matters not to me whether I be sorting lentils or peas.
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Sirandar888: 5) Mask of the Betrayer was a great game partly because the game started you out with full power and gave you interesting things to do with that power. I see no indication of the genius of that game here. I wish that Obsidian spent this time actually finishing MofB and letting us take down the Wall of the Faithless. The depths of that game weren't even close to developed.
Mod it yourself, if you are so inclined. I fail to see a connection.
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Sirandar888: 6) Having NPCs as repositories of past life experiences is great but not if they only do that. You should be able to talk to them too. And early on in the game you see ghosts but can't talk to them, but you can in the bear cave.
Lot of threads around here discuss the gold NPCs. I'm not going to re-explain it here. As far as ghostly interaction is concerned, just wait till you've put in a few more hours.
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Sirandar888: 7) I love that XPs are not gained much by killing stuff ..... but there is still way too much killing stuff in the game. Every wolf attacks and probably every outlaw attacks instead of just robbing you. It's sad that the devs didn't follow though and make combat only 20% of the game instead of 80% ...... but alas gamers feel cheated if they don't kill at least a million beings in a game.
No way to make everybody happy, on this one.
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Sirandar888: 8) I wasted 1/2 hour trying to save my first 2 companions from death. Tried getting them to full health and other things ...waste of time ...... the game needs to tell the player that they cannot be saved. They hinted this but they also hinted that there is more story for the female companion regarding her sister. I was conflicted and wasted a lot of time needlessly.
There is a mod that allows you to keep them, I hear. I won't add a mild spoiler here, you can find it (soon) yourself.
There was a quest giver for the bear cave? I always wandered in before I found anyone to give me such a quest.
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paladin181: There was a quest giver for the bear cave? I always wandered in before I found anyone to give me such a quest.
I did that once. I think when you wander in first, then the quest giver leaves.
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Sirandar888: This game needs love to be a great game.

1) I have barely started playing and have found things that need attention. The first is with the early bear cave quest. At the time this quest is found the player is about level 2 and most builds will get oneshotted by the bear, especially a wizard as the only spell that could work was nerfed in 1.04. The originator of the quest clearly says "He is packing up right away and leaving" implying in the strongest way that this quest needs to be solved now or never. But most builds cannot possibly get by the bear so the player wastes a huge amount of effort for nothing. The devs need to fix every inconsistency like this that needlessly frustrates the player.
Well, I remember the dialogues and is around the idea "He is already death" or at least that was my impression, and after 6-9 tries one can have the Old-RPG-sense that, this cave is not for me yet (at least in the hardest setting).
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Sirandar888: 2) To make this game playable all voices from the players avatar needs to be removed or made fully context sensitive. My avatar was saying the stupidest things at the stupidest times. This isn't 1992. The player character should have a voice and it should say meaningful and appropriate things Gee, my two companions just died right beside me but my avatar has nothing to say. When I go to disarm a trap they say the same thing over and over. Do it right or just dont do it at all.
I'm not sure that could be possible with the 4M they got for the game. And the PC has history, one you are free to choose. Is not a silent Link or Crono. And even modern games still say similar things.

Sure, actor-voice in real time can have a big impact, there is a big council happening in this game, similar to the one from Dragon Ages Origins, and in the moment of the twist you miss the cinematic, however the written in this game is superb for minor, average and important meetings that frankly don't ask too much to the modern RPG with full actor-voice work.
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Sirandar888: 3) The game world is completely static and I mean static. Lead a wolf to a NPC and the wolf and the NPC ignore each other like they don't exist. Wolves stay in exactly the same spot. The bear never leaves or even moves in the cave.
at least in the forest areas, hostiles creatures will attack other types of creatures, though there is a moment where will be "chaos" in one of the main cities, the things will be "normal" for you.
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Sirandar888: 5) Mask of the Betrayer was a great game partly because the game started you out with full power and gave you interesting things to do with that power. I see no indication of the genius of that game here. I wish that Obsidian spent this time actually finishing MofB and letting us take down the Wall of the Faithless. The depths of that game weren't even close to developed.
With the NWN2 expansion we speak about Faerun, professional writers have been working fro that world by decades.
Pillar of Eternity has his own setting and probably not more than half decade of work,
Second, personally I hate the concept: "Ups, I did that, I don't know how to fix/kill the spirit-eater" that is handled in the MoTB and the "evil" ending is just ridiculous.
Third, though you are a MacGuffin in the history, you are not the only one with the gift/curse and said gift/curse has a very defined area of work, but will not say more as will be spoiler.
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Sirandar888: 8) I wasted 1/2 hour trying to save my first 2 companions from death. Tried getting them to full health and other things ...waste of time ...... the game needs to tell the player that they cannot be saved. They hinted this but they also hinted that there is more story for the female companion regarding her sister. I was conflicted and wasted a lot of time needlessly.
Why the game need to do that? For me is ruining the experience. If you don't know the destiny of your companions, even if its in the "tutorial" and probably are red-shirt, is better than a big warning. Maybe will die, maybe will be left in your hometown, maybe will be until the end, maybe will become so angry with you that will try to kill you, or maybe could be lost before the final battle begin.
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kmh12177: 8. Hmm. I had them in my party the entire game (except when having to do some character quests).
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darkness58ec: kmh12177 is screwing with you, they have to die.
By design, yes, but should you wish it, they don't have to. The game has a console. Before you exit the cave at Cilant Lis, open the console and type 'manageparty'. Take Calisca and Heodan out of the party and exit the cave alone. Do the exterior of Cilant Lis and then go south to Valewood (the Cilant Lis area is scripted to kill them). When you get to Valewood use the console to put them back into your party.
1) I have barely started playing and have found things that need attention. The first is with the early bear cave quest. At the time this quest is found the player is about level 2 and most builds will get oneshotted by the bear, especially a wizard as the only spell that could work was nerfed in 1.04. The originator of the quest clearly says "He is packing up right away and leaving" implying in the strongest way that this quest needs to be solved now or never. But most builds cannot possibly get by the bear so the player wastes a huge amount of effort for nothing. The devs need to fix every inconsistency like this that needlessly frustrates the player.

No!
The bear is totally fine and the questgiver tells you not to go there because the bear is very powerful.

3) The game world is completely static and I mean static. Lead a wolf to a NPC and the wolf and the NPC ignore each other like they don't exist. Wolves stay in exactly the same spot. The bear never leaves or even moves in the cave.

Such is the nature of these kinds of games.

8) I wasted 1/2 hour trying to save my first 2 companions from death. Tried getting them to full health and other things ...waste of time ...... the game needs to tell the player that they cannot be saved. They hinted this but they also hinted that there is more story for the female companion regarding her sister. I was conflicted and wasted a lot of time needlessly.

No, the game does not need to tell you this.
How would you know?
Also you can explore and find her sister in the game.
Post edited April 19, 2015 by AiCola
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darkness58ec: kmh12177 is screwing with you, they have to die.
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Hickory: By design, yes, but should you wish it, they don't have to. The game has a console. Before you exit the cave at Cilant Lis, open the console and type 'manageparty'. Take Calisca and Heodan out of the party and exit the cave alone. Do the exterior of Cilant Lis and then go south to Valewood (the Cilant Lis area is scripted to kill them). When you get to Valewood use the console to put them back into your party.
This.

I mainly did it because Heodan is the only game-created Rogue companion in the game, and I didn't want to create my own companions at the inn on my first playthrough. And I'm glad I did, otherwise I would never have realized how damn good rogues are in this game. And really, I only kept Heodan - Calisca was quickly replaced by another fighter companion (Paladin) that you get shortly after ...

As to the bear, like I said I had a lone wizard pc, and I beat it after many tries. The many initial deaths I had allowed me to find out which strategies WOULDN'T work, until I developed a strategy that did. Even then it takes a bit of luck (the luck of the roll on every action: hit, miss - crit, graze - etc). I ended up casting a surprise oil slick on it, then fan of flames as many times as I could before I got mauled - which was sometimes 1 hit from the bear, sometimes 2. That was on "Normal". I think I could have beat them on "hard" as well, just would have had to die a bunch before I figured out a winning strategy. To me, the challenge and development of winning strategies for very tough encounters is a large part of the fun of the game. For seemingly impossible battles, the placement of your characters prior to engagement is crucial.

The questgiver is at a tent at the very south end of the map, and upon entering the cave you further the quest - but I don't think it's required to actually fight the bear(s) ..... idr. Then you finish it up however you like in the next town.
The thing with the bear is just off. If you turn on the developer commentary, it is said the whole goal was to design an area that you can just blaze through on the main path or explore and discover some quests and present some, you would have to come back for later. There is even this spot you'll need a grappling hook for, something you can't have yet, so you'll definitely need to come back if you plan on seeing everything.

I killed the bear together with Edér and Aloth. Honton lives in Gilded Vale, so you'll miss nothing.
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Santiago: There is even this spot you'll need a grappling hook for, something you can't have yet, so you'll definitely need to come back if you plan on seeing everything.
No you don't. If you don't have a grappling hook, other skills/abilities will compensate. I got up without one.

Regarding the bear, Nonton even warns you about going in. I don't see where all the fuss is coming from. It's pretty obvious from your conversation (IF you heed it), that you're going to need help.
Post edited April 19, 2015 by Hickory
Greatness is something Sony Playstation 4 wants to achieve in its 'Greatness Awaits' campaign.


Pillars of Eternity is going for something greater...

--- like Masterpiece.


:)

New players are going to love Pillars of Eternity.

:)
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Sirandar888: 3) The game world is completely static and I mean static. Lead a wolf to a NPC and the wolf and the NPC ignore each other like they don't exist. Wolves stay in exactly the same spot. The bear never leaves or even moves in the cave.
I have witnessed a strange thing. As I was fighting a group of ogres, an elder stag (neutral creature) joined the battle attacking the ogres !

But I agree, this game is good but it's no Baldur's Gate or Arcanum.

The combat system and the spells are not very inspired. The lack of immunities leads to absurd situations like you can hold a dragon with a level 1 cleric spell. Also the combat result is very predictable after fighting a number of battles. The special abilities of creatures are not life threatening like it was poison, petrification or the green slime's save vs death or die in BG. In the end it leads to easier and duller combat encounters as you progress.