Since i made the mistake in Prodeus forum NOW i am quite sure.
Please remember when you buy this game what kind of dev / publisher
behavior you support. After my mistake i didn t wanted to make another negative
post, but since GoG Galaxy "suggested" me this game, i feel obligated to make
potentional customers "re" aware of what happend.

https://www.pcgamer.com/xcom-like-phoenix-point-will-be-an-epic-store-exclusive-for-one-year/
(i know PCgamer just bear with it, just a breadgrump from where you can search on)

If i recall right this game was fully backed by kickstarers and said Developer decided to
go EGS exclusive AFTER the game was fully backed and prepaid. With that screwing over
all the people the prepaid him for this game, so it could happen in the first place.

this time around a phrased the topic as question as well so after confirmation of this
it can be marked as "SOLVED"

Pretty sure this time, i am in the right subforum for this. Oh and no i don t want to spread negativity
i just want a better industry for the players to come, so that such things as this here not happen.
Or being "normalized" like other bad practices we already have to deal with.

They released a borked early access version on the Epic Games Store, offered full refunds to backers and are providing keys now for this full release on steam and gog if you stuck with your pledge. While it is easy to get swept up in the emotional sentiment of pure negativity. As someone who followed this game through it's short exclusive stint, the developer released a large amount of updates and supported this game through it's entirety on the Epic Games Store. It is my belief that the exclusivity deal helped them to not only make a better game but also to pay their employees and solidify their economic security while they worked on this game. That is capitalism and I don't like it either but it's childish to hold grudges for people being involved in it. If you have any legitimate complaints, like Snapshot not paying their workers, or stealing money from backers, I am all ears. Alas you don't have any such arguments to make and your grievances are pointless and banal.

Perhaps it would suit you better to argue for a behemoth like steam who sits on a dragon's worth of gold to support devlopers, rather than knock EGS with "trademark gamer rage" for doing so. I only care about the quality of the game and Epic's money undoubtedly helped make the game better.

It was backed on Fig, not Kickstarter. And the amount even was enough for two stretch goals.
Nevertheless, I am convinced that Gollop severely underestimated the amount of work and staff needed to fulfil all promises in time.

I backed the game in January 2018, and I was severely pissed when Gollop announced the EGS exclusivity deal. It was even more disappointing because we were able to play all the backer builds. At least we got EGS keys, and the first 5 DLCs as a “compensation”, plus the GOG/Steam key at release. It was quite another disappointment when only the Steam release was announced, and Snapshot Games took their sweet time with announcing the simultaneous GOG, as promised to all backers from day 1. I remember asking them directly on Twitter an on Reddit if they forgot to mention GOG by accident, and their non-answer was a mere “We really like GOG”. At least they lived up to the promise that PP is getting released on both platforms at the same time.

At last!

I’m looking forward to finally play the GOG version, but I know that I’m not going to back any of their games ever again. Behemoth or not, these buying sprees of large corporations are anti-competitive regardless of how gigantic the corporations are. It’s fine if you only care about the quality of the game, but it’s equally justified that backers were disappointed of Snapshot Game’s exclusivity move.

There is no doubt that the EGS money helped the studio to invest a lot more manpower and time into improving the game, and from that perspective it’s understandable they, being a small studio, struggling with producing the promised product because of misjudging the amount of work, took the money from EGS. And corporations like EGS are well aware of this, and take advantage of the situation. No matter how common it is, it’s still bad business practice to basically bribe small, financially often endangered studios into dumping their original financiers. Steam, Epic, the platform doesn’t matter. It’s also destroying competitiveness because throwing a few millon bucks at a studio regardless of sold copies to create a gated community is always bad for competition.

As Fallen Hero has said my only concern is if the the game is good. I dont care too much about the Epic exclusivity deals. It only helped fund the game further. On top of that that they gave all backers their store key of choice. Win win as far as I am concerned.

What I would like to know, is the game good? There are 2 reviews here on GOG (at the time of writing this) and both say the game is 1 star. Now, is this because they really think the game is bad or are they just review bombing because of the Epic games store deal?

I am going to do the logical thing and watch some lets plays and , hopefully, unbiased reviews. :)

That's what is to be said.

Yeah. That kind of review is infuriating, and helps absolutely no one. The only ones that are more annoying are the tech support tickets that get posted as reviews, you know the type..."1 star, game doesn't run on my PC (that is 10 years old and never saw a new video card driver installed since it's inception)"

For what it's worth...
I've only played a few hours when it came out, and back in those days it was rather buggy...
It's basically a XCOM-like, closer to the original games from the 90ies.
You fight mutated seafood while the remants of humanity beat each other over the head.
It's got a few good ideas, some interesting mechanics, and decent visuals.
The problem is, the balancing is odd, the gameplay loop has some VERY odd decisions, and XCOM2 - War of the Chosen is simply the better game, mechanically.

It's comparable in part to the old XCOM: Apocalypse, but on a smaller scale.
In a nutshell, you have 3 factions with unique weapons, units and vehicles, and you can do diplomacy and help them.
Counterintuitively, the best way to handle them is to buddy up with one of them, and mercilessly fuck the other 2 with a rusty spoon, raiding their settlements for guns, research, vehicles and resources.
The game also has a doomsday clock (which is even more annoying than the one from XCOM2), several units that have mind control (on the enemy side, of course) and some very iffy action point mechanics where you can lose action points by getting hit in the wrong body part.

The enemy scaling and progression was off back then, but I hear they patched the most egregious bugs and tuned the progression by now. It's probably a perfect 7/10 by now, okay for fans of the genre, but won't win over any people not interested in it, and there's probably better titles in the genre as well.

I dislike all these kind of reviews as well. They are are not completely about the game. Business practice dislikes can be talked about in forums and help ticket like reviews can be sent to GOG or posted at the forums. Those definitely dont need to be front page game reviews. They dont help anyone decide if the game is good.

Thanks for your thoughts on the game. I have to confess I am not a huge player of the X-com games and have them in my GOG library un played at this time. I have played games like Phantom Doctrine and BattleTech (I think these are similar to X-com like play) and while I enjoyed them they did not have me 100 percent hooked. So, I am not sure if this is a good indicator of me enjoying a game like X-com or Phoenix point or not. However, I love Wasteland 2 and 3 so it is not a dislike of turn based tactical games. Maybe it is just the overall RPG structure that hooks me?

Your review breaks it down nicely and I am probably better off playing the X com ones I have purchased and wait on this one. Though I am still tentatively interested in this title.

The current sale price is pretty good and I dont begrudge them the choices they made. I actually respect them for giving the backers all the DLC and choice of Steam/ GOG key after. It seems like they made good use of the Epic money and hopefully they continue to make the game better.

You're the reason for these anti-consumer practises.
This game was financed by backers and a lot of backers complained about the exclusive deal. These people PAID for this game and you insulting them, talking about "gamer rage" instead of having any arguments. This game wouldn't exist without the free loan of "raging gamer". I fully support these gamer, who financed this game.

Do you know who paid the employees before Epic? All these "raging gamer" paid the salary.

They got a refund? Okay, here is the deal: Please send me $100 as a free loan and you will get your money back after 3-4 years. Is this acceptable?

Also, don't use Steam as a straw man. Epic isn't a brave little shop, who is fighting a "behemoth". It's a large company, who got a lot of hate for their anti-consumer practises.

I already played Phoenix Point last months and it's a HUGE dissapointment. There are only 6 alien enemies in the whole game. Yeah, the base enemies are getting different weapons and colors, but you're basically fighting the same 5 enemies in every mission (crabs, tritons, sirens, chirons and worms) .

This game doesn't even have combat music. I advise everyone to watch some Let's Plays on Youtube and listen to the music during missions. There is no action like X"COM 1-2" or tense atmosphere like "UFO Enemy Unknown".

The trailers are hugely misleading, because you never see these camera angles ingame. The trailer is amazing, while the gameplay is slow and boring. Inform yourself and read critics about this game. Phoenix Point had a lot of potential, but most people were dissapointed. The community is already dead. Check reddit or the deloper boards, there are barely any active users. Buy this game on sale for $10 AFTER they completed the remaining DLCs.

Many things in this thread... excuse me if i allow myself to throw my two cents here about various points:

1) pointless reviews bombing that gives no useful or relevant information to potential customers: i'm clearly not fan of those... i prefer to be told about the pros and cons, the shortcomings and flaws of a game before spending 25 bucks (or, obviously, double such amount)
however, folks nowadays do that all the time, even though there is now on gog a verified owner flag; i guess it's within someone's free speech right to rant aloud considering they paid for such right... even if it"s not smart or very informative (on that i agree with you)

how many times i saw bad reviews about a product 'movie, book, game) on amazon because a shitty third party postal delivery service delivered the product one day too late ? it's not relevant to the product itself or its content... Well on phoenix point we are not in this kind of mindless rant though...

2) "without EGS money, poor devs could not have paid salaries or had enough time and ressource to improve the game"
on this one, i cannot follow you people who use this angle of justification. Why ?

- gollop and snapshot games initially managed to overfund themselves far above their claimed initial goal through crowdfunding on FIG
- even with overkill funding, they still needed to set up their own online store to sell preorders of the game (on platforms stores they already KNEW at that time they wouldnt even deliver at the initial release) to gather more money without even having delivering anything public yet (which falls within the "scamming" category afaic)
- then came to EGS to negotiate a juicy deal by using FIG's backers money and own online store's preorders as a LEVERAGE to secure even additional funding for one full year of salary and even more
- then play oblivious and clueless about why people are unhappy of the backstabbing they just did and look down upon folks asking refund
- then even decide to make a public statement that, instead of being apologetinc, was pure bragging and spite (basically they said that they didnt care refunding even up to 100% of fig backers and store preorder as EGS deal would still leave them with huge load of cash even after that)

now after all this, overkill crowdfunding plus additional nackup money from own store's preorders and even EGS deal, if you cannot deliver more than half baked, alpha grade unbalanced and unoptimized product afterone year, i dont want to hear about "we couldnt imagine it would take so much time and work and effort to fill up our project's goals and status"... For me, you are just having a blatant case of BAD product management and financial management (reminds me of Double Fine here)

3) considering the guy at the pilot seat of the game design is the famed julian gollop, who is basically the father of turn based tactical whole game genre, and considering the game still re-use much of the design advances and breakthroughs brought by firaxis through their xcom reboots that sort of installed some new "norms" in other tactical games... i find the whole result disappointing and far from what was to be expected from such brilliant mind...

4) 50% lauinch discount seems nice... well, i have a scoop for you: it's NOT ! most games, AAA, AA or indies, after already one full year on the market usually already drop their price tag by that amount/% as a sort of de facto norm... So such 50% launch discount is in no way acceptable even as a moral apologetic gesture, it's within the usual flow of the industry nowadays... If you compare to the undiscounted pricetag for integral XCom 2 (with expansion and DLCs), and said XCOM 2 full collection's launch price on gog (20€ compared to 25 for phoenix point), as for now, XCom2+War of the Chosen is by most tactical gamers considered as the challenger/standard set in this genre... Phoenix Point is so far a huge lackluster

Even Paradox Inflated price on Battletech's expansions still leave Battletech a better game (despite its many flaws), if i use Btech's state only 1 year after its initial release (so, 1.5 patch) a way better package overall... if you consider the constant free updates, regardlessof overpriced expansions, up to 1.9 through the second year of the product... it's still not in favor of Phoenix Point

So far, Phoenix Point doesn't have any convincing or redeeming points, as a game... and i'm not even considering all the legitimate drama/uproar about the backstage's breach of moral trust that goes with this game's story. It's outmatched in design polish, in content, in price attractiveness, by several games on the market: XCom 2+WotC, Battletech, BSG Deadlock, Phantom Doctrine... Hell, even good old firaxis reboot's XCom 1+Enemy Within is still a serious challenger/contender both on price, design/balance and content...

People, just calm down, there are worse problems in the world. If you don't agree, just take your money and do another thing with it. If you don't care, enjoy the game. And if the game is not what you expected then say so, but do not hate it simply because something deviates slightly from the established route, which is also one of the BASIC and main RISK of this type of campaign, so...
I don't like these practices either, but there really isn't much to complain about if you think about it.
I will never understand why people don't quite understand that video games are a business like any other. Usually you order food in a restaurant and it is not the same as in the menu, different size, less of this and more of that, you buy something that does not work as you were told, that does not look like in the television commercial... but with video games people take it personally.

I also backed it in FIG, at first the play bothered me, but hey they didn't do anything weird, they could well have said "we aren't going to launch it this year, just wait a little more" and many people would have said "take your time it does not matter". Instead they launched the game on Epic (better financing for them), the possibility of playing before for us and another people (since they gave us a key and the dlc, don't forget this), as well as being able to get our money back if we did not agree. And then with the full release in all stores they give us our key (as promised) so... There's no point for a complain, not a real one, maybe is not the best play? of course is not, but I felt a lot worse when a few days after the end of the FIG campaign (in which they said that the game would be released soon, I don't remember when, but a few months later) they reported that it would be released at the end of the following year... And there is definitely a point to complain, because they insisted a lot in "hurry up, only a few days to get the game and extra content before full release" (something like that) when they knew the won't be releasing it in few months.

I don't want to argue or deny anyone's point of view, nor do I say that I have the only and true. But this is a business, and much of the hatred is for Epic, we could also complain when the game we want doesn't appear on GoG and only does on Steam, or when we have already bought it on Steam and they release it on GoG months later without warning... And I don't see anyone complaining about that, but if Epic is named everyone blind attacks.
This is just business, like any other.

As they have already explained the subject a little, I will be more direct. If the games you mention do not convince you (Battletech, the new XCOMs from Firaxis) this game, with its differences, is more of the same, turn-based strategy, base management, and all that, what you already know about those others games ... so I wouldn't recommend it to you, although the game is fine, (I played my version on the Epic Store, and now I've just started the GoG version), but it's not your style apparently.
If you like Wasteland or the original Fallout, definitely what makes you like those games is its RPG side, Phoenix Point only has turn-based strategy in common with those games.

Thanks for your input. That is where I was heading based on these conversations about what the game has to offer. It is not so much, is it bad game but is it one I will enjoy. Since I tend to lean to wards RPGs like FO 1 and 2, WL, Planescape Torment, etc this title will probably just end up sitting un played, or played very little. This just based on my past experience with similar games.

That's not true. Just look at Amazon or Google reviews.
People will let you know if your food sucks or your product didn't work properly.

Are there bigger problems? Sure.
Does it mean you shouldn't critic anything before ending world hunger? No. It is important to call out misbehaviour.

There is also a huge misunderstanding: Nobody complains, because a developer chooses Epic over other plattforms. You can find a lot of exclusive games without any complains. Whenever there is a shitstorm, there is a reason behind it.

People complain about Phoenix Point, because it was financed by backers, who took the risk (there are kickstarter, who never deliver anything). These backer are the reason this game exists and the developer were able to feed their families.

Maybe you weren't affected by this decision, but there are backers, who waited 1 year to play this game on Steam. And guess what? The game is on sale now. So, everyone got a better deal than backers, who funded this game.

I totally agree with you in this subject. But many of this backers (I'm a backer of this game, and I'm not saying that there's something wrong about the people who do) are the ones who probably when another game is launched on Steam or GoG after being on Epic for a period of time, request a discount "because the game is not new anymore", and it's exactly what they have done here, which has harm us, backers, of course, agree with that, I only think that people has to be consistent with what they asks for, and not "in this way with this game, but with this one do it this other way because it doesn't suit me".

But cannot agree with the "they waited 1 year to play the game on Steam" because they could have played it before on Epic, if they choose not to do it, the only reason I can think of is "i hate" Epic, now 1 year just pass, so the game is in fact old.
It is as if today I buy an Xbox one X, and tomorrow they put it on sale with a big drop off price for the launch of Series X, I can't complain about being late to the party.
I agree with a lot of the thing you all said, the only thing I can't stand is why many gamers took this bussiness like something personal, all that stuff about "i'm the one feeding the developers family so I own them" it's pretty... dunno, weird i guess.
But I agree with lotta of what you said already.
Don't wanna argue or something, just putting my two cents in the matter.

And I agree with you, I had not thought about this, there is a moral prejudice as you had not this discount while waiting like others, or even more.