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Pathfinder: Wrath of the RighteousGame does not promote/reward exploring - And loot problems(7 posts)(7 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted September 26, 2021
I've been a huge fan of Kingmaker. The reward for exploring and pumping your perception skill high enough to find some really rare and powerful items made the game more fun (at least for me). One of the biggest selling points of any crpg - besides its story ofc - should always be itemization, and exploring the world to find hidden treasures. The moment you stumble upon a secret cache and find that awesome weapon or armor is just epic. Or you are face to face with an almost unbeatable foe, but you manage to kill it. When the fight was challenging and it drove you insane, but in the end you still triumphed over your enemy is already extremly satisfactory. So we CRPG players are looking for strong and challenging encounters. But, we also want loot as a reward.

Wrath fails to deliver here in my eyes - compared to Kingmaker.

Almost 80-90% of the loot you find in the game by exploring and making a successful perception check consists of ingridients or some trash for the vendor. Is this a cooking simulator or a full fledged fantasy CRPG where awesome loot and its distribution should be a huge part of the game?

For example:

The best weapon for my build I actually didnt find but bought from the vendor. That should not be possible. The vendors should be there to fill in temporarily. So for a total of 3 acts (!) I didn't stumble upon one single weapon upgrade for my build.

Even very difficult encounters (for example the lvl 20 dude in Lost Chapel) isn't even worth killing besides for xp and challenge. That thing didn't drop one single item. Again, a level 20 monster you encounter when you are around level 7-8.

Kingmaker did execute this part way better than Wrath, unfortunately.

So please, try to fix the loot system, and make exploring and killing difficult monsters rewarding again. Else, I actually (besides some builds that require it) dont even really see a reason to pump up my perception skill and might even skip certain mobs because of "no loot policy" in my future runs.

Thanks

PS: I'm no native english speaker, so please pardon my english skills.
Posted September 26, 2021
avatar
cal1s: I've been a huge fan of Kingmaker. The reward for exploring and pumping your perception skill high enough to find some really rare and powerful items made the game more fun (at least for me). One of the biggest selling points of any crpg - besides its story ofc - should always be itemization, and exploring the world to find hidden treasures. The moment you stumble upon a secret cache and find that awesome weapon or armor is just epic. Or you are face to face with an almost unbeatable foe, but you manage to kill it. When the fight was challenging and it drove you insane, but in the end you still triumphed over your enemy is already extremly satisfactory. So we CRPG players are looking for strong and challenging encounters. But, we also want loot as a reward.

Wrath fails to deliver here in my eyes - compared to Kingmaker.

Almost 80-90% of the loot you find in the game by exploring and making a successful perception check consists of ingridients or some trash for the vendor. Is this a cooking simulator or a full fledged fantasy CRPG where awesome loot and its distribution should be a huge part of the game?

For example:

The best weapon for my build I actually didnt find but bought from the vendor. That should not be possible. The vendors should be there to fill in temporarily. So for a total of 3 acts (!) I didn't stumble upon one single weapon upgrade for my build.

Even very difficult encounters (for example the lvl 20 dude in Lost Chapel) isn't even worth killing besides for xp and challenge. That thing didn't drop one single item. Again, a level 20 monster you encounter when you are around level 7-8.

Kingmaker did execute this part way better than Wrath, unfortunately.

So please, try to fix the loot system, and make exploring and killing difficult monsters rewarding again. Else, I actually (besides some builds that require it) dont even really see a reason to pump up my perception skill and might even skip certain mobs because of "no loot policy" in my future runs.

Thanks

PS: I'm no native english speaker, so please pardon my english skills.
I hope you do not expect faster/more replies here than over there, Menthur. I like WotR so much more than Kingmaker, but I can understand your arguments.

I noticed very quick how the maps are so well designed, that you do not instantly notice how linear they are. But they are definitely very linear, especially the side maps which got often recycled with a slightly altered design. With the railroads for how you travel the overland map it is definitely no fun with the exploration. But Kingmaker was only slightly better in comparison. That is at least what I think about it.
Posted September 26, 2021
Adding a loot table would be an idea. The Pen and paper version has such tables which can be modified and adapted. It would allow dropping of items based on the challenge ratting (or Effective Challenge Rating) of an encounter. It would require a rebalancing of the loot distribution and you wouldn't be guaranteed to get items that fit any of your party members.

About the Adventure Paths:

Kingmaker and WoR are two different animals. The first is prized as one of the best examples of a sandbox style adventure in Pathfinder. It doesn't come as a surprise (for me) that WoR is more linear; a challenge because in order to not be to railroad-y (the feeling you are trapped in a narrative with a lack of agency) possess a greater problem comnpared to sandbox games (which in turn might have a problem with a lack of cohesion in story of pacing).

I agree that challenging encounters should have some meaningful reward attached to them if not some unique loot (though unique does not have to mean powerful).

I do not fully agree that loot should be hidden behind Perception Checks ; if you clear a dragon's hoard you should be able to find a magic item just fine without having to pass a check (I am looking at you Pillars of Eternity). that said, hidden sections containing good loot are a different matter.

Another solution is to let players make their own weapons (as you can already do in the pen and paper version and if I remember corectly you can do in Kingmaker with the right mods).

The ingredients could then also contain materials that you could use to craft weapons, armor and wondrous items or perhaps even reforge existing items into lesser artefacts; WoR is a perfect for this as you get Mythic power levels.
Posted September 27, 2021
I will add my support for this.
Posted September 29, 2021
I'd have loved if Act 2 onwards had more locations to explore on the map. I'd even buy a DLC that was stuff like dungeons or areas with unique challenges. As it is you're lead along by your companions, your character has no agency, you're just there to fill the hole in your companions existence.
Mythic paths are fun and all, but because they're so powerful result in a powergame creep where anything but the best skills will leave your characters behind. I learned not to use the auto levelling for companions, which I thought may have some unique character builds for them, as they don't take essential skills like outflank etc
Posted October 21, 2021
avatar
cal1s: I've been a huge fan of Kingmaker. The reward for exploring and pumping your perception skill high enough to find some really rare and powerful items made the game more fun (at least for me). One of the biggest selling points of any crpg - besides its story ofc - should always be itemization, and exploring the world to find hidden treasures. The moment you stumble upon a secret cache and find that awesome weapon or armor is just epic. Or you are face to face with an almost unbeatable foe, but you manage to kill it. When the fight was challenging and it drove you insane, but in the end you still triumphed over your enemy is already extremly satisfactory. So we CRPG players are looking for strong and challenging encounters. But, we also want loot as a reward.

Wrath fails to deliver here in my eyes - compared to Kingmaker.

Almost 80-90% of the loot you find in the game by exploring and making a successful perception check consists of ingridients or some trash for the vendor. Is this a cooking simulator or a full fledged fantasy CRPG where awesome loot and its distribution should be a huge part of the game?

For example:

The best weapon for my build I actually didnt find but bought from the vendor. That should not be possible. The vendors should be there to fill in temporarily. So for a total of 3 acts (!) I didn't stumble upon one single weapon upgrade for my build.

Even very difficult encounters (for example the lvl 20 dude in Lost Chapel) isn't even worth killing besides for xp and challenge. That thing didn't drop one single item. Again, a level 20 monster you encounter when you are around level 7-8.

Kingmaker did execute this part way better than Wrath, unfortunately.

So please, try to fix the loot system, and make exploring and killing difficult monsters rewarding again. Else, I actually (besides some builds that require it) dont even really see a reason to pump up my perception skill and might even skip certain mobs because of "no loot policy" in my future runs.

Thanks

PS: I'm no native english speaker, so please pardon my english skills.
The reward for killing the Demodand in the Lost Chapel is that you get to recruit Arusehalae early, which is pretty damn good and a very helpful addition when storming Drezen.

As for perception, I would strongly recommend you keep it pumped as it is critical for both quests and mythic paths (there is a secret path you can choose only if your perception is high enough + some other stuff). The loot diversity and functionality in WotR is admittedly not great, and I'm saying that as player that only got 2 items for his class in KM, and only 1 item in WotR. There is also a surprisingly weak amount of mythic path specific items which I did not expect.
Posted October 27, 2021
I have only managed to get one character out of the city. The rest... umm... how to put this? Let us just say that I have a short attention span and limited hard-drive space and leave it at that.

Having looked around the starting city over a lot of characters I can assure you that some pretty good stuff need to be looked for. Wither asking somebody about something gets you a map marker or you have to fight your way past an optional creature that is harder to kill than the main area boss (think: shield maze) there is plenty of stuff for those who take the time to go exploring. The perception skill is good for more than just finding traps and hidden enemies. It gets used a lot for noticing people who are trying to deceive you in dialogue for example.
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Pathfinder: Wrath of the RighteousGame does not promote/reward exploring - And loot problems(7 posts)(7 posts)
(7 posts)