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Do you really believe he asked for the RP advice? He specifically asked what would be a good way to go about it, not something like 'what do you guys think would be a good theme build for a dwarf?'. I wouldn't even bother answering to a thread phrased like that. And he said he wants a fighter type with alch levels, so my advice fits the bill as far as I'm concerned. Can be done better, but it'd be more multiclassing, which likely would be overly complicated for a new player, so it's not a cookie-cutter by any stretch. Actual build I would do would probably be motherless V3/Scion1/DD4/Irori Deliverer12 in case you are wondering since the guy wanted a few vivi levels.

As to mentioning that dorfs don't exactly provide anything of value, it's just a statement of fact as handicaps should be taken into consideration in the same way as positives should be. Aasimars are fine, but in a lot of cases get overshadowed by humans and motherless, including the case with d/w melee, so I wouldn't recommend them anyway.
Post edited October 13, 2020 by InEffect
I didn't say it was RP advice. I gave advice based on what he asked for and concept. He wanted a Dwarf character using Dwarf weapons. I gave that. I also explained that he was right, the Slayer class would be viable and strong for the kind of build he was looking for. You're the one that ridiculed the race selection because it wasn't the most optimized, immediately disregarded the weapons he wanted because they weren't the most optimized, then blew past the class he was asking about because (shocker) it wasn't the most optimized.

I get that you don't see the RP in RPG. To you the characters are a string of numbers and the game is to use those numbers to beat the other set of numbers as effectively as possible. Why would anyone want to play a race that didn't have the best numbers? Or a class that didn't have the best numbers? Or use a type of weapon that didn't have the best numbers? The fact that he COULD play a Dwarf that used dual-wielding Dwarf weapons and the Slayer class and do so effectively on any difficulty difficulty and enjoy himself is immaterial. Because he could be playing something STRONGER.

Like I said, I get it. It's who you are. RPGs aren't really your thing for the RP part. I see someone asking if it's possible to play a kind of character he envisions himself playing and try to make that concept work for him. You see the concept as inherently flawed and try to talk him into playing something mechanically better, concept be damned. We just have different styles and goals here.

I stand by my pitch. A novice player looking to do a dual-wielding Dwarf with Dwarf weapons can easily beat this game without having to make him a tiefling martial artist surgeon dual wielding paladin blades. But maybe you're right and that's what he actually wants. There's room enough for both suggestions here.
It's you who ignored his post. You didn't even read it.
Cartesii: And in the other hand, maybe an estoc, longsword, scimitar or falcata? Dunno what would work rly good together.
Cartesii: Maybe 1-2 dips into alchy for mutagen? Im rly not good in those.
If I was as petty as you, I'd say you swooped in and disregarded his draw to non-dwarven weapons and his desire to have alchemist levels along with martial class. The dude is clearly new and wanted some advice on mechanics. Now stop acting like a spoiled kid and either ignore me or drop your miserable attempts at whatever you think you are trying to achieve. It's not a good look.
Post edited October 13, 2020 by InEffect
Weird, I could've sworn his last post before you lied and said that Dwarven Waraxes don't exist was:
Cartesii: Sadly there is no higher crit value for heavy maces or dwarven special weapons. But i looked at a weapon list and the +dwarven+ weapons are rly rare magical wise huh?
I hope in pathfinder 2 they will bring some more magical versions of rare weapons too.
But maybe you're right. Maybe what I READ as
InEffect: Dwarven waraxes pretty much don't exist, so... yeah. As I said, if you want to d/w you pretty much have to go redeemer+perfection/allslayer.
wasn't what you wrote, but you in fact corrected his misconception and helped him discover that the weapons he was lamenting as wanting were actually available? Instead of trying to railroad him on using your favorites, right?

I guess he probably didn't respond to your suggestion of immediately triple classing level-dip with a YouTube video offering a simple single-class build (perhaps appropriately for a new player) either? And you naturally took that poster and fostered his seeking advice by showing him how to effectively play a single class character, not obstinately telling him other builds than yours are garbage and a waste of time?

I'm trying to meet you on some sort of middle ground despite the VERY low opinion I and most TT gamers have of your kind of builds, but you are making this very difficult.
Don't worry I have an equally low opinion of your janky builds anyone can do themselves just by randomly picking classes and races. Frankly, a simple rng simulator would do the same job with about equal degree of efficiency. But I don't go about screeching about it. And if TT gamers in your area behave like you and feel it's fine I'm very sorry for whoever tries to enter the hobby there. Guess whatever happened in your life while you were away from the forums wasn't pleasant, judging from all the venom you have now, so no hard feelings.
Post edited October 13, 2020 by InEffect
It's not TT gamers in my area, InEffect, it's TT gamers. Even you in other threads acknowledge that your builds are wildly unacceptable in table play and you only post these min/maxed level-dipped monstrosities because the AI "DM" doesn't call you out on them. And if no one is going to punish you and make you RP out this nonsense, why not break the game as much as possible?

And that's fine. I don't endorse it, but you're not wrong. No one is going to punish you by making you RP a 7 Intelligence, or demand you justify your Kung Fu surgeon Paladins. If someone doesn't care a lick about RP in the RPG they're playing, they CAN get some good mileage out of your builds.

But there's no need for all these histrionics and to lash out at that YouTuber, me, and anyone else who doesn't agree with your "style." You just need to present your build, and if someone likes it, they'll take it. If not, you didn't lose a single thing because they preferred someone else's. And you need to quit taking it so personal when someone disagrees with you. I didn't say your personal life was in shambles, I didn't say you sucked at the game, I didn't say your builds were shit - things you've attacked others with. I said that your builds are HEAVILY RP-unfriendly, a point you have made yourself multiple times. It's not an attack, it's an acknowledgement of a simple truth. Calm down.
Have you even watched his videos? They are about the same min/max level as mine, except bad. It has no justification or merit. And he doesn't play the games he talks about.

Speaking of stats it doesn't take a genius to take literally any of my min/max builds and drop a few stats to balance it out if one cares about it that much. Doesn't change much, except making A1 more cancer.

As to RP. There is a place for it. At the table.cRPGs are not PnP. The former is a social game. The latter is a numbers puzzle with a bit(or a lot) of visual novel mixed in.

And even then there are quite a few 'wargaming' tables that don't give that much of a damn about it.
Anyways, point is people enjoy the hobby however they damn please be it pnp or crpgs and not you or some nebulous TT community that has a monopoly on the "correct" way of playing. There is no such thing.
Post edited October 13, 2020 by InEffect
I did watch the video that the OP posted. I figure if I'm going to endorse or recommend against something someone presents me I should know what's actually in it. It's why I still read your builds before reacting to them. That guy might've grown, you might've grown. We don't know if we don't look.

And just removing the min/max for your stats doesn't really make them any less RP-unfriendly. The builds themselves with the contrary and explanationless level dips just devlidate them from the ground up. And again, that's not something you necessarily even need to fix. If you're going to ignore the RP, there's no sense in holding back where Attributes are concerned if you didn't where levels, skills, equipment, alignment or anything else was concerned. In for a penny, et cetera.

As to RP not belonging in an RPG game, I know your opinion there. It's been pretty well expressed, and we'll forever disagree on it. In my thinking, if you don't want RP why would you pick an RPG to play? There are purely mechanical games out there not bogged down with story, plot and development. Hell, there are even RPGs out there that are 99% mechanics with just the loosest of plots to string the number crunching together. Pokemon, for example. But to take a deep dive into a D&D / Pathfinder game and not care at all about concept or RP or appropriateness?

Well, I've said it a dozen times this thread. We're very different people in that regard.

Anyhow, I feel like we're spamming this poor guy's thread with our unrelated philosophizing. I'm going to bow out here.
So whats so blashemous about DG/Vivi? If memory serves there was anointed knight in 3.5 that represents about the same. Monastic training in ones youth is also not exactly rare and transitioning into paladinhood is not exactly a huge leap from there either. Seems fine to me.
Post edited October 13, 2020 by InEffect