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Neverwinter Nights seriesThe problems with NWN1 that i`d completely forgotten about...or didn`t realise.(12 posts)(12 posts)
(12 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted March 02, 2019
I`ve been replaying this game a bit after a looong while (last time was 10-15 years ago) and while some of it is quite good, I realise that it really isn`t very good in other parts. Here`s what I find kind of crappy.

1. Only ONE companion? Seriously? I can`t even pass stuff I find which I can`t use onto to my companion. Also they don`t ever really talk. Can`t level him up either. I know he levels himself, but i like levelling them up. If i`m missing something, someone please tell me.
2. Silly NPC AI. My companion stupidly casts a confusion spell while I am un=protected and I`m killed cos i`m just standing there now. Manage to solve this when I found a belt that protects me against that. Couldn`t use her until then.
3. Game feels very dry, almost sterile as everyone just stands around waiting for you to go to them. The land is clearly built up by a square geometry so hills look like lego bricks.
4. Civilian Women don`t wear dresses at all. It`s like they all where blue jeans. The game doesn`t feel quasi-ancient medieval at all because of it. To be honest, even the men should really be wearing robes or a kind of skirt too. Just feels too modern. Ironically they do when you play NWN2. Could be a coding capability of the time issue.
5. That Stone of Recall, y`know that teleport Stone you get at game start - Super cheat. I discovered that you can use it in the middle of a fight which I never knew before. Big monster getting you down? Use that stone, jump to safety, heal yourself, jump back, over and over until monster dead. Sometimes it even erases the monster. Makes every big battle almost pointless.
6. It may be a small point to some, but I didn`t realise just how `pc` this game is in many parts. The one saving grace is that allows me to take the opposite point of view, so I can say "screw that!" If I really don`t want to do it.

Maybe the major issue is that this game was really made for online play against others. I played this game with someone else before (by Lan) and I remember it as fun- that must`ve been why. It seems if you Single Player it, it can be quite boring and dry for the most part.

Just my musings.
Post edited March 02, 2019 by Socratatus
Posted March 02, 2019
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Socratatus: 1. Only ONE companion? Seriously? I can`t even pass stuff I find which I can`t use onto to my companion. Also they don`t ever really talk. Can`t level him up either. I know he levels himself, but i like levelling them up. If i`m missing something, someone please tell me.
This is how it looks in the original campaign. It's a little better in the expansion packs. You can change your companions inventory and gain a limited influence on their ability development. Hordes of the Underdark allow you to have two companions, so it feels a little more team based.
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Socratatus: 2. Silly NPC AI. My companion stupidly casts a confusion spell while I am un=protected and I`m killed cos i`m just standing there now. Manage to solve this when I found a belt that protects me against that. Couldn`t use her until then.
Unfortunately caster AI is quite poor. Melee companions can do their thing with a little effort. You can however try some mods which should improve the situation: https://neverwintervault.org/project/nwn1/hakpak/original-hakpak/henchman-inventory-battle-ai-mod. This enables you to modify companions inventory in the original campaign as well.
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Socratatus: 3. Game feels very dry, almost sterile as everyone just stands around waiting for you to go to them. The land is clearly built up by a square geometry so hills look like lego bricks.
Yep, it's built from blocks. And it has its reason. The game was designed to be highly moddable. It was intended that the player should be able to quite easily create his own modules. This requires implementation of blocks which can be freely used in many different combinations. The official campaigns were made with a similar tools to those released with the final game. That's why all the content looks quite generic.
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Socratatus: 5. That Stone of Recall, y`know that teleport Stone you get at game start - Super cheat. I discovered that you can use it in the middle of a fight which I never knew before. Big monster getting you down? Use that stone, jump to safety, heal yourself, jump back, over and over until monster dead. Sometimes it even erases the monster. Makes every big battle almost pointless.
That Stone of Recall can save your butt. :) NWN in single player mode is not a classic team based RPG, where you have six teammates and control everyone, including a Cleric/Druid who can cast resurrection. It complicates things a bit. The game needed some feature that compensates this fact.
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Socratatus: Maybe the major issue is that this game was really made for online play against others. I played this game with someone else before (by Lan) and I remember it as fun- that must`ve been why. It seems if you Single Player it, it can be quite boring and dry for the most part.
You're observations are mostly correct. I have similar feelings. Single player campaign was intended as an introduction to online mode and custom modules. Original campaign is quite boring, but wait for the expansions. They're a lot better. :)
Posted March 02, 2019
Well thanks for your response. I am looking forward to the expansions... as I have almost finished this.
Post edited March 02, 2019 by Socratatus
Posted March 02, 2019
Game would be too easy with more than one companion/
Posted March 02, 2019
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Mr_Gibblets: Game would be too easy with more than one companion/
Well that depends on the difficulty, so not true. Play on higer difficulties and the game could quite happily have had at least two companions with you.

Also, it don`t feel right when you go on a journey and all you can take is one person when traditionally (as a warrior) one is used to taking a thief and a wizard. You always have a fighter, sorcerer and a thief. Going alone or just one other is normally a choice not mandatory. It is very limiting.
Posted March 03, 2019
I think the only time I relied on the Stone of Recall when I first played, was during the prison. I can't remember who I had with me, but I was multiclassing a rogue/wizard. Other than that, I think it just stayed in the inventory.

Most of the original OC I don't remember much. After the first time, I tried playing it with just 1 of the henchmen all the way thru, but I could never stick to the entire quest. SoU I've done multiple times, and is my favorite out of the first expansions. One of these I'll get to the extra modules after Hordes.
Posted April 12, 2019
I've found the Official Campaign kind of blah and been more interested in playing the modules made by the community. We can have more henchmen in them and there are varied styles of modules to choose from.
Posted April 14, 2019
In NWN, Bioware tried to mimic Diablo II's success.

1. Player with henchman
2. Random loot
3. Inventory item sizes based on what they are: Huge swords, small rings etc.
4. System revised for more action: Resting now takes only 5 seconds: Good for sorcerers.
(I actually wrote a review about that and there were 8 similarities)

Which did not work well in the OC. Everybody was expecting like a Baldur's Game experience with group management and OC was a huge disappointment in gameplay. It is not bad, just different.

There awesome mods that fixes henchman problem. You can actually control their inventory (which kinda makes them too powerful). AI mods that make them super smart or you can actually tell them how to behave.
Posted April 15, 2019
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Engerek01: In NWN, Bioware tried to mimic Diablo II's success.
Nonsense. NWN is totally it's own thing.

Bioware tried and succeeded in making D&D contstruction kit, that captures as much of the PnP experience in digital form.

They made it easy to develop new modules (included a toolset), and also made it so you could have LAN play and internet multiplayer, and even having a DM client so a DM could control the game sessions.

It was so good at this that almost every popular TSR D&D module has at least one implementation, and there is a wide array of high quality original stories constructed by the community, the likes of which don't really exist for any other game.
Posted April 15, 2019
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PeterScott: Nonsense. NWN is totally it's own thing.
So you are saying that all of those sudden and one time changes that were unique to Diablo 2 are completely coincidence?

Also, your statements about toolkits and mods are totally irrelevant to my points.

I remember vividly the time when NWN came out. And many reviews said that it was a TERRIBLE copy of diablo 2 and that those did not work at all. Even Bioware admitted that in a few interviews. And they NEVER did any of those mistakes EVER again. They learned from their mistake. So should you.
Posted April 15, 2019
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Engerek01: So you are saying that all of those sudden and one time changes that were unique to Diablo 2 are completely coincidence?
Of course they were coincidence, they are both RPGs of a sort, so there will be some similarities.

Also you know very little of the genre if you think those features were unique to Diablo. Example: Variable sized inventory items were common around that time. Two RPG I played that I can think of off the top of my head had it:
Vampire The Masquerade: Redemption
Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura

It's an obvious choice once computer resolution starts increasing from the 320x200 that was common in the 1990's.

NWN was clean sheet RPG engine, but it is most decidedly NOT an action RPG like D2.

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Engerek01: Also, your statements about toolkits and mods are totally irrelevant to my points.
Of course they are irrelevant to you, since they run counter to your false narrative, you want to ignore the hundreds of ways NWN is different to focus on a couple of ways they are similar.

But NWN and D2 are as different as RPGs get.

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Engerek01: I remember vividly the time when NWN came out. And many reviews said that it was a TERRIBLE copy of diablo 2 and that those did not work at all.
Well vividly imagined maybe. NWN reviews were overwhelmingly positive. Prompting me to go out and buy the game immediately on release. I still have my original boxed copy 16 years later.

Also this being the internet, we can actually check those reviews:
https://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/neverwinter-nights

Metascore: 91 (Universal acclaim - Must Play). That really doesn't look like what you "remember vividly".

Lets compare to Diablo 2:
https://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/diablo-ii
Metascore: 88 (Generally favorable reviews)

Gee, how does the "TERRIBLE copy" score higher than the original?

To sum it up:
Your premise is wrong.
Your memories (however vivid) are wrong.
Your knowledge of the genre is thin, at best.
Post edited April 15, 2019 by PeterScott
Posted April 20, 2019
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Socratatus: I`ve been replaying this game a bit after a looong while (last time was 10-15 years ago) and while some of it is quite good, I realise that it really isn`t very good in other parts. Here`s what I find kind of crappy.

1. Only ONE companion? Seriously? I can`t even pass stuff I find which I can`t use onto to my companion. Also they don`t ever really talk. Can`t level him up either. I know he levels himself, but i like levelling them up. If i`m missing something, someone please tell me.
2. Silly NPC AI. My companion stupidly casts a confusion spell while I am un=protected and I`m killed cos i`m just standing there now. Manage to solve this when I found a belt that protects me against that. Couldn`t use her until then.
3. Game feels very dry, almost sterile as everyone just stands around waiting for you to go to them. The land is clearly built up by a square geometry so hills look like lego bricks.
4. Civilian Women don`t wear dresses at all. It`s like they all where blue jeans. The game doesn`t feel quasi-ancient medieval at all because of it. To be honest, even the men should really be wearing robes or a kind of skirt too. Just feels too modern. Ironically they do when you play NWN2. Could be a coding capability of the time issue.
5. That Stone of Recall, y`know that teleport Stone you get at game start - Super cheat. I discovered that you can use it in the middle of a fight which I never knew before. Big monster getting you down? Use that stone, jump to safety, heal yourself, jump back, over and over until monster dead. Sometimes it even erases the monster. Makes every big battle almost pointless.
6. It may be a small point to some, but I didn`t realise just how `pc` this game is in many parts. The one saving grace is that allows me to take the opposite point of view, so I can say "screw that!" If I really don`t want to do it.

Maybe the major issue is that this game was really made for online play against others. I played this game with someone else before (by Lan) and I remember it as fun- that must`ve been why. It seems if you Single Player it, it can be quite boring and dry for the most part.

Just my musings.
Items 1–3: anachronisms. But yes, the latter campaigns much improved on the first.
4. The universe is decidedly monomorphic, meaning that there is no difference between the sexes, they are all treated equally (for whatever irrelevant real-world political reasons), so the female characters are actually appropriately dressed.
5. You don't have to use the stone. (I didn't use it when I played through the game the first time. Now, however, I am seeking a different experience and have no qualms about using it as necessary. :)
6. It's a choices-and-consequences RPG; additionally, people are overwhelmingly good; so pathetic fallacy reigns supreme, in pretty much every media property. Horror stories justify their gore because, even though good people die horribly, bad people die in much worse ways.

I was unimpressed with the sequel, but I can warmly recommend the Underdark. If you haven't played it, you will be blown away.
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Neverwinter Nights seriesThe problems with NWN1 that i`d completely forgotten about...or didn`t realise.(12 posts)(12 posts)
(12 posts)