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I love CRPGs, I love dungeon crawlers, I love turn-based combat, and I'm ready to give up on this series after playing MM4 and a few hours into MM5 (Darkside).

1) Non-existent main plot. There's maybe 20 lines of dialog relating to the main story. Any characters are thinner than paper, just a single sentence and off you go.

2) Extremely basic combat system, and poor balance. You're either steamrolling enemies with basic melee attacks, or getting steamrolled, or abusing boost wells and high-level spells to steamroll unbalanced enemies. Combat got really boring as I finished the dwarf mines (1st dungeon in MM4). And once you get Lloyd's Beacon, all difficulty is removed since you can go refresh your SP in town and teleport back to where you were.

3) Boring soundtrack. Other than the track used in the Darkside intro, I can't even recall a single track as I type this.

4) Terrible item system. It's just the same crappy randomly-rolled items over and over. It got so tedious comparing items at the shop, I stopped bothering. I don't think there's a single unique item other than the story sword from MM4.

5) Boring samey dungeons, made worse by the boring combat

I get that this is a game from 1993, but Final Fantasy VI and Star Control 2 came out in 1994, and those are lightyears ahead of World of Xeen in so many aspects.

Does MM6 GREATLY improve on any of these issues? Or is it just a slight improvement?
Post edited April 02, 2021 by MachinTrucChose
MM6 is my favourite M&M game (MM2 would have been if it didn't have level scaling), while MM4/5 is my last favourite, so I would say yes.

The plot is better and less silly.

Combat is more fun and challenging, but still not very tactical. And you face hordes of enemies instead of 1-3.

Don't know about soundtrack, since it doesn't interest me.

Item system is great, and it's always exciting to open new chests.

Greatest dungeons of all MM games. Some of them are the stuff of legends.

So, items 1-2 is at least slight improvement, while 4-5 is great improvements IMO.
Post edited April 02, 2021 by PetrusOctavianus
MM6 is the best might and magic game, should've probably started here. the start can be tedious if you don't know what you're doing but other than that the games pretty fantastic, the soundtracks are also really good in 6 and 7.
MM6 is much different than WoX.

It has a significant improvement on the inventory compared to WoX. The music is great and the dungeons are startling. It has a 3D environment and real-time combat, even if you would need to change to turn-based very often.

The story is linked with the HoMM saga, following the events of HoMM2 and being set parallel to HoMM3. That doesn't mean that you should play the game for the plot. I would say it serves simply for contextualization.

Even if it's extremely catchy, I enjoyed more the fast-paced WoX compared with MM6. MM6 will put you facing contless hordes of enemies. It's very gratifying to clean the map and dungeons, but it takes time from exploring.

The Might & Magic games aren't renowed by their plot (like Ultima) or by the combat system (like Wizardry). Their best part is exploration. You are thrown into the game knowing nothing of what to do and being destroyed even by the stupidest of the monsters. The purpose of the game is to find out where you should go and how to progress. If you know that there are fountains for recovering and buffing, it's because you have found them, like the answers to solve those riddles and puzzles. However, if you know all that beforehand, the enjoyment may fall appart.

Compared to FF6, the experience is totally different. Being a heavily plot-orientated game, the story is great, but you do know where you must go next at any given point, even if with the last part of the game they pretended to give some freedom. On the other hand, the combat system in FF6 isn't particulary good nor balanced. Once you start getting the Espers, all characters become clones and it's actually a very easy game,
I gave it a shot and I do enjoy it more. However, the combat is really unbalanced.

I have Knight/Cleric/Druid/Sorcerer and if it weren't for cheesing enemies with bows, I don't think I could've beaten the very first dungeon (Goblinwatch). There's just so many enemies. Since then, every dungeon has been harder.

The Abandoned Keep was the same as Goblinwatch.

Then the Temple of Baa was absolutely ridiculous. I must have spent an hour cheese sniping those Skeletons from the top floor. I thought I might have went there too soon.

Then I started the Shadow Guild cave. And again, it's a huge ramp up in enemy HP and how hard they hit. The first 3 enemies in the opening room killed me on the 1st attempt (I was holding back my spells to be fair). I reloaded and once again, bow cheesing.

And this is after I already cheated by going to the NWC dungeon for +20 stats!

From what I've seen of this game, I think things will stay like this until I can use Lloyd's to fly around drinking bonus fountains before returning to the dungeon to steamroll enemies.

Still, the game offers way more than WoX did, I'll see it through.
if you like mm6 but find the enemies too difficult / grindy just go for 7 or 8, 8 is by far the easiest / least grindy. but yeah I'm pretty sure castle ironfist dungeons are way harder than mist and the cannibal island ones so probably a bit too early there.
The great thing about open world, non-scaled games is that you can pussyfoot around and get the feel of how hard the areas are. To me that really enhances the exploration aspect of the game.
Ypu can also use the traveling services and get to regions that are too hard for your party yet. But, you can grab the horseshoes and other stuff and visit some shops to gear up.
It is also helpful to talk to all people and find some good companions with special abilitlites (town portal for example).
Post edited April 05, 2021 by Mondkalb
I really enjoyed MM6, but I also liked Xeen as well. There is a campiness to the whole Might and Magic series that I just enjoy, where so many out there try to encapsulate "grimdark" and edgy stuff, I just want to chillax when I get home and get on the computer sometimes. And Might and Magic has just the right mix of absolute absurdity and face smashery for me to enjoy my time.

I just picked up 7 and that little opening sequence they had in that kind of nails what I'm trying to say. Just campy fun goodness. Mandate of Heaven is probably less insane than 4-5, but definitely not a 100% serious game, and that is why I enjoyed it as well. Anyhow, sorry for the case study in necromancy here, but thought I'd add to the thread.
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MachinTrucChose: I gave it a shot and I do enjoy it more. However, the combat is really unbalanced.

I have Knight/Cleric/Druid/Sorcerer and if it weren't for cheesing enemies with bows, I don't think I could've beaten the very first dungeon (Goblinwatch). There's just so many enemies. Since then, every dungeon has been harder.

The Abandoned Keep was the same as Goblinwatch.

Then the Temple of Baa was absolutely ridiculous. I must have spent an hour cheese sniping those Skeletons from the top floor. I thought I might have went there too soon.

Then I started the Shadow Guild cave. And again, it's a huge ramp up in enemy HP and how hard they hit. The first 3 enemies in the opening room killed me on the 1st attempt (I was holding back my spells to be fair). I reloaded and once again, bow cheesing.

And this is after I already cheated by going to the NWC dungeon for +20 stats!

From what I've seen of this game, I think things will stay like this until I can use Lloyd's to fly around drinking bonus fountains before returning to the dungeon to steamroll enemies.

Still, the game offers way more than WoX did, I'll see it through.
I'm assuming you're familiar with leveling up characters and know the difference between waiting and resting, but I have some tips for you:

- Use wizard's eye to inch your way into rooms full of enemies and pull a small fraction of enemies at a time (this is not always possible)
- Get heroism for your cleric or druid and cast it on all melee characters (or just get expert spirit magic and cast it once)
- Get expert fire magic and haste
- Sparks is a great early-mid game spell for your sorcerer (also druid depending on your build)
- Acid Burst is a great water magic spell for the same characters

Unfortunately, druid is an extremely weak class in MM6 (and in 7 and 8), especially if you have both sorc and cleric.
avatar
MachinTrucChose: I gave it a shot and I do enjoy it more. However, the combat is really unbalanced.

I have Knight/Cleric/Druid/Sorcerer and if it weren't for cheesing enemies with bows, I don't think I could've beaten the very first dungeon (Goblinwatch). There's just so many enemies. Since then, every dungeon has been harder.

The Abandoned Keep was the same as Goblinwatch.

Then the Temple of Baa was absolutely ridiculous. I must have spent an hour cheese sniping those Skeletons from the top floor. I thought I might have went there too soon.

Then I started the Shadow Guild cave. And again, it's a huge ramp up in enemy HP and how hard they hit. The first 3 enemies in the opening room killed me on the 1st attempt (I was holding back my spells to be fair). I reloaded and once again, bow cheesing.

And this is after I already cheated by going to the NWC dungeon for +20 stats!

From what I've seen of this game, I think things will stay like this until I can use Lloyd's to fly around drinking bonus fountains before returning to the dungeon to steamroll enemies.

Still, the game offers way more than WoX did, I'll see it through.
avatar
Lars_Rakett: I'm assuming you're familiar with leveling up characters and know the difference between waiting and resting, but I have some tips for you:

- Use wizard's eye to inch your way into rooms full of enemies and pull a small fraction of enemies at a time (this is not always possible)
- Get heroism for your cleric or druid and cast it on all melee characters (or just get expert spirit magic and cast it once)
- Get expert fire magic and haste
- Sparks is a great early-mid game spell for your sorcerer (also druid depending on your build)
- Acid Burst is a great water magic spell for the same characters

Unfortunately, druid is an extremely weak class in MM6 (and in 7 and 8), especially if you have both sorc and cleric.
I see Druids as overpowered in MMVI.
All Elemental Schools, All Priest Schools, No Light or Dark
Blue Goo decided by both Personality and Intelligence
And can sport a shield.
Not bad.
A Deadly Swarm Casting Druid is good.. With one, I go for the ghosts early on in the Corlagon's Estate as the rings there are just great early on.

Weak in MMVII as are all hybrid classes.
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Lars_Rakett: I'm assuming you're familiar with leveling up characters and know the difference between waiting and resting, but I have some tips for you:

- Use wizard's eye to inch your way into rooms full of enemies and pull a small fraction of enemies at a time (this is not always possible)
- Get heroism for your cleric or druid and cast it on all melee characters (or just get expert spirit magic and cast it once)
- Get expert fire magic and haste
- Sparks is a great early-mid game spell for your sorcerer (also druid depending on your build)
- Acid Burst is a great water magic spell for the same characters

Unfortunately, druid is an extremely weak class in MM6 (and in 7 and 8), especially if you have both sorc and cleric.
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macAilpin: I see Druids as overpowered in MMVI.
All Elemental Schools, All Priest Schools, No Light or Dark
Blue Goo decided by both Personality and Intelligence
And can sport a shield.
Not bad.
A Deadly Swarm Casting Druid is good.. With one, I go for the ghosts early on in the Corlagon's Estate as the rings there are just great early on.

Weak in MMVII as are all hybrid classes.
I can't imagine anyone agreeing to this.

Druids OP? Compared to what, exactly? They do have all spell schools except light and dark, as you say, but you would never be able to use this to any sort of advantage, let a lone an overpowered one. The only way I can even begin to see your point would be if you used the druid as the sole spellcaster in a triple knight single druid party, but even so, 2 knights + a paladin and an archer would be superior in every single way.

You say Deadly Swarm is a good spell for druid? This is also completely wrong. Earth magic is completely useless in MM6 except for a few very special incidents where Mass Distortion can be somewhat useful. How would anyone even consider putting points into earth magic to make Deadly Swarm useful when water magic (which you need to put points into anyway for Town Portal and Lloyd's Beacon has vastly superior damaging spells compared to earth magic?

That druids get mana from both personality and intelligence is irrelevant as by the middle game stats are irrelevant due to the incredibly diminishing returns from stats.

Druids can use shield, but so what? First of all, your armor class is already suffering because you're wearing leather instead of chain or plate, secondly you won't have any points to put into either leather or shield since you're already tying up all your points into all the spell schools.

I get that you like druids. I do too. They have cool lore and flavor, but they are simply terrible and overshadowed by other classes in every way. There is absolutely no way of making druids even close to OP in this game. A cleric with day of the gods, hour of power and shrapmetal combined with either a sorcerer with shrapmetal or an archer for movement spells will simply be better than any combination you might think of that involves a druid.

If you want to go off-meta and have fun, go ahead. I get it and support it completely, but don't try to tell me they're OP.
avatar
macAilpin: I see Druids as overpowered in MMVI.
All Elemental Schools, All Priest Schools, No Light or Dark
Blue Goo decided by both Personality and Intelligence
And can sport a shield.
Not bad.
A Deadly Swarm Casting Druid is good.. With one, I go for the ghosts early on in the Corlagon's Estate as the rings there are just great early on.

Weak in MMVII as are all hybrid classes.
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Lars_Rakett: I can't imagine anyone agreeing to this.

Druids OP? Compared to what, exactly? They do have all spell schools except light and dark, as you say, but you would never be able to use this to any sort of advantage, let a lone an overpowered one. The only way I can even begin to see your point would be if you used the druid as the sole spellcaster in a triple knight single druid party, but even so, 2 knights + a paladin and an archer would be superior in every single way.

You say Deadly Swarm is a good spell for druid? This is also completely wrong. Earth magic is completely useless in MM6 except for a few very special incidents where Mass Distortion can be somewhat useful. How would anyone even consider putting points into earth magic to make Deadly Swarm useful when water magic (which you need to put points into anyway for Town Portal and Lloyd's Beacon has vastly superior damaging spells compared to earth magic?

That druids get mana from both personality and intelligence is irrelevant as by the middle game stats are irrelevant due to the incredibly diminishing returns from stats.

Druids can use shield, but so what? First of all, your armor class is already suffering because you're wearing leather instead of chain or plate, secondly you won't have any points to put into either leather or shield since you're already tying up all your points into all the spell schools.

I get that you like druids. I do too. They have cool lore and flavor, but they are simply terrible and overshadowed by other classes in every way. There is absolutely no way of making druids even close to OP in this game. A cleric with day of the gods, hour of power and shrapmetal combined with either a sorcerer with shrapmetal or an archer for movement spells will simply be better than any combination you might think of that involves a druid.

If you want to go off-meta and have fun, go ahead. I get it and support it completely, but don't try to tell me they're OP.
I have no idea why Earth Magic gets little respect since Rock Blast lets you clear out Lich Nests and Werewolves Dens without even seeing them. But yes, Swarm is pointless by the Middle of the game. That is is why it is an early spell. Static Charge is also a bad spell by Mid-Game. Not the point.
Druids are good when you have "Only what you carry"--- which is early on. After Water Master, things are much different and your players start going the Temple for healing as often as you need. Different Game altogether and stats become only markers on how much damage you deal (until Blasters). Unless you are playing a Might game which takes a different approach.
Post edited August 23, 2021 by macAilpin
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Lars_Rakett: I can't imagine anyone agreeing to this.

Druids OP? Compared to what, exactly? They do have all spell schools except light and dark, as you say, but you would never be able to use this to any sort of advantage, let a lone an overpowered one. The only way I can even begin to see your point would be if you used the druid as the sole spellcaster in a triple knight single druid party, but even so, 2 knights + a paladin and an archer would be superior in every single way.

You say Deadly Swarm is a good spell for druid? This is also completely wrong. Earth magic is completely useless in MM6 except for a few very special incidents where Mass Distortion can be somewhat useful. How would anyone even consider putting points into earth magic to make Deadly Swarm useful when water magic (which you need to put points into anyway for Town Portal and Lloyd's Beacon has vastly superior damaging spells compared to earth magic?

That druids get mana from both personality and intelligence is irrelevant as by the middle game stats are irrelevant due to the incredibly diminishing returns from stats.

Druids can use shield, but so what? First of all, your armor class is already suffering because you're wearing leather instead of chain or plate, secondly you won't have any points to put into either leather or shield since you're already tying up all your points into all the spell schools.

I get that you like druids. I do too. They have cool lore and flavor, but they are simply terrible and overshadowed by other classes in every way. There is absolutely no way of making druids even close to OP in this game. A cleric with day of the gods, hour of power and shrapmetal combined with either a sorcerer with shrapmetal or an archer for movement spells will simply be better than any combination you might think of that involves a druid.

If you want to go off-meta and have fun, go ahead. I get it and support it completely, but don't try to tell me they're OP.
avatar
macAilpin: I have no idea why Earth Magic gets little respect since Rock Blast lets you clear out Lich Nests and Werewolves Dens without even seeing them. But yes, Swarm is pointless by the Middle of the game. That is is why it is an early spell. Static Charge is also a bad spell by Mid-Game. Not the point.
Druids are good when you have "Only what you carry"--- which is early on. After Water Master, things are much different and your players start going the Temple for healing as often as you need. Different Game altogether and stats become only markers on how much damage you deal (until Blasters). Unless you are playing a Might game which takes a different approach.
Rock Blast is a cheese spell. If you want to cheese, there are way better and faster ways to do it.

My main point against earth magic is that for you to get value from Rock Blast, you will need to spend points in it. I'm guessing you're going skill level 10 in water for TP/Lloyd's, 7-10 in air for Fly and 4-7 in fire magic for Haste. Furthermore you are probably going 7-10 in spirit magic as well for heroism and dumping points into body and mind magic.

This equates to 117-189 skill points without even considering body and mind magic which sets you at level 21-31. And you don't even have a single point in any weapon, armor or misc skill at this point if you spend all on spells.

By this time, your water magic skill level 10 Acid Burst does 59 dmg single target and Poison Spray does 17 dmg x 5 shots. And now you're dumping points into earth magic to get a mediocre cheese spell that does 4.5 dmg/skill level on average?

Good luck with that. Meanwhile, a sorcerer or cleric focuses on either elemental or priest spells and has points to spare for meditation and other skills and crushes everything with Shrapmetal.
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macAilpin: I have no idea why Earth Magic gets little respect since Rock Blast lets you clear out Lich Nests and Werewolves Dens without even seeing them. But yes, Swarm is pointless by the Middle of the game. That is is why it is an early spell. Static Charge is also a bad spell by Mid-Game. Not the point.
Druids are good when you have "Only what you carry"--- which is early on. After Water Master, things are much different and your players start going the Temple for healing as often as you need. Different Game altogether and stats become only markers on how much damage you deal (until Blasters). Unless you are playing a Might game which takes a different approach.
avatar
Lars_Rakett: Rock Blast is a cheese spell. If you want to cheese, there are way better and faster ways to do it.

My main point against earth magic is that for you to get value from Rock Blast, you will need to spend points in it. I'm guessing you're going skill level 10 in water for TP/Lloyd's, 7-10 in air for Fly and 4-7 in fire magic for Haste. Furthermore you are probably going 7-10 in spirit magic as well for heroism and dumping points into body and mind magic.

This equates to 117-189 skill points without even considering body and mind magic which sets you at level 21-31. And you don't even have a single point in any weapon, armor or misc skill at this point if you spend all on spells.

By this time, your water magic skill level 10 Acid Burst does 59 dmg single target and Poison Spray does 17 dmg x 5 shots. And now you're dumping points into earth magic to get a mediocre cheese spell that does 4.5 dmg/skill level on average?

Good luck with that. Meanwhile, a sorcerer or cleric focuses on either elemental or priest spells and has points to spare for meditation and other skills and crushes everything with Shrapmetal.
Druid or Sorcerer L12 for Water Master
But before I leave New Sorpigal--- Expert in Water, Air, Fire and Earth. Divided between the Sorcerer and Druid.
But going after a Lich early on will get you killed if you try a direct attack. They Drain, Blind then kill you.
And Ethric Tomb and the Werewolf Den are needed for Money and Points; and the Estate is needed for Advancement to get Water Master quickly.
So I use Rock Blast a lot for indirect attacks. Works for me.
(I forget if you have enough Points for all four expert advancements in New Sorpigal or if one has to wait).