I hope it makes for an entertaining changelog. :)

... or a launcher toggle.

lol, we'll make something special for this changelog line!

Will this be then remembered as difficulty level srhill? :D

Hello again

I'd like to say thx to the developer for this patch once again. Since last time I was here you have integrated an option to customize the starbase configuration, Great! and of course many other options.

I have just come back to MoO2 after a long pause, and I noticed something while playing now. I tried to play a spy race, so I picked +20 spying.
I think that when you take that racial trait, it actually doesn't give you +20 spying, but rather -20 or something.

Here's the scenario: Fresh start, very early in game. I meet my first alien, I put two spies on him. He has no spying techs or racial bonuses.
Guess what, I click 10, 20, 30 turns and... NOTHING! (yes he has techs to steal). I actually remember this behaviour from my last time playing as well, but I brushed it off, but it's become apparent that there is something very wrong.

Now, I don't know when this bug happened or if it's in the official patch because I don't think I ever used that pick before recently.

If you think its a bug - upload a save reproducing described things, please; we cant reproduce it on our own, techs are definitely stealing well. Also note - by default player cant steal a tech from the same field that player is researching now. Parameter steal_mode can be used to change that behavior.

Ah well. I did another run, this time with a better custom race build. I was able to build more spies quickly and research quicker also.
This time it worked as expected. Maybe there is a threshold in number of spies or such, and I always play on impossible so there's that too.

I guess it's working normally then.

63 or 64 IIRC.

For every race as well as counter-espionage. Once you defeated a race those spies go into counter-e and the rest is getting destroyed.

Threshold? Impossible? You need a minimum one spy to be able to steal something, thats all. Difficulty level doesnt affect player's steal chance, while can help AI to steal from player.

I meant like a logarithmic scale. A threshold where spying becomes more effective.
On my first game I had 2 spies with 20 (later 30, didn't seem to make much difference) spy bonus, against an opponent with no spy bonus and theoretically no or very few defensive spies.

Second game I had spy bonus 30, with 4 or 5 spies, and techs started rolling in very frequently.

On impossible maybe the AI gets free spies, or simply it's production is so massive it can produce lots of spies very quickly.

But, I just thought of something. I suppose I could open a savegame in Corion to see what the AI is doing? It's been so long since I used that program.

>"I meant like a logarithmic scale. A threshold where spying becomes more effective. "
>"You need a minimum one spy to be able to steal something, thats all." - thats the most important "threshold": you cant steal with 0 spies; all other calculations require knowledge of both players bonuses.

>"On impossible maybe the AI gets free spies, "
>"Difficulty level doesnt affect player's steal chance, while can help AI to steal from player." - how come it become "maybe gets free spies"?

Patch manual also have info about spying.

You seem to assume I haven't read the pdf, and are therefore slightly annoyed and dismissive. I have read the spy section, and there was nothing I deemed relevant there.

Also you said there was a new rule to exclude current research from being stolen by agents. Well, I'm playing with 1.50 standard rules and that "behavior" is not in effect as I've spied techs from the same field I'm currently researching.

Why do you cherry pick my comments like your last quote? Sure, you covered all contingencies with your first comment, maybe...

As you see, this is what I wrote: "On impossible maybe the AI gets free spies, or simply it's production is so massive it can produce lots of spies very quickly."

I seem to recall the AI having massive production and other bonuses on Impossible.
I'm not a Moo2 programmer or guru, so don't expect me to be binary accurate in conversation about it.

You can know how many spies ai has by switching to its empire, press Alt+X in main screen to cycle empires. Note that this 1. may spoil your game since you will know all AI whereabouts, 2. counts as cheat, so don't save after it if your score is dear to you.

Thank you for the tip. Also I want to say I do like the new "cheat" *ALLAI* you've added.

As for me I'm not concerned with my score (but I suppose you mention it for the benefit of all), I play to relax and zone out, occasionally I try to discover new interesting efficient type race builds

I've settled on Creative dynamite builds (™ just now) - Extremely fast research, confined to home planet/system, until you become invulnerable or overwhelms the opposition. But that becomes boring sometimes - must try something else... :)
But it is the most efficient with little micromanagement I've found.

"You seem to assume I haven't read the pdf, and are therefore slightly annoyed and dismissive. I have read the spy section, and there was nothing I deemed relevant there. "
I didnt assumed it, just said manual have info on a subject, covering some of rised questions. I couldnt know if you did read it or not ofc. Tho its quite weird to skip a explanation about agents bonus as irrelevant, then ask stuff like "A threshold where spying becomes more effective. ".

"Also you said there was a new rule to exclude current research from being stolen by agents. Well, I'm playing with 1.50 standard rules and that "behavior" is not in effect as I've spied techs from the same field I'm currently researching. "
No, i said there is old rule "by default player cant steal a tech from the same field that player is researching now.". 1.50s is using new rule tho, "player cant steal a tech that player is researching now.", my using of "by default" could be confusing here, my bad, should been "in classic" instead.

"Why do you cherry pick my comments like your last quote? Sure, you covered all contingencies with your first comment, maybe...
As you see, this is what I wrote: "On impossible maybe the AI gets free spies, or simply it's production is so massive it can produce lots of spies very quickly." "
Suppose ill write: "Maybe you spent all that day throwing rocks into passers-by, or spent at least part of it using gog forums instead". The fact of second part of sentence being true doesnt justify groundless of first part of it. Moreother, the second part also not follow from first one. Both "maybe" parts are not based on something, and not required, while both "or" parts are correct. There was no point to quote a second part there, its viable.

Ok, well I tend to overlook such mathematical displays - I was never good with math. But looking now it seems to be a rather linear increase. Though not sure I understand the relation of those numbers with the in-game numbers, but still more is better that's for sure :)

In any case I did eventually arrive at the only possible explanation, albeit a bit dirty process with throwing around here and there. Sorry if I offended you.