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Master of Orion seriesChanges(21 posts)(21 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted August 07, 2012
I have played MOO2 ever since it was introduced. Love the game and think it is the very best game ever. My computer with the XP windows died recently and I couldn't load the CD in on the new replacement (windows 7), so I joined GOG. It's a great site.

I find that this game has changed a bit in the translation. I always have been able to kill the defender of Orion with 6 Battleships loaded with 6 Gyro Destabilizers, with special systems loaded with Battle Pods, ECM Jammers and Reinforced Hull.

The problem thatf I am having is that this copy of the game will only allow me to put 4 gyros on that ship, There seems to be some discrepancy in the capacity of the ships.

I tried to attack Orion with 9 ships(figuring that it would match it up to 36 gyros) and the defender wiped out all 9 of them.

Is any one else having this problem and, if so, how are you killing the defender of the Orion?

Les229
Posted August 07, 2012
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Les229: I find that this game has changed a bit in the translation. I always have been able to kill the defender of Orion with 6 Battleships loaded with 6 Gyro Destabilizers, with special systems loaded with Battle Pods, ECM Jammers and Reinforced Hull.

The problem thatf I am having is that this copy of the game will only allow me to put 4 gyros on that ship, There seems to be some discrepancy in the capacity of the ships.
2 things come to mind
1) All ship systems use 25% less space (may be more, may be less) for each additional tech researched in that field. So while nuclear missiles may use 10 space each when first researched, when you research anti-matter torpedoes, they may be using 2 space each (instead of 10).
2) The GOG.com version is patched to the latest patch version, which you may not have had back when you played. Balance changes may have occured since then, so it is possible that the Guardian was buffed (or the destabilizers were nerfed).

As for how to kill overpowered monsters (or guardian), my preferred rush strategy is the Missile Frigate, which is a suicide ship. Put as many 2-shot missiles (prefferably MIRV ones) as possible on an unarmormed unshielded ship, build as many of those as possible, and let them loose. The Guardian will tear through them as if they were paper, but if you have enough, you should be able to kill him. Not sure how many are enough though.
Posted August 07, 2012
Thanks.

Some of hte older guys did it that way and were happy enough. My problem is that I do not lke to waste ships and am,continually refitting them. About how many frigates do you think you send in? I may to have to expirement with this. Do you manage the battles, or let the computer do it?

Any one else have any Ideas?
Post edited August 07, 2012 by Les229
Posted August 07, 2012
To elaborate more on what JMich said, you'll need at least Merculite missiles with MIRV/EMMC/ARM/EMG modifications to beat the Guardian. Anything less powerful won't even scratch the shields, and even with this setup you won't be able to do much hull damage.
The whole idea behind this approach is to drop the shields with MIRVs and then hope enough EMG missiles hit the engines and overload the reactor. For more details on how to design your ships, take a look at this guide. It's risky and it requires a fair amount of luck (i.e. if one of your ship detonates and the shockwave destroys your missiles, you're pretty much boned) but it's the cheapest way to take out the Guardian.

Another strategy, wich I prefer, is to research Plasma Web+2 levels of refinement and fill up 3-4 Battleships witht them with Zortrium armor and Reinforced Hull for defense (you may also use Tritanium armor, or stop researching beam weapons after Plasma Web is discovered, but then you'll need more ships).
Charge the Guardian, fire everything you have in the first two turns. Once enough webs are applied the battle is pratically won, the Guardian will be torn apart in a few more turns and all you need to do is keep the battle going until that happens. Scatter your ships to the far corners of the map to buy more time (if you have enough spare command points, it really helps to bring along a few frigades with speed upgrades just for this purpose, and retreat the Battleships).
Posted August 07, 2012
Thanks. It seems I have some research and expirementing to do. With the 6 "Tornados"(my name for the gyro battle ships), I only lost one ship and gained the Orion ship. In the impossible mode, I think it would leave me very weak and vulnerable to attack from the other races to endure this kind of carnage.

On about what turn do you usually capture the Orion?
Posted August 20, 2012
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Avogadro6: To elaborate more on what JMich said, you'll need at least Merculite missiles with MIRV/EMMC/ARM/EMG modifications to beat the Guardian. Anything less powerful won't even scratch the shields, and even with this setup you won't be able to do much hull damage.
The whole idea behind this approach is to drop the shields with MIRVs and then hope enough EMG missiles hit the engines and overload the reactor. For more details on how to design your ships, take a look at this guide. It's risky and it requires a fair amount of luck (i.e. if one of your ship detonates and the shockwave destroys your missiles, you're pretty much boned) but it's the cheapest way to take out the Guardian.

Another strategy, wich I prefer, is to research Plasma Web+2 levels of refinement and fill up 3-4 Battleships witht them with Zortrium armor and Reinforced Hull for defense (you may also use Tritanium armor, or stop researching beam weapons after Plasma Web is discovered, but then you'll need more ships).
Charge the Guardian, fire everything you have in the first two turns. Once enough webs are applied the battle is pratically won, the Guardian will be torn apart in a few more turns and all you need to do is keep the battle going until that happens. Scatter your ships to the far corners of the map to buy more time (if you have enough spare command points, it really helps to bring along a few frigades with speed upgrades just for this purpose, and retreat the Battleships).
Posted August 21, 2012
Mmm, turn 300 maybe? I don't really remember, haven't played in months.

I used to play Elerians on hard and they suffer from a slow start due to their research malus. So my first priority was to get Autolabs + the minimum of technology necessary to repel an eventual attack from the other species, and that slowed things down considerably. I've never been beaten on the race for Orion though, the computer waits an embarassing amount of time before even attempting to capture it.

But as I said before, I haven't played in months, nowadays I'm cheating MoO2 with MoO1, I find it easier, more straightforward and more fun. :)
Post edited August 21, 2012 by Avogadro6
Posted August 22, 2012
Since the game has changed and I hadn't played in a couple of months(I had been trying Port Royael, but found it not challenging), I decided to get a refresher course on Average. I did defeat the defender on move 320 using the gyros. It took 14 ships and I lost 4. In the impossible, I had always thought that I needed to get it done by move 260. One thing in using the gyros is that you still have a fleet capable of defending your empire.

The problem I had on the rockets is that the EMG modification didn't seem to come, even when I had finished the individual items in the Chemistry category. I didn't proceed into the Hyper advanced because I thought htat it would take too long. Then too, I always thought that the missiles lost a lot of their value as the game goes along and preferred to research other things.

If I find a more efficient way to get passed the Guardian, I will let you know.

Have you ever tried Star Control? I would be interested to kn ow what prople thinnk of it.
Posted August 22, 2012
EMG is a tech that must be researched. It's in the fourth tier of computer techs, IIRC. (Not counting the pre-warp one.)
Posted August 23, 2012
Thanks. I was assuming that it just appeared like the other missile enhancements.

Do you use the missile approach to killing the Defender? If so, about what turn do you get it done?
Posted August 23, 2012
The missile approach is feasible, and I have used it, although you don't necessarily need to take the all-missile approach to pull it off; as long as you have enough firepower of whatever sort to get its shields down and let the EMG missiles through, you're good to go.
Posted August 23, 2012
Thanks. Have you defeated the defender without using he EMG in this current version of the game? I usually research the rangemaster in that grouping.
Posted August 24, 2012
Sure - you don't need to use the EMG approach to take it down; EMG is just doable earlier than the straight-up damage approach.

EMG is well worth picking if you're going to be using missile ships - it's a very effective (brutally so if you've specialized for it) tech against any enemy ship.
Posted August 24, 2012
As soon as I get the Death Ray, I usually begin to build what I call the Centurion. It uses the Rangemaster with heavy Death Rays. It can just sit out of the range of most opponent ships and pound them into submission. The structural Analyzer is a nice finishing touch if I can get it although I usually research the Autolab in that grouping. That leaves me trying to make a deal for the SA(or capture or steal it).

I never really used the missiles much in the original version. The only times I really used it was maybe on frigates and destroyers, early in the game to keep from being attracked by an over agressive AI. That being said, I almost never jeopadized the future beam weapon ships with research on missiles. Right now, I am trying to see if I can continue on that strategy with this changed version of the game.

As I said before, since this game has been changed some from the original disc, I am now playing this new(to me) version on an average setting to see what other surprises it holds for me. I really appreciate your insight and advice.
Posted August 26, 2012
My main gripe with MoO2 is how the tech tree forces you to choose between research and targeting computers. Pick the former and your beam\projectile weapons will be utterly useless. Pick the latter, and your whole empire will fall behind in research and power.
In most cases I never study targeting systems before Autolabs, not because I don't want to, but because it'd be suicide to do otherwise.

Missiles on the other hand have a pretty decent innate hit chance and damage - not to mention they are situated in the chemistry tree, wich also provides better armor and fluel tanks. That's why missile boats are terrific in the early stages. It's just an approach too good to pass up - but it's also boring. :/
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Master of Orion seriesChanges(21 posts)(21 posts)
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