It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
avatar
hedwards: The point is that they apparently lied to us about the status of the DRM free version and a lot of the modules are going to wind up being Steam only.

What's more, for those of us that don't yet have account information, how would we know? AFAICT I won't be getting that until the game is launched as I don't see any emails about it nor do I see that I have beta or alpha access on my pledge.

I'll probably complain to KS about this and see if I can get my money back, I would never have pledged for a copy that was so crippled.
avatar
amok: I think SimonG's argument so far have been that the backers get exactly what was promised to them. The DLC's promised to the backers are given to them DRM free...

Account based system was mentioned as part of the social features and mods - and this is exactly what Steam is if they do not make use of the CEG component. There is nothing here not part of the original project.

edit - and it seems also that it is not even needed to have Workshop integration for mods.
SimonG is a lawyer, but most normal people would probably not consider the possibility that the DRM free version would be different from the DRM version in such a substantial way.

I do wonder how many of the backers would have backed had they known that Steam would be functionally required to make use of the full game. I can't say for sure, but KS campaigns with DRM often don't go very well. I think the main exception is for iOS where there really isn't any way of doing that which doesn't involve jailbreaking.

I'm personally tempted to ask for my money back because this differs substantially from what I was promised.
avatar
Stevedog13: Did anyone notice the note from InXile on their Kickstarter page?

For both Torment and Wasteland 2, we're not using Steamworks and you won't be forced to use any single retailer option to access any part of the game or be able to use modding. We'll put the game on retailers that use DRM, like Steam or Origin, sure, because our backers can decide for themselves if they prefer that option, and we're agnostic to where you get the game.
One of the SR backers posted that in the comment section for the update. I think this is really the best way of going about it. I personally object to being effectively forced to use Steam if the DLC is compelling.
avatar
PoSSeSSeDCoW: Good move. I imagine it will increase sales.
Sarcasm?
Post edited April 12, 2013 by hedwards
avatar
apocolypse600: TLDR: Game will be drm free, but mods and all future DLC will require steam.

What do people think of this?
avatar
ne_zavarj: Steamcrap for the mods ? They can keep their game .
Once more, for the (hopefully) last time: this remains to be seen. Again, Skyrim has also steamworks and workshop integration, yet you can run mods without even touching the workshop.
Future DLCs requiring Steam is the bummer, but we don't know what those will include. Fallout New Vegas: Courier’s Stash which was originally for pre-orders only, was one of the first mods where you could get a copy version of those items.
Now IF they release for example other cities with different art-assets as future DLCs, that would be another bummer. However, those art-assets would probably be available rather quick too, as meshes and texture replacers are common as dirt in every modding scene.

Everyone relax and take a deep breath.
Sheesh, those witchhunts sure are popular nowadays....
avatar
ne_zavarj: Steamcrap for the mods ? They can keep their game .
avatar
Siannah: Once more, for the (hopefully) last time: this remains to be seen. Again, Skyrim has also steamworks and workshop integration, yet you can run mods without even touching the workshop.
Future DLCs requiring Steam is the bummer, but we don't know what those will include. Fallout New Vegas: Courier’s Stash which was originally for pre-orders only, was one of the first mods where you could get a copy version of those items.
Now IF they release for example other cities with different art-assets as future DLCs, that would be another bummer. However, those art-assets would probably be available rather quick too, as meshes and texture replacers are common as dirt in every modding scene.

Everyone relax and take a deep breath.
Sheesh, those witchhunts sure are popular nowadays....
I also like that someone so against Steam seems to be using Big Fish quite a lot. The difference between the Steam client and Big Fish client in terms of DRM is just a matter of taste :)
avatar
PoSSeSSeDCoW: Good move. I imagine it will increase sales.
avatar
hedwards: Sarcasm?
Serious. Digital distribution history has shown us that more people are for games that use Steam features than against games that use Steam.
avatar
hedwards: Sarcasm?
avatar
PoSSeSSeDCoW: Serious. Digital distribution history has shown us that more people are for games that use Steam features than against games that use Steam.
Being on Steam isn't an issue, it probably is a good thing ultimately, but requiring steam for future DLC and making the DRM free version so crippled is decidedly a bad thing. And that's what most folks are upset about, not that they have the option of getting it through Steam rather than somebody else.
avatar
amok: I also like that someone so against Steam seems to be using Big Fish quite a lot. The difference between the Steam client and Big Fish client in terms of DRM is just a matter of taste :)
Not really. There's no offline-mode for Big Fish at all. :p
Guess it's the same hypocrites feeling the need to "warn" others about a Ubisoft title because of UPlay, but claimed 2 days earlier that they "can't wait" for Diablo 3.

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.
- Abraham Lincoln
Post edited April 12, 2013 by Siannah
avatar
amok: Thank you, there is an example of DLC
So with that in mind, what would be the problem with selling Shadowrun's DLC through Humble Store?
avatar
Siannah: Not really. There's no offline-mode for Big Fish at all. :p
Guess it's the same hypocrites feeling the need to "warn" others about a Ubisoft title because of UPlay, but claimed 2 days earlier that they "can't wait" for Diablo 3.

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.
- Abraham Lincoln
That's what I'm most worried about. First they say "the game beyond Berlin will be DRM'd, but you guys are getting most of the content DRM-free", so we'll bite our lip and be fine with it. Then they'll make some other shift that'll piss people off, but then the voices come out that say we should be fine with that too. The push keeps coming and pretty soon it's Terraria all over again... a bunch of BS promises and nothing to show for any of it.

Well, at least the guy behind Terraria is starting to fix what everyone's pissed about. Let's hope that Harebrained doesn't let it go that far.
Post edited April 12, 2013 by Decivre
avatar
hedwards: Sarcasm?
avatar
PoSSeSSeDCoW: Serious. Digital distribution history has shown us that more people are for games that use Steam features than against games that use Steam.
Thats because people have been conditioned to accept Steam since it was pretty much the first kid on the block & most dd stores are pretty much Steam key resellers (GOG and DotEMU aside) - doesn't prove more people use Steam 'features' though.
avatar
Stevedog13: Did anyone notice the note from InXile on their Kickstarter page?

For both Torment and Wasteland 2, we're not using Steamworks and you won't be forced to use any single retailer option to access any part of the game or be able to use modding. We'll put the game on retailers that use DRM, like Steam or Origin, sure, because our backers can decide for themselves if they prefer that option, and we're agnostic to where you get the game.
Battle Kronos devs have come out and said something along similar lines. I think people backing Kickstarters will have to be a bit more diligent about asking for exactly what they would like, and what they will be getting. Not enough people asking for clarity.....
Post edited April 12, 2013 by nijuu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8jkz0pdHk8
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1613260297/shadowrun-returns/posts/453037

'We said that post-Berlin Campaign DLC would only be available on Steam but we never said why. We regret the omission. The reason is that our license to develop Shadowrun Returns actually requires that the game and its DLC be distributed under DRM.'
Our Tuesday Kickstarter update generated many questions, particularly concerning the Steam vs. DRM-Free versions of the game. As we said, we wanted to wait until today to allow time for everyone’s questions and feedback to bubble up so we could write another update to address as many as we can, in one place.

You funded this project because you saw something in our Kickstarter that resonated with you personally and made you want to be a part of it. Backers pledged more than financial support - you invested your belief in our ideas and gave us your trust that we would do what we said we would. We take that trust very seriously and are doing our best to be worthy of it.

With your support, we will always do our best to fix problems or concerns that arise, with the understanding that some of the issues we must deal with may not always appear obvious to the community. We will endeavor to communicate such things more clearly and promptly to you, our Backers, whenever it is possible for us to do so.

So let’s start here: We clearly left some critical information too vague, which resulted in some bad feelings and speculation. We are sorry about that and we’re going to fix that poor communication right now.

To reiterate, our Backers don’t have to choose a DRM-free version of the game or a Steam version of the game. You get both.
Backers who want a DRM-free experience with Shadowrun Returns (on Windows, OSX, and Linux) are getting the game, editor and all, and will be able to transfer community-created story files and update executables manually. (It works just like a non-Steam version of Skyrim: you can install mods manually or via a 3rd-party tool such as Nexus.) The DRM-free version will not require any internet connection or any form of online authorization to play. In addition, Backers who like the convenience and reliability of Steam and who want automatic updates, easy-to-browse content, and a DLC store are getting them.
We said that post-Berlin Campaign DLC would only be available on Steam but we never said why. We regret the omission. The reason is that our license to develop Shadowrun Returns actually requires that the game and its DLC be distributed under DRM. This didn’t come up earlier because the situation was complicated by the number of parties involved in the license and because the process was “ongoing”. Ultimately, we were able to successfully negotiate an exception with Microsoft for us to provide our Backers with a DRM-free version of the Kickstarter rewards (specifically the game and the Berlin Campaign) but that exception does not extend to non-reward DLC. So unfortunately, we cannot sell or give away DRM-free versions of the game or DLC on stores like GoG, and that’s why any future Shadowrun Returns DLC will only be available for purchase on Steam.
We will be updating/bugfixing the DRM-free versions (Windows, OSX, and Linux) of Shadowrun Returns, maintaining them along with the Steam versions. These updates will require Backers to re-download the game from the Harebrained Account Website, since it will not include auto-patching functionality.
People on here don't seem to remember what happened when the Omerta DLC was released on here. There were endless cries of "GOG SELLS OUT" and people cursing the day DLC was invented. There was at least one person threatening never to use GOG again!
Frankly, I can see why indies that release DLC avoid GOG.
Post edited April 12, 2013 by jackalKnight
I'm too tired to respond to this load of horseshit atm but I will.
I was hoping for a gog version of the game, actually, but I don't mind STEAM at all.

Funny to see that Microsoft is to blame in the end. The bastards are ALWAYS to blame. :P
low rated
The GOG version wouldn't have had paid DLC either if the nuclear reaction that the Omerta DLC got was any evidence.