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General discussion (archive)So apparantly Shadowrun Returns will only be sortof DRM free(696 posts)(696 posts)
(696 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted April 10, 2013
I was actually going to pre-order today until they changed it to a steam key. I personally believe that all games made on kickstarter should be DRM free for two reasons. The first is that you're making this game only because of the goodwill of the community. Giving them no DRM free option shows that you're willing to take their money, but aren't willing to trust them. Also, since they have no publisher to pay back, that means the first sale is automatically profit. They shouldn't be afraid of piracy since most people have already paid for their copy anyway.
Posted April 10, 2013
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amok: do you need an account to download though? Either Mod DB or Desura. If the game is DRM free, then there really would not be any difference between this and steam (as with Nexus for larger files) - it requires a third party account. Does it?
Unless it changed in the last year or so, you don't need an account to download mods that are stored on external servers.
Posted April 10, 2013
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mondo84: Yea I only realized a couple months ago that Mod DB was connected to and more or less run by Desura. But I think Mod DB has content for non-Desura games as well, like Half-Life 2 mods. But I'm not sure if those HL2 mods are standalone games or require HL2 to run.
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Neobr10: It's exactly the other way around, Mod DB existed for a long time before Desura and even Indie DB. The HL2 mods do require HL2 to run, of course, every mod needs the base game.
Ah I see. I just meant that Desura and ModDB's communities are interrelated. Thanks for explaining that.

I should clarify I only brought it up as one idea for a possible way of facilitating the distribution and discussion of user content for the DRM-free version of Shadowrun Returns, if HBS chooses to make that possible. I completely understand why they would want to have Workshop integration (and not concurrently host this content themselves), as it makes sense for various reasons people have discussed. But I also see people are disappointed with the DRM-free version not having all access to new content, so I thought maybe we can brainstorm potential solutions.
Posted April 10, 2013
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jodaniel3: I was actually going to pre-order today until they changed it to a steam key. I personally believe that all games made on kickstarter should be DRM free for two reasons. The first is that you're making this game only because of the goodwill of the community. Giving them no DRM free option shows that you're willing to take their money, but aren't willing to trust them. Also, since they have no publisher to pay back, that means the first sale is automatically profit. They shouldn't be afraid of piracy since most people have already paid for their copy anyway.
You said it right. :)

Let's say this kickstarter was 100% adequate to fund the full development of the game. The cost is already paid for. Everything from then on is pure profit. Piracy paranoia is partway ridiculous.

And this is important, but backer goodwill is absolutely crucial. Because this is literally charity money. You think you are going have it this easy from corporate/venture funding? No way in hell! You sign your name on the dotted line. And if you don't deliver everything from 1 to 100 in the contract, you get sued to the ground. That is if you don't already sign away a share of your company. End of story.

As much as I dislike EA, Ubisoft.. etc.. for the anti-consumer things they pull, these corporations do have a right to worry about piracy. Because they need to recoup back the cost of development before they even begin to collect profit.
Post edited April 10, 2013 by Nicole28
Posted April 10, 2013
low rated
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darkangelz: Speaking as a backer on SRR, reading some of the more inflamatory posts here and specially on the Ks page, makes me do a grand /facepalm, for such things as:
- treating KS as a glorified preorder store when it isnt one , and requesting a refund or making lawsuit threats at the first sign that the finished product is something diferent than imagined.
- ignoring that the game will be availible drm free aswell as the second city on the developer website. I imagine but could be wrong, that by the time the second city dlc is patched to the drm free version it would also patch to the latest public version. So patch support for the game should exist at leasdt untill that dlc comes out.
- consider a god given right to each backer the main game, the second city dlc, aswell as all future created content both from the developer aswell as the comunity from the point of release untill the end of time, wich has to be made availible at the personal whim of said backer.
- expect ad eternum support for the game from the developer.
- make all kinds of theories as facts
- Disregard and consider a personal insult the choice of steam when it has several advanfages for the developer.

Personnaly i don´t care much about their update, perhaps some disapointment if indeed the user created content cant be shared between the steam version and the drm free version, but hardly worth getting all fussed about it.
+1 for the well informed and written post. When people read "Steam" on the KS page, they got blinded by ire and passion and didn't even take their time to think about it in a rational way.

Seriously, i understand why some people didn't like it that much, but i just can't agree with the nonsense bashing and inflamatory posts. It's NOT that big of a deal. So far, they have fulfilled all their promises. As already pointed out by SimonG, they didn't mention ANYTHING in their KS pitch about future DLC, let alone making it available for the DRM-free version. They did mention that an account system would be needed for the community features, though. So yeah, you are getting everything you paid for.
Post edited April 10, 2013 by Neobr10
Posted April 10, 2013
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darkangelz: Speaking as a backer on SRR, reading some of the more inflamatory posts here and specially on the Ks page, makes me do a grand /facepalm, for such things as:
- treating KS as a glorified preorder store when it isnt one , and requesting a refund or making lawsuit threats at the first sign that the finished product is something diferent than imagined.
- ignoring that the game will be availible drm free aswell as the second city on the developer website. I imagine but could be wrong, that by the time the second city dlc is patched to the drm free version it would also patch to the latest public version. So patch support for the game should exist at leasdt untill that dlc comes out.
- consider a god given right to each backer the main game, the second city dlc, aswell as all future created content both from the developer aswell as the comunity from the point of release untill the end of time, wich has to be made availible at the personal whim of said backer.
- expect ad eternum support for the game from the developer.
- make all kinds of theories as facts
- Disregard and consider a personal insult the choice of steam when it has several advanfages for the developer.

Personnaly i don´t care much about their update, perhaps some disapointment if indeed the user created content cant be shared between the steam version and the drm free version, but hardly worth getting all fussed about it.
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Neobr10: +1 for the well informed and written post. When people read "Steam" on the KS page, they got blinded by ire and passion and didn't even take their time to think about it in a rational way.

Seriously, i understand why some people didn't like it that much, but i just can't agree with the nonsense bashing and inflamatory posts. It's NOT that big of a deal. So far, they have fulfilled all their promises. As already pointed out by SimonG, they didn't mention ANYTHING in their KS pitch about future DLC, let alone making it available for the DRM-free version. They did mention that an account system would be needed for the community features, though. So yeah, you are getting everything you paid for.
I backed this for a lot and even if this stands I consider their DRM free promise fulfilled. If you want easy-ass updates and other platform services from indie game makers, you're probably going to have to leverage at least some of these things from an existing platform. The bloody editor is available, right? Fucking make a level!
Posted April 10, 2013
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Neobr10: *snip
I did not know that, thanks for pointing that out.
Posted April 10, 2013
I also want to address the statement they made that they don't want to worry about server hosting their concept. Is this honestly something they're worried about? The humble store alone would probably go crazy to have their game, and they only take a 5% cut. I also received an email on them over putting the game on GOG, to which they said "That's not our immediate priority. I know GOG would love a game like this, so I don't know why this would be a problem to have your game available to a wider audience.
Posted April 10, 2013
I backed this and I´m not feeling betrayed, since they accomplished their promises. The whole "DRM-free feeling" comes from most of the people that back, not much from the dev. As stated above, nothing was said about future DLC´s, this is just an expectative created by the backers. That explained, my only concern is: Will be the mods made by the community, through the game editor, avaiable to install without Steamworks?
Posted April 10, 2013
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StingingVelvet: Not confirmed Steam version will have DRM.
There is no DRM-free option for Steam. All steam games and application use Steam's proprietary DRM.

You're thinking of Desura, which does have DRM-free options.
Post edited April 10, 2013 by Decivre
Posted April 10, 2013
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StingingVelvet: Not confirmed Steam version will have DRM.
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Decivre: There is no DRM-free option for Steam. All steam games and application use Steam's proprietary DRM.

You're thinking of Desura, which does have DRM-free options.
You're wrong, almost all games on Steam do use its DRM, but for a few games Steam merely acts as a delivery mechanism, they'll start just fine without it. Some examples of this would be most F2P MMOs, Iron Brigade, some older adventure games, and some indie games.
Posted April 10, 2013
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amok: Mod DB... that's basically Desura, isn't it?
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mondo84: Yea I only realized a couple months ago that Mod DB was connected to and more or less run by Desura. But I think Mod DB has content for non-Desura games as well, like Half-Life 2 mods. But I'm not sure if those HL2 mods are standalone games or require HL2 to run.
Desura has mods for non-Desura games too, installable through the client: http://www.desura.com/mods
Posted April 10, 2013
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orcishgamer: You're wrong, almost all games on Steam do use its DRM, but for a few games Steam merely acts as a delivery mechanism, they'll start just fine without it. Some examples of this would be most F2P MMOs, Iron Brigade, some older adventure games, and some indie games.
So far as I have seen, any game installed with Steam will cease to function unless it is free-to-play or a demo. If you need to purchase it, it is DRM-locked.

And I have a pretty big Steam library, so I should think I would have ran into one without Steam's DRM by now.

EDIT: I stand corrected. Just tested Super Meat Boy by moving it to another computer, and it works. So I guess not everything on Steam has DRM.

But if there isn't going to be DRM, then why even inform people that there probably will be DRM in all but the initial release version?
Post edited April 10, 2013 by Decivre
Posted April 10, 2013
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orcishgamer: You're wrong, almost all games on Steam do use its DRM, but for a few games Steam merely acts as a delivery mechanism, they'll start just fine without it. Some examples of this would be most F2P MMOs, Iron Brigade, some older adventure games, and some indie games.
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Decivre: So far as I have seen, any game installed with Steam will cease to function unless it is free-to-play or a demo. If you need to purchase it, it is DRM-locked.

And I have a pretty big Steam library, so I should think I would have ran into one without Steam's DRM by now.
Well, I'm sorry, you're experience is limited (as is, apparently, your definition of DRM). This is well documented both on this forum and elsewhere on the internet, you don't have to believe me, go check it out for yourself.

Having to buy something does not make it DRM, dude, that would actually make GOG games DRMed.
Posted April 10, 2013
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orcishgamer: You're wrong, almost all games on Steam do use its DRM, but for a few games Steam merely acts as a delivery mechanism, they'll start just fine without it. Some examples of this would be most F2P MMOs, Iron Brigade, some older adventure games, and some indie games.
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Decivre: So far as I have seen, any game installed with Steam will cease to function unless it is free-to-play or a demo. If you need to purchase it, it is DRM-locked.

And I have a pretty big Steam library, so I should think I would have ran into one without Steam's DRM by now.
There are some games on Steam which are DRM-free, although the vast majority is of course DRM'ed. Here's a list of DRM-free Steam games:

http://www.gog.com/forum/general/list_of_drmfree_games_on_steam/page1
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General discussion (archive)So apparantly Shadowrun Returns will only be sortof DRM free(696 posts)(696 posts)
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