What games though, because the Deus Ex series complains about not finding steam?

This one.

Thanks for the link.

Who knows. Maybe they honestly tried to appeal to everybody. But then they noticed the extra workload and are now trying to fullfill their promise to the backers but apart from that make the sensible business decision.

To be honest, I don't really care. I care about them making a great game.

Ok... so assuming that's how Shadowrun Returns will be distributed on Steam, it makes offering a second DRM-Free version through HBS' site somewhat pointless. Unless they do offer two DRM-Free version for whatever reason, one on Steam and one on HBS... although then why does the Steam DRM-Free version support future expansions and the HBS DRM-Free version doesn't, shouldn't they function exactly the same?

What difference does that make beyond the scope of mere praticality ? Considering how you bitch endlessy, and rightly so, about GG's disingeneous use of the "DRM Free" label i'm preety sure you don't consider content that can be made to bypass steam's client requirement to be DRM Free content.


DLC ?

How dare people get upset when the party at the other side of the table doing business with them is less than honest and/or unclear about what it is they're promising to deliver ? You know the realities that weigh in on decisions like this ? They should be taken into account BEFORE putting up a fucking webpage asking people for their money.

That is the old chicken and egg question of what is DRM. If I can get the game running on a PC that has never seen Steam (like Dungeons of Dreadmore and quite a few indies) , does it matter? Unlike GG, Steam does not encrypt their downloads (except pre-orders, I think).

It might not be DRM free in the GOG sense. Or maybe in yours and mine. But why bother arguing about it?

The DLC from the Kickstarter DLC will be DRM free. Not only is further DLC not even planned, it was also not part of the Kickstarter. This goes together with the silly argument some people make that a game is "incomplete" without DLC. Which it isn't (unless they purposely removed portions of a game to sell later).


They have been honest and as clear as possible. They mentioned third party account for community features. And they deliver a DRM free version of everything covered by the kickstarter. They did not mention Steam on the Kickstarter because back then they probably didn't know if they would get the game there.

The very fact that they mentioned the third party account was a very clear indication that some sort of DRMish software would be needed for those features.

You can currently even play the game without ever connection to the internet if you have the boxed editions. What is more DRM free than that?

I think people have a problem with this kickstarter because they had some sort of idea on how the game would handle the DRM. And now they are pissed (not in the BE version) because their idea isn't the reality, but what was actually stated on the Kickstarter page. You, and all those people subscribing to their own little DRM free ideology (which is highly diverse in itself) might be disappointed. But marking the devs as "dishonest" is just silly.

And I think a lot of people are pissed, (again, not BE) because the game is not offered on their holy temple of GOG. While this is of course an assumption on my part, it makes a lot of that anti-Steam rhetoric quite ironic.

I am no longer active here, but did LoG and Torchlight II receive the same hostility when they used Steam workshop?

SimonG, nice to see you back.

And about Shadowrun - it's not about makin a business decision, we all know some great games are only available on Steam - because of publishers decision - and we all understand that, even though some of us don't like that.

This situation is different, because HBS is not keeping their promise.

They basically said that they are going to release two versions of the game - and drm-free will be inferior.

There's no clear reason why modding tools shouldn't be available for everyone. Legend of Grimrock guys did it, and it's working ok.

But most important, there's no reason to not release DLC drm-free. Right now I start to wonder if there will be any gameplay in my drm-free game. It looks like Shadowrun missions will be Steam only. I'd like to point out that we know nothing about the gameplay yet. Seeing that HBS is not acting good, I'm afraid they will release very short game to somehow fullfill their DRM-free promise, but most of the content they will put to DLC and this way there will be nothing interesting in DRM-free version.

Also, this is just stupid businnes move. Not only they lost sympathy of many people who pledged their money, but they also won't get any $ from people who won't buy on Steam. I can understand selling whole game on Steam only (I don't like it, but I undestand that), but prividing DRM-free game and DLC with drm is a nonsense.

This is were I object. The kickstarter was about a game and a DLC. And that will be delivered DRM free.

And about that "inferiority". While Steam workshop is the recommended option, I highly doubt that this will be the only way to get mods and those missions. Other Steam workshop games (most notably Skyrim) use the workshop together with the Nexus flawlessly.

And from what I understand, they provide an editor. I am not versed in the way of modding. But if Skyrim is able to use it's modding tools to create content for the Nexus, why shouldn't Shadowrun?

All in all, the DRM free version will not have less content, but rather "higher maintenance". But is the staple of DRM free.

The official DLC will be cut off for the DRM free version. But those are after release stuff which were neither covered by the Kickstarter nor the DRM free promise. The game is DRM free. (Which is, btw, how many of the GOG games were handled before GOG released DLCs.)

Nice to argue with you again, too ;-)

I recall them speaking at length about expanding the game's story and gameplay areas through DLC (Hong Kong, Orc Underground, etc), it was part of their pitch.

I also disagree on that part. As much as the people here try to pretend it isn't so, DRM free isn't really that important in the actual business part. If they see a lack of sales. they can still provide the extra work.

And, just for a thought experiment, what do you think would have happened if they offered all those Steam features in the Kickstarter pledge, but failed to get the game on Steam? That would have cause some serious problems.




Where:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1613260297/shadowrun-returns

?

So why bother arguing and bitching about GG's encryption ? Can you not run their games on a PC that has never had the encrypted files on it ? Are you honestly telling me that carry over copy/pasta bypassing methods are offensive to you depending on platform of choice ?

If you don't want to bother arguing about things then maybe you shouldn't bring those things up as gotcha, specially when they they satnd in direct contradiction of one of your most veementlly reiterated pet peeves on these boards.

"Any future DLC will only be available through Steam"

That sure sounds like no furthere DLC is planned.

People were promised a DRM Free version for their money, trying to pretend that the legitimate expectaction of a DRM Free version capable of accomodating, on its own, future DLC wasn't created right then and there, now that's silly.

Obviosuly they haven't or there wouldn't be so much room for confusion and/or dissapointment right now.

It's in there somewhere. I refuse to accept I imagined the whole thing.

I bitch about the GG downloader because it sucks big time. Not because it is DRM. And that even we agree that that usage of Steam for the download only is DRM. You still get a version without any Steam needed.

Yes, that statement was made in this update. The backing process is somewhat over for a year now. Back when the game was pitched there was the game and the first DLC said to be DRM free. And guess what, they are.

Seriously, the only mention of Steam brings up controversy. And people are so disappointed because their self made expectations aren't fulfilled. Because Shadowrun isn't their next apostle of the DRM free ideology.

Again, an account management system for additional stuff was mentioned on the initial kickstarter page.