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gkoczyk: Except the "typing with one hand" quip. Shame on you, SimonG - you nasty, nasty Internet person. ;P
What?!

I was feeding homeless kittens with carbon neutral vegan food with my other hand....
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SirPrimalform: Because there's no chance that people might actually end up with more than one copy of a game, right? Especially considering Humble's habit of adding in games from previous bundles as bonuses? Right? Right?
If that really is your reasoning, I have some bad news about Santa for you ...
Post edited April 14, 2013 by SimonG
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SirPrimalform: Because there's no chance that people might actually end up with more than one copy of a game, right? Especially considering Humble's habit of adding in games from previous bundles as bonuses? Right? Right?
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SimonG: If that really is your reasoning, I have some bad news about Santa for you ...
Care to explain what is wrong with the reasoning? I don't mean "keep the DRM-free copy and give/trade/sell the Steam key because that's two licences, derp", I mean "I had already bought this earlier, I have now bought it twice and thus have two licences".
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keeveek: All right, I need to make a comment anyway. Because some hobo trolls (people who feel the need to visit GOG boards only to say how retarded the community is) don't understand what's going on. I don't know why some of you felt the need to turn this discussion into steam haters vs. steam lovers debate, because it has nothing to do with it.

The discussed issue is about an indie dev that acted disloyally to a portion of customers, no matter how small. I am not surprised people were expecting some sort of good will from an indie dev and especially not expected they will need to read the fine print.

Seriously, I really thought "legends of video game design" to be better than that. And yes, people were expecting, that DRM Free promise means DRM Free , not crippled, full experience, for everybody who has allergy on any form of platform dependance.

Just like people are expecting "avaible on PC" means on Windows 7, 8 and not Windows 95 only. Some old fart would write here "well, they never said Windows 7, so..." probably.

Every sane person sees that makers of Shadowrun Returns backed off from DRM Free offer as far as it was possible to not be sued for fraud or simply for refunds. And every sane person knows now, that they used DRM Free phrase only as a buzzword to gain even more attention (it doesn't matter if drm free crowd is significant enough, they did it to lure them, it's all that matters).

It's only significant they disclosed steam dependency and the fact DRM free version will not be sold to anybody after pulling back he money easily wasn't avaible, to notice this kind of behaviour is not cool.

As much as I don't care about non-invasive DRM, I fully understand why many backers are upset over this.
Thanks!

Its astonishing that even quite intelligent members of this community just don't get it. *sigh* Crowdfunding/Kickstarter is not a pre-order shop. Its about funding projects!

And if a project, or a part of that which was reason to get funding from several people, is presented in one way and long after getting funded to be revealed as something else is, at least morally, very wrong.
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SimonG: What?!

I was feeding homeless hummingbirds with NutraSweet with my other hand....
Fixed that for you. Now with 100% more Internet ! :D

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SirPrimalform: Care to explain what is wrong with the reasoning? I don't mean "keep the DRM-free copy and give/trade/sell the Steam key because that's two licences, derp", I mean "I had already bought this earlier, I have now bought it twice and thus have two licences".
Might be about HiB purchase being for your own account and not a gift. It would be nice if they gave ability to gift a pre-owned part of the bundle; but from strict, legal POV (IANAL, don't hurt me) permission for that is not given. "Nickle and diming" on purchaser's side ;)
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SirPrimalform: Care to explain what is wrong with the reasoning? I don't mean "keep the DRM-free copy and give/trade/sell the Steam key because that's two licences, derp", I mean "I had already bought this earlier, I have now bought it twice and thus have two licences".
I will not even go into this. Especially as trading Steam keys of most bundles is simply a breach of the rules of said bundles. But it is quite surprising how convenient such circumstances come up. But hey, as long as we are screwing publishers and devs, everything is fair game. But dare them making a mistake. Or, by god, trying to earn a buck.
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SimonG: What?!

I was feeding homeless Pokemons with Nutella with my other hand....
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gkoczyk: Fixed that for you. Now with 140% more Internet ! :D
I need to get out more ...
Post edited April 14, 2013 by SimonG
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joedpa82: Enough with the hate guys. There are plenty of other negative things to hate in this world like hunger, violence against women and war.

If you want a refund just go email HBS and voice your dissatisfaction to them. Dont spew hatred against us kinsfolk. You have to understand that they wanted to release it without DRM but in the end they had to bow to MS just so that we can play Shadowrun. without them kowtowing with MS we would never have any Shadowrun to play with and that is a sad thing.

Cant we just get along here?
EVERYONE: This guy has said 90% of everything worth saying like 7 pages ago. Just saying, relax, go play some video games. The anger over this, on both sides, is getting over the top.
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orcishgamer: Just saying, relax, go play some video games.
Word!

I can recommend some games that are easily played with one hand.

In case of ... you know ... hungry kittens....
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orcishgamer: Just saying, relax, go play some video games.
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SimonG: Word!

I can recommend some games that are easily played with one hand.

In case of ... you know ... hungry kittens....
You misspelled "boobies".
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SirPrimalform: Care to explain what is wrong with the reasoning? I don't mean "keep the DRM-free copy and give/trade/sell the Steam key because that's two licences, derp", I mean "I had already bought this earlier, I have now bought it twice and thus have two licences".
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SimonG: I will not even go into this. Especially as trading Steam keys of most bundles is simply a breach of the rules of said bundles. But it is quite surprising how convenient such circumstances come up. But hey, as long as we are screwing publishers and devs, everything is fair game. But dare them making a mistake. Or, by god, trying to earn a buck.
Again, what is wrong with buying two licences and giving one away?
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gkoczyk: Might be about HiB purchase being for your own account and not a gift. It would be nice if they gave ability to gift a pre-owned part of the bundle; but from strict, legal POV (IANAL, don't hurt me) permission for that is not given. "Nickle and diming" on purchaser's side ;)
I was talking about the morality of it. If you have bought two completely separate licences (and I don't mean DRM-free and Steam is two licences, I mean bought separately from each other) then I see nothing wrong with giving one of those away.

SimonG sure likes to reinforce stereotypes about lawyers.
Post edited April 14, 2013 by SirPrimalform
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SirPrimalform: I was talking about the morality of it. If you have bought two completely separate licences (and I don't mean DRM-free and Steam is two licences, I mean bought separately from each other) then I see nothing wrong with giving one of those away.

SimonG sure likes to reinforce stereotypes about lawyers.
Funny, as I am not a lawyer. Never was, never will (probably).

Yes, the morality. If you pay for both licenses as if you would have paid if it was your first purchase, then I think you can ignore the wishes of the devs. But I highly doubt people are doing that. Considering the averages that those bundles come in....

Seriously, justify your (or others) behaviour as much as you want. Whatever rocks your boat.
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SimonG: I will not even go into this. Especially as trading Steam keys of most bundles is simply a breach of the rules of said bundles. But it is quite surprising how convenient such circumstances come up. But hey, as long as we are screwing publishers and devs, everything is fair game. But dare them making a mistake. Or, by god, trying to earn a buck.
By common sense, he did pay for an additional copy. By law, he just has a separate non-transferrable license to use the game.

It's not that clear cut from where non-lawyers are sitting. Same as in copyright infringement vs theft debates (all the rage among mildly drunk people at 3am - everyone was either a "fascist pig"or "commie anarcho-syndicalist" by 5am)...

I need to get out more ...
You and me both... ;(
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jackalKnight: I pointed out that people in that thread claimed that GOG's pre-order bonuses weren't generous enough.
No, they didn't. The people in that thread claimed that pre-ordering was generally a bad idea, but maybe you could make an exception for a company you particularly wanted to support.

Roman5 makes a complaint that starts the thread.

DieRu says that ". If it was a game I was interested in, I think the 11% off would be all the incentive I would need. But... this kinda makes me think of back when games came with all sorts of interesting things.... and then many of those things got switched to "Let's make it DLC and have them pay for it","

I say that "GOG doesn't usually do a very strong job of pushing them ... I don't mind though."

BlueMooner says "It's like complaining an antique store doesn't have great deals on the latest gadgets... it's just not that kind of business."

RadonGOG says "Preordering discount on Omerta was a massive one (~27€ vs. 45€ Retail), so this cannot be a point! But I totally agree to yo that the inscenation of GOG-Preorders isn´t as good as they had been!"

Pheace says "I'm not particularly aware of GOG games where GOG is doing really bad on preorder bonuses so far?"

And DryFish says "However gog can't be hold reponsible for bad preorder deals because there not as big as steam or origin (unfortunaly), so the publishers give only the best deals to the sites who they think will sell the most of theire games."

And that's it. That's every comment about GOG's pre-order system. You say that this thread is "where people are whining about GOG having "poor" pre-order bonuses compared to Steam," and the thread is right there, and anybody can read it and see that that isn't what's going on, and you say that "Half the people whining about the evil Hairbrained Studios Steam DRM there are going on about how great Steam preorder bonuses are and demanding an unlock system for GOG " when two people in that entire thread even mention an unlock system, and one of them only mentions it to say how much he hates it, and seriously, what are you doing and why are you doing it?

(Even as I compose that post, the answer comes to me: you're trolling, and you're doing it because I'm responding, so peace out, dude.)
Post edited April 14, 2013 by BadDecissions
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Tiefood: Did they ever mention once in the kickstarter that the future dlc would be drm free?
That's about as relevant as asking "Did the kickstarter ever mention even once that there'd be any patches/updates available for the DRM-free version?". As in, the people who pledged for the DRM-free version should be happy that they would have gotten a version of the game that would not be supported after release.

If the DRM-free version can't use any future official expansion packs (ie. DLC), then I personally consider it a worthless version of the game, making me extra happy that I am not one of the backers. If the game is practically Steam-only, fine, I'll buy it for a couple of bucks when it reaches that pricepoint, if I'm still interested and remember the game at that point.

Anyway, if they really are willing to give money back to those backers who backed it for the DRM-free version, then I think they've done their part and there's not much to discuss about this incident. Just take your money back, vote with your wallet. I'd do that too.
Post edited April 14, 2013 by timppu
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timppu: If the DRM-free version can't use any future official expansion packs (ie. DLC), then I personally consider it a worthless version of the game, making me extra happy that I am not one of the backers.
This. A gazillion times this.

by the way, one Polish gaming site claims that Shadowrun Returns has to be DRM infested because that's the deal they got from Microsoft when purchasing the license. So they basically should've known DRM free is not really an option. And if they didn't know, it's even more stupid - they promised something they didn't know they could deliver.

and it actually shows that Microsoft hates DRM free gaming and will never be on GOG.
Post edited April 14, 2013 by keeveek
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SimonG: I'm not saying I don't get some enjoyment out of all this. And I still might posting here occasionally. It's a bit like being a black gay jew at an KKK meeting.
In your case, I think "a nazi in a jewish activist meeting" would be more appropriate. ;)

Anyway, I've always known you've been in GOG forums just in order to troll, so nothing new there. Thanks for confirming that. Some people just seem inclined that way, a bit the same if some anti-Steam people would invade Steampowered forums just to troll there. I think it would be childish, but YMMV. ;)
Post edited April 14, 2013 by timppu