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Nowhere was there any indication that the DRM-free version WOULD have access to user-generated content.

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Fictionvision: So if they aren't allowed to sell the game DRM free, what would they have done if for whatever reason they didn't get an automatic pass on to Steam? "Hey guys, your game will need GFWL for future DLC!"?

Also wouldn't making sure you can sell the game where and how you want be something they got cleared up when making sure they could get the rights if they raised enough money?

Edit: Also this tells me that Microsoft won't be coming to GOG if they have issues with their games/licenses being sold DRM Free.
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GaminggUy45: Yeah I'm guessing Microsoft isn't one of the new publishers GOG will be announcing.
Gee, ya think after Age II HD was a Steam exclusive?
Post edited April 12, 2013 by jackalKnight
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Gonchi: DRM-Free was never demanded, it was offered up from the get go. HBS might not have lied to us, but they definitely deceived us.

Thankfully, pirat-erm, I mean, "modders" will fix it.
You may be correct about the initial offering about DRM-free, but there was no lying. They offered DRM free to backers, backers are getting DRM free PLUS a Steam key if we want it. So really we get two bloody copies. They also promised a DRM free editor, which we also get. They never promised all DLC would be DRM free nor does the main KS page even mention DLC once as far as I can see.

Given how most of the people bitching about this feel about paid DLC anyway, I'm guessing it's not a huge fucking loss to them.
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jackalKnight: Nowhere was there any indication that the DRM-free version WOULD have access to user-generated content.
They said free level editor, so it was implied, as it turns out, the implication is true, you can sideload whatever you want or make your own on the DRM free version of the game.
Post edited April 12, 2013 by orcishgamer
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Gonchi: DRM-Free was never demanded, it was offered up from the get go. HBS might not have lied to us, but they definitely deceived us.

Thankfully, pirat-erm, I mean, "modders" will fix it.
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orcishgamer: You may be correct about the initial offering about DRM-free, but there was no lying. They offered DRM free to backers, backers are getting DRM free PLUS a Steam key if we want it. So really we get two bloody copies. They also promised a DRM free editor, which we also get. They never promised all DLC would be DRM free nor does the main KS page even mention DLC once as far as I can see.

Given how most of the people bitching about this feel about paid DLC anyway, I'm guessing it's not a huge fucking loss to them.
*cough OMERTA debacle cough*
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orcishgamer: What about it? It seems you shouldn't be complaining about the $125 reward level, that's what.

I'm sorry you had issues and couldn't get the 15 or 20 together to back it, but to me it seems that you, personally, were promised jack and shit and really don't have a valid complaint. I get it sucks to be disappointed but all you had were assumptions and that's a far cry from a commitment on the developers' part.
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hedwards: We were promised a DRM free version of the game, nowhere was there any indication that the DRM free version would be crippled in this way.
thelovebat was not a backer, he was promised nothing at all.

Nowhere was it promised there'd even be DLC (at least not on the main page, it may have showed up in an update).
Post edited April 12, 2013 by orcishgamer
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the_bard: A Digital Downloadable copy of the game, DRM free on PC, Mac, or Linux + one totally sweet, exclusive desktop WALLPAPER for your PC, Mac, or mobile tablet.
great graphics! ^_^
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Adzeth: It's a fascinating approach. I never thought about renaming the demo as a "DRM free version". Marketing people just keep getting craftier.
this has got to be the #1 most accurate quote on all the threads.
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jackalKnight: Nowhere was there any indication that the DRM-free version WOULD have access to user-generated content.

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GaminggUy45: Yeah I'm guessing Microsoft isn't one of the new publishers GOG will be announcing.
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jackalKnight: Gee, ya think after Age II HD was a Steam exclusive?
Well i kinda had hope for the non HD version on GOG Damn it Microsoft.
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orcishgamer: You may be correct about the initial offering about DRM-free, but there was no lying. They offered DRM free to backers, backers are getting DRM free PLUS a Steam key if we want it. So really we get two bloody copies. They also promised a DRM free editor, which we also get. They never promised all DLC would be DRM free nor does the main KS page even mention DLC once as far as I can see.

Given how most of the people bitching about this feel about paid DLC anyway, I'm guessing it's not a huge fucking loss to them.
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jackalKnight: *cough OMERTA debacle cough*
Pretty much the case in point I was thinking about.

You know what, if you backed it, say so, say what level you backed it at if you want. Exactly how much skin do the ones doing the bitching actually have in this?

I pledged at $125.

If you can't write something resembling that (with an above 0 number in the pledge amount) I really fail to see what exactly you have to feel "lied to" about.
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Adzeth: It's a fascinating approach. I never thought about renaming the demo as a "DRM free version". Marketing people just keep getting craftier.
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ErekoseDM: this has got to be the #1 most accurate quote on all the threads.
I love how you substitute "most accurate" for "reinforces my biases".
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orcishgamer: Dude, they didn't know DRM free would be a backer demand, this was one of the very first Kickstarter games from a big group, and the very first (iirc) using a huge licensed property. When we demanded DRM free they went and got the best fucking deal they could get, doing so after they'd launched the KS campaign probably gave them a hell of a lot less leverage.

Promise fulfilled, seriously, don't be a tool to them about this. Even with the problems this is one of the best fucking deals going on in gaming right now, period! Yes, I backed this at a high level and I'm happy.
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hedwards: I'm going to be asking for my money back. I backed it because it was DRM free and I really don't care why they can't deliver they should have been honest about it in the first place. I don't think that it's right for me to pay the same price and get less than what the rest of the folks are getting.

If they had a licensing problem that should have been revealed when we had a chance to back out. Taking our money and then changing the terms is not cool. I really don't care what you think, I got taken advantage of.
You got what you backed, dude, I'm sorry, you backed a full and complete, DRM free game, and that is exactly what you are getting.

Do you even buy DLC as a matter of course? DLC wasn't even mentioned in the KS, as I've already said, but I'm having a hard time believing available purchasable DLC was high on the list of your expectations when you decided to back.
Post edited April 12, 2013 by orcishgamer
Hmm, so according to their response, it doesn't seem like any Microsoft game will be coming to GOG in a long while. :(
Post edited April 12, 2013 by SCPM
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orcishgamer: You got what you backed, dude, I'm sorry, you backed a full and complete, DRM free game, and that is exactly what you are getting.
No, I didn't. It doesn't matter how you couch it in pseudo-logic, the bottom line is that I'm not getting the complete game, I'm getting a partial game in DRM free format and a fully functioning one with DRM.

They knew the terms of the license when they did the KS and they should have disclosed it then. I backed in part to send a message that we want these sorts of games without DRM.

I really and truly don't care what sort of apologetic you can whip up, the bottom line is that this isn't what I backed. And it's an insult to those of us that thought we were getting a full DRM free game rather than an extended demo.
I'm not sure how I feel about this. I personally avoid anything Steam related, so I'm a bit dismayed. I'm sure the game will be great, but what will really irk me is if they start releasing quality DLC/expansions only for the Steam version. I'm not talking about DLC like Oblivion's horse armor, but like Fallout 3's Mothership Zeta.

I backed at the collector's edition level, with the USB dog tags, whichever level that was. I hope I don't end up regretting that...
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orcishgamer: Do you even buy DLC as a matter of course? DLC wasn't even mentioned in the KS, as I've already said, but I'm having a hard time believing available purchasable DLC was high on the list of your expectations when you decided to back.
I do when the DLC is good, and I don't appreciate being put in the position of having to use Steam for a supposed DRM free game and having to do without not just the DLC, but any mods that make use of the DLC.
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SCPM: Hmm, so according to their response, it doesn't seem like any Microsoft game will be coming to GOG in a long while. :(
Something that was promised by exactly NO ONE. Not GOG, not Microsoft or any of its employees, nor anyone from CD at their various conferences. It had precisely as much life in it as "LucasArts on GOG" rumors that only died when LucasArts did.
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orcishgamer: You got what you backed, dude, I'm sorry, you backed a full and complete, DRM free game, and that is exactly what you are getting.
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hedwards: No, I didn't. It doesn't matter how you couch it in pseudo-logic, the bottom line is that I'm not getting the complete game, I'm getting a partial game in DRM free format and a fully functioning one with DRM.

They knew the terms of the license when they did the KS and they should have disclosed it then. I backed in part to send a message that we want these sorts of games without DRM.

I really and truly don't care what sort of apologetic you can whip up, the bottom line is that this isn't what I backed. And it's an insult to those of us that thought we were getting a full DRM free game rather than an extended demo.
Under what insane logic is the game crippled? Because they refuse to sell you some future DLC, of unknown quality and volume, in the format you prefer? The game works and loads levels from an editor, do you seriously doubt more content than you'd ever care to play will be available for it?

"Extended demo"? And you're calling my argument "pseudo logic"? You gotta be fucking kidding me, you're not even rational if you really think what they're giving you amounts to a demo. Good fucking grief!
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SCPM: Hmm, so according to their response, it doesn't seem like any Microsoft game will be coming to GOG in a long while. :(
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jackalKnight: Something that was promised by exactly NO ONE. Not GOG, not Microsoft or any of its employees, nor anyone from CD at their various conferences. It had precisely as much life in it as "LucasArts on GOG" rumors that only died when LucasArts did.
I was referring to GOG saying that they were close to signing one of the big 3 publishers remaining (MS, T2, and LA), nothing more.
Post edited April 12, 2013 by SCPM
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SCPM: Hmm, so according to their response, it doesn't seem like any Microsoft game will be coming to GOG in a long while. :(
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jackalKnight: Something that was promised by exactly NO ONE. Not GOG, not Microsoft or any of its employees, nor anyone from CD at their various conferences. It had precisely as much life in it as "LucasArts on GOG" rumors that only died when LucasArts did.
GOG has hinted that MS might be close to agreeing to a license, but they've never hinted that the agreement was signed, so they may or may not be close to a deal.

Plus, this is a new game, so MS may or may not be less restrictive with older ones.