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orcishgamer: Well, I'm sorry, you're experience is limited (as is, apparently, your definition of DRM). This is well documented both on this forum and elsewhere on the internet, you don't have to believe me, go check it out for yourself.

Having to buy something does not make it DRM, dude, that would actually make GOG games DRMed.
Yeah, I edited myself. But that doesn't change the issue. See this post on the Kickstarter page.
Now, that may prompt the question, “What about DRM-free?” To honor our original promise of a DRM-free version of the game, the Harebrained Account Website will also contain a downloadable version of Shadowrun Returns that does not include Steam integration. While this version will include the Seattle story (and Berlin, via a one-time update), without Steam integration, it will be unable to browse and play community-created stories from within the game. Any future DLC will only be available through Steam.
Emphasis mine. Even if there are DRM-free games on Steam, Shadowrun will not be. It will have full Steam integration.

So, tough luck for us, I suppose.
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Decivre: Emphasis mine. Even if there are DRM-free games on Steam, Shadowrun will not be. It will have full Steam integration.

So, tough luck for us, I suppose.
Stop assuming stuff based on limited experience. Grimrock works without Steam and has "full Steam integration."

Wait for more info.
And this nicely demonstrates why I'm not willing to put up money for promises- too many lying cunts out there.
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DarrkPhoenix: And this nicely demonstrates why I'm not willing to put up money for promises- too many lying cunts out there.
LIARS, THEY LIE, THERE IS A FILTHY VIRUS INFECTING THE PEOPLE MAKING SHADOWRUN AND ITS CALLED LYINGITIS!!!
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StingingVelvet: Stop assuming stuff based on limited experience. Grimrock works without Steam and has "full Steam integration."

Wait for more info.
I'm not assuming anything! It's right there in the paragraph I quoted! "To honor our original promise of a DRM-free version of the game, the Harebrained Account Website will also contain a downloadable version of Shadowrun Returns that does not include Steam integration" That doesn't say "To honor our original promise of a DRM-free version of the game, the Steam version will not have DRM."

How can you assume anything but what they explicitly say?!
If it's a great game by itself, doing without Steam is fine.

However, I do think it's pretty crappy that Steam would have to be used for DLC. Why not offer it through the game's website?

Now, that may prompt the question, “What about DRM-free?” To honor our original promise of a DRM-free version of the game, the Harebrained Account Website will also contain a downloadable version of Shadowrun Returns that does not include Steam integration. While this version will include the Seattle story (and Berlin, via a one-time update), without Steam integration, it will be unable to browse and play community-created stories from within the game. Any future DLC will only be available through Steam.
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Decivre: Emphasis mine. Even if there are DRM-free games on Steam, Shadowrun will not be. It will have full Steam integration.

So, tough luck for us, I suppose.
Except for the part where they maintain DRM downloads for backers? Seriously, I'm not seeing the issue. I've already had another game released in exactly this way, Giana Sisters: Twisted Dreams. This is a non-issue, you're getting exactly what was promised and there will be an editor, so obviously there will be plenty of non-Steam content to play.
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orcishgamer: Except for the part where they maintain DRM downloads for backers? Seriously, I'm not seeing the issue. I've already had another game released in exactly this way, Giana Sisters: Twisted Dreams. This is a non-issue, you're getting exactly what was promised and there will be an editor, so obviously there will be plenty of non-Steam content to play.
Again, they explicitly state that you need to have the Steam version in order to access community content, as well as anything that releases after Berlin. So for whatever reason, they have decided not to go the route of games like Torchlight and Legend of Grimrock, neither of which require Steam for access to mods and content.

I see this as an issue because many people likely backed it partially because of the fact that it was promised to be DRM-free. Not a DRM-free crippleware version that doesn't have easy moddability or access to future material. If we were informed of this, people might not have been willing to back or pre-order it.
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DieRuhe: If it's a great game by itself, doing without Steam is fine.

However, I do think it's pretty crappy that Steam would have to be used for DLC. Why not offer it through the game's website?
Either Shadowrun Returns would have to pay for servers or use an actual DRM free network (Local area network or LAN play) for users to play with user content if they avoid Steam, a disguised modern form of DRM.

Starcraft 1 and Diablo 1 & 2 are still popular and use LAN.
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DieRuhe: If it's a great game by itself, doing without Steam is fine.

However, I do think it's pretty crappy that Steam would have to be used for DLC. Why not offer it through the game's website?
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tarohilt: Either Shadowrun Returns would have to pay for servers or use an actual DRM free network (Local area network or LAN play) for users to play with user content if they avoid Steam, a disguised modern form of DRM.

Starcraft 1 and Diablo 1 & 2 are still popular and use LAN.
I remember the good old days when a game company would have, you know, their own website, and that's how you would get updates, etc. I'm not so hot on user-generated content, but geez, you'd think someone who puts out a game would be able to provide updates and stuff without resorting to third parties. Well, in my world, anyway. :-)
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orcishgamer: Except for the part where they maintain DRM downloads for backers? Seriously, I'm not seeing the issue. I've already had another game released in exactly this way, Giana Sisters: Twisted Dreams. This is a non-issue, you're getting exactly what was promised and there will be an editor, so obviously there will be plenty of non-Steam content to play.
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Decivre: Again, they explicitly state that you need to have the Steam version in order to access community content, as well as anything that releases after Berlin. So for whatever reason, they have decided not to go the route of games like Torchlight and Legend of Grimrock, neither of which require Steam for access to mods and content.

I see this as an issue because many people likely backed it partially because of the fact that it was promised to be DRM-free. Not a DRM-free crippleware version that doesn't have easy moddability or access to future material. If we were informed of this, people might not have been willing to back or pre-order it.
When I put my money up, this is what I thought I was supporting. Nowhere in their original statements or promises did they state you would have to use Steam for user created content. And now you have too?

I am sure the game will be great, but I did not spend money to pre-order a Steam title. I supported a developer for a DRM free release with the ability to play user created content.
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C17: When I put my money up, this is what I thought I was supporting. Nowhere in their original statements or promises did they state you would have to use Steam for user created content. And now you have too?

I am sure the game will be great, but I did not spend money to pre-order a Steam title. I supported a developer for a DRM free release with the ability to play user created content.
Exactly! It's like with the Humble Bundles. Sure, you get a Steam code to access the game via that service. But what most people buy the bundles for is to get a DRM-free install file that you can use whatever damn way you want.

That's what I want out of a game, that's why I'm so heavily-invested in GoG, and that's why I preordered the collector's edition of Shadowrun. Because I wanted to support developers that don't treat their customers as criminals.
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DieRuhe: I remember the good old days when a game company would have, you know, their own website, and that's how you would get updates, etc. I'm not so hot on user-generated content, but geez, you'd think someone who puts out a game would be able to provide updates and stuff without resorting to third parties. Well, in my world, anyway. :-)
That was back in the day when all developers needed publishers to sell their games. Publishers can afford servers and everything. Indie teams can't.
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C17: When I put my money up, this is what I thought I was supporting. Nowhere in their original statements or promises did they state you would have to use Steam for user created content. And now you have too?
They did say that an "account system" would be needed for the community features, but they didn't specify what kind of service they would use. Anyway it was predictable that they COULD use Steam, specially considering the popularity of the service and accessibility of Steam Workshop.
Post edited April 11, 2013 by Neobr10
Here's a question somebody could answer for me. Why don't they use the humble store? They do the hosting for the game and DLC (Trine 2: goblin menace), and humble only takes a 5% cut compared to steam's 30%.
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jodaniel3: Here's a question somebody could answer for me. Why don't they use the humble store? They do the hosting for the game and DLC (Trine 2: goblin menace), and humble only takes a 5% cut compared to steam's 30%.
Steam is much more visible, doesn't really matter if they take more it still sells better in steam. I wouldn't heard even any humble stuff if I wouldn't read this forum and if it is released on a steam it seems like more like a normal game, not like some cheap ass indie. =P

I just watched some alpha footage of the game. Didn't look half bad.

Edit: like, like.. I own the vocabulary.. NOT.
Post edited April 11, 2013 by Antimateria