It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

I´m happy that I didn´t support this project. Anyway I´m sure that Stainless will do the same... I guess that my Carmageddon fanboyism ran over my anti-DRM activism.

[I]But if we hit a stretch funding goal of $1m we will be able to add the following:
A second city to explore. Which city? Well, that will be for Backers to decide! We’ll create a list of cool places for you to vote on. More on that later!
A more powerful and more accessible (less ugly) mission editor, so more people can tell deeper stories in the world of Shadowrun.[/I]

I don't see any * about second city - dlc form or steamworks only mission editor.

This whole idea seems absurd, imagine if B. Fargo took Torment's stretch goals and make them DLCs instead of putting them into the DRM-free Torment base game.
Post edited April 10, 2013 by Xuio
low rated
Gonchi: It's in there somewhere. I refuse to accept I imagined the whole thing.
Up until the game was founded, there wasn't any talk of expanding the game via DLC (except the stretch goals).

Quite the contrary, they were very adamant of delivering:

We are totally focused on our core goals of creating a kick-ass single player game with deep stories and thoughtful turn-based gameplay in world we can all play with. We hope you respect that decision, and again thank you for your enormous support and encouragement.

Which you get DRM free.

If they talked about expanding this with later DLCs than it was made after founding was closed.
Well, I didn't back this but I'd surely be kicking off if I had...
low rated
Xuio: A more powerful and more accessible (less ugly) mission editor, so more people can tell deeper stories in the world of Shadowrun.[/I]

I don't see any * about second city - dlc form or steamworks only mission editor.
The second city and the the editor will be available DRM free.
SimonG: All in all, the DRM free version will not have less content, but rather "higher maintenance". But is the staple of DRM free.
I think people need to wait and see what the FAQ says. The early wording makes it seem like further support after the Berlin campaign is not in the cards for the DRM-free version. If that is the case I can see why people would call it inferior, and that would be a shame if they cared about DRM when pledging.

That said no one knows yet. Wait and see.
Well, I'd probably care if I'd backed it. I didn't, mostly based on gut instinct, was pleasantly surprised by some the videos, and was probably going to wishlist it for eventual purchase. That being said, it's very likely I'm not going to waste my time or money on it unless a GOTY version comes out later for purchase on something that isn't Steam.

Actually, I take part of that back. I DO care about the effect it might have on future Kickstarted projects and the backlash this has the potential to cause for devs that ARE serious about projects that big publishers won't sell.
Post edited April 10, 2013 by LiquidOxygen80
Well I do hope that they clarify things. Only allowing user generated content via Steam is a real drawback for the DRM-free version. Not supporting the DRM-free version after the first release is just a sneaky way of forcing DRM on your players. And like many others, if they had mentioned Steam in their Kickstarter-campaign, I wouldn't have pledged. So, if they stick to this 'making an inferiour DRM-free version' approach, I think it is time to ask for a refund.
(Not that I think such a request would be successful. But it is at least a message. And if it comes to that, I will surely back no other project by this studio)
low rated
Anyway, I'm done discussing it.

I had imagined spending my free day playing games and ferociously masturbating. In the end, I spend it arguing and ferociously masturbating.

Lucky for me I had the smart part of the community to discuss with.

Anyway, as with the whole DRM ideology itself, this discussion is ultimately pointless and insignificant. I personally expect more Kickstarters going this way. Especially once the first batch is delivered and 98% have redeemed their Steam keys.

I am very, very happy to have backed this game, being in the credits, having a shirt, some tags and (hopefully) a truly great game
SimonG: I bitch about the GG downloader because it sucks big time. Not because it is DRM. And that even we agree that that usage of Steam for the download only is DRM. You still get a version without any Steam needed.
A version that leaves backers that went for the DRM Free shtick out in the cold in terms of being able to get in on DLC for the version of the game they supported with their money? Gee, that's...awesome ?

SimonG: Yes, that statement was made in this update. The backing process is somewhat over for a year now. Back when the game was pitched there was the game and the first DLC said to be DRM free. And guess what, they are.
They are just one more flavour of almosta, sorta, kinda but in the end not quite DRM Free set loose in the wild, nothing worthy of backing up with coin up front for those who backed it on principle alone.

SimonG: Seriously, the only mention of Steam brings up controversy. And people are so disappointed because their self made expectations aren't fulfilled. Because Shadowrun isn't their next apostle of the DRM free ideology.

Again, an account management system for additional stuff was mentioned on the initial kickstarter page.
When the Witcher 2 was about to be released GOG and CDPR faced a shit load of complaints right here because the patcher, as proposed to work at the time, meant the game wans't in no way shape or form a DRM Free game.

When there's a mismanagement, deliberate or not, of people's legitimate expectations people will react, the fact that this clusterfuck involves steam is purely incidental. If they were to create their own steam fac simile infrastructure people would be confused and/or disspaointed just the same.
high rated
This is an example of things that will cause people to second guess and not fund kickstarters. In the future, people that want to back a game and see a DRM free version as a feature they care about will hesitate. Does it really mean DRM Free unless we get on Steam, then we will only support that version and leave the one you wanted when backing to collect dust.
Post edited April 10, 2013 by Fictionvision
Well, I backed Shadowrun Returns and would do it again. Even with Steam pointed out as I don't belong to the Steam-haters.

However, if you promise DRM free you should also deliver just that.
It remains to be seen what's where, but from the current standing, I won't pick one of the DLCs if they're tied to Steam - at least not before a 75% off sale. Mod-support over Steam workshop only? Probably pass that one too. There's reasons more and more modders turn away from the Skyrim workshop and switch to Nexus and why Nexus has about 10k more mods available then the mighty Valve with Steam.
SimonG: The second city and the the editor will be available DRM free.
To Kickstarter backers and pre-purchasers of the Collector's Edition only.

Everyone else has to get it through Steam, with DRM.
Decivre: Everyone else has to get it through Steam, with DRM.
And have to buy the second city separately...
Post edited April 10, 2013 by SirPrimalform
I think "from within the game" is worth noting.