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Fixed! Sorry about that :)
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Telika: Snipped for sanity reasons.
Still playing catch up, but I wanted to mention this. If we have Mafia, then the only information they have, that they care for, is who isn't on their side. The issue to me comes from how the power roles are distributed, and how a claim might potentially offer clues that bring that to light. It does seem innocent enough though, but I'm not sure that we should take our chances so soon (But I admit, that's more traditional name claiming thoughts talking).

If we have a Cult it honestly doesn't matter what info we put out, since people's alignments can change, so we really can't trust any of the information we have once the night comes.

As far as Mafia/Cult...I'm looking at this as if we have Mafia. Otherwise it quite frankly doesn't matter as I can't trust my reads of you all from day to day because of who might have been added to the cult. Simply put? Occam's Razor. Play against a Mafia until we can prove we might actually have a cult.

As far as concerns, I admit that I find Ixamyakxim's vote to be pretty scummy...a 3rd position vote that has no reason other then 'He had the post votes at the time, and I want the day done early.' What could be more scummy then that? Not quite sure how that falls for OMGUS in this case though.

More thoughts when I can finish rereading, I don't want to vote yet because I'm not done (and work and other things are making my ability to do so a bit intermittent, although I did run into Flubb's mason comment.)
One thing I was confused about is why would someone purposely act scummy to get lynched, which is why I unvoted for Flub.

After some reading, I don't think there's anything too useful in being a scum or non-scum dead; once a player's identity is revealed, their influence is significantly lowered. I don't know whether scum dead will be allowed to PM their partners, though, so that's something they still might be able to do.

I am voting Flub again because it seems he's trying to make the game setup unclear to the other players.

First, he's says that there's recruitment,
http://www.gog.com/forum/general/gog_forum_mafia_21_the_end_of_the_world/post9

then he doesn't even take that into account when deciding number of scum,
http://www.gog.com/forum/general/gog_forum_mafia_21_the_end_of_the_world/post42

then he says that having it would be junk to worry about recruitment,
http://www.gog.com/forum/general/gog_forum_mafia_21_the_end_of_the_world/post123

I think Telika also picked up on this, but I can't find where.

Also, my previous reasons from this post:
http://www.gog.com/forum/general/gog_forum_mafia_21_the_end_of_the_world/post147

If Flub is not scum by the end of this, then I am going to feel like a silly goose, indeed. And sorry for more than one reason, I suppose.
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Robbeasy: Im very busy at work today so not got much time, but I am not very happy with all this info being slung around - the idea is to keep as much to ourselves as we can, any info given out for free can only help the Mafia.

And - I believe that includes factions , affiliations, whatever. It could blow it wide open and give the Mafia a head start.

Lets not make it easy for them to pick their first target, eh?!
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flubbucket: Vote:Robbeasy
Again, Flubb, you ain't helping yourself. Please explain why this post makes you vote for me? OMGUS vote at all? Just posting like this, with no reasoning to back you up makes you look worse you know. I'm willing to listen, but by god you aint helping yourself. You haven't made one post all day that gives you town points, and plenty that give you scum points.

I acknowledge what other people are saying - you're actually acting TOO scummy, it must be a ploy. Especially with the added nugget that to die doesnt necessarily mean you are out of the game.

But - we have to make choices here - a no lynch is definitely not a good idea. Out of all the first day cases for lynch , yours is the strongest by far for me!

pre-post edit - for anyone not understanding, OMGUS means 'Oh My God U Suck' and is levelled at players who merely vote for players who are voting for them, with no reason other than retaliation...
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Robbeasy: I acknowledge what other people are saying - you're actually acting TOO scummy, it must be a ploy. Especially with the added nugget that to die doesnt necessarily mean you are out of the game.
I really don't get this, as a non-voting reason.

If he's town and intends to get lynched as part of his grand townie plan, then by all means, let him get lynched.

If he's mafia and intends to get lynched as part of his grand mafia plan, then, uh, let's not lynch the mafia, because, hm, they could win, so, lynch townies instead ?
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Robbeasy: I acknowledge what other people are saying - you're actually acting TOO scummy, it must be a ploy. Especially with the added nugget that to die doesnt necessarily mean you are out of the game.
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Telika: I really don't get this, as a non-voting reason.

If he's town and intends to get lynched as part of his grand townie plan, then by all means, let him get lynched.

If he's mafia and intends to get lynched as part of his grand mafia plan, then, uh, let's not lynch the mafia, because, hm, they could win, so, lynch townies instead ?
hmm.... good point. maybe it is for the best to string him up no matter what.
So, now that we've determined that an attempt to get lynched does warrant a lynch (whether townie or mafia, as "not lynching mafia" isn't a particularly great strategy either), I have this question for Flubbucket :

Is your intention to get lynched ?
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A_Future_Pilot: IShoot4lolz
Is he still in the game?
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Telika: So, now that we've determined that an attempt to get lynched does warrant a lynch (whether townie or mafia, as "not lynching mafia" isn't a particularly great strategy either), I have this question for Flubbucket :

Is your intention to get lynched ?
No
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Telika: So, now that we've determined that an attempt to get lynched does warrant a lynch (whether townie or mafia, as "not lynching mafia" isn't a particularly great strategy either), I have this question for Flubbucket :

Is your intention to get lynched ?
No of course not.



I had a big long pontification written here, but I deleted it because it just sounded like a rant.

I love playing but sometimes I the fun just dissipates.
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Telika: So, now that we've determined that an attempt to get lynched does warrant a lynch (whether townie or mafia, as "not lynching mafia" isn't a particularly great strategy either), I have this question for Flubbucket :

Is your intention to get lynched ?
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flubbucket: No of course not.

I had a big long pontification written here, but I deleted it because it just sounded like a rant.

I love playing but sometimes I the fun just dissipates.
Come on Flubbster - its things like the rants that make it entertaining..;)

Not like you to get down over a little in-game pressure....??
Since we have no definite idea who is scum at this time, wouldn't the odds favour not lynching someone yet? What I mean is, since (I presume based on the victory conditions) there are more townies than scum at the start, odds are we'll pick a townie? But then I guess we have the problem of when will be a good time for the first lynch? Do we just need to do it, for the benefit of the information it will reveal?

For the moment:
Unvote: amok
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01kipper: Since we have no definite idea who is scum at this time, wouldn't the odds favour not lynching someone yet? What I mean is, since (I presume based on the victory conditions) there are more townies than scum at the start, odds are we'll pick a townie?
The only time when the odds are even is when mafia has won, since mafia wins if they are the same size as town, so a 50-50 chance of lynching mafia or town. So going after the odds is a very bad thing (unless you are scum).
Lynching someone means he has a majority of votes, which makes it likely that at least one scum voted on that lynch. Checking the reasons for each vote can shed some insight on the voters, and may reveal scum.
No lynch is useful when the town can reliably get information during the night, which usually means a confirmed investigative role, and an existing (but not claimed) protective one. For day 1, a lynch is preferred, though we rarely manage to get enough traction for one.
and even if it is a completely random lynch (and we assume 4 scum in this game), the chance of lynching a scum by luck is 4/17. If we lynch none, then that chance is.... well... 0. so even if you go by odds, the best odds is for a random lynch than a no-lynch.

I think it is always better for a lynch than a no-lynch. A no-lynch is just giving scum a free shoot.
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flubbucket: No
Aw but I like pontifications. Though yeah, gameplay-wise, they don't help much...

Anyway so there were are :

a) Either what is reproached to you are genuine actual involuntary scum tells,

b) Or you are victim of an "as we all know"/"and you know it perfectly well" kind of rhetorical trick. That is, skipping the "his posts are scummy, aren't they?" to go straightforward to "his posts are scummy, the only question I'll ever accept is are they on purpose or not". Politicians are very adept of that sort of skip-to-the-next-question trick, to deflect the questionning (and attention) from the premises.

I'd suspect, to some level, any of those who did use this manipulative and absurd notion of "he does it on purpose", and especially the first ones, at its function is precisely to impose a falsely already-established-consensus to the mind of the listener.

My vote stands for now, and also my potential vote against you (because you did act scummy to my eyes, and I remember your tear-jacking scandalized rants between your lynch and your mafia flip, in the first game), but I intend to check the history of the "he does it on purpose" argument, later today.

If someone has more time in the meanwhile, he's welcome to.