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Krypsyn: He would have been lynched, been shown to be evil (without a role-reveal as a double-agent)
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DarkoD13: I don't think that would have been the case. The way I understand it is that CSPVG would have been revealed as Gorak Town upon death, just like the evil infiltrators are revealed when they get killed. Otherwise the mod would be lying in a way. I haven't seen a spy role in action though, you could be right.
Or, it would have been something wonky, like "He is weakly tainted by evil". The only thing I have ever seen that comes close to this is the Mafia Traitor. I don't think many people would have considered a pro-town infiltrator into the main Mafia faction, for obvious game-balance reasons.
I have been reading the Ghoul Tread. It is... fascinating.
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amok: I have been reading the Ghoul Tread. It is... fascinating.
LOL it gets better at the end. But yes when I too first waded through it I found it to be... enlightening ;)
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Ixamyakxim: To this moment, I STILL swear there is a cult involving RWarehall and Krypsyn - how the heck were you defending Warehall to the last! I so thought you were trying to squeeze information out of people by "pretending" to trust Warehall...
Part of it was my bad assumption of how many scum were actually out there. I truly couldn't see Rwarehall, as scum, being so cavalier with the lives of his scum-buddies. He was very good at playing the 'good townie' and 'good Terran', but I have to wonder if the situation had been more dire in terms of scum numbers, if he wouldn't have had to take some sort of action. There really is a huge psychological difference in having only 1 or 2 scumbuddies alive rather than 4 or 5.

Regardless, he just plain had me duped for most of the game, although I was suspecting him a bit Day/Night 4, and that is why I wanted him to be the first to choose target and be the one to decide who sent the PM. It was too little, too late.
Post edited August 11, 2014 by Krypsyn
See, I told you Telika was no investigator. I pegged it in night chat right after Telika saved SPF.

Post 102:
So that probably means SPF is Zyph. Since so many are defending JMich, I figure he is also Zeph. I'll guess Vitek will be the 4th Zeph and its nmillar playing the games in the other night chat. I think that is why there are so many scum this game. 4 people know each other are town and if there is ever a race claim, the combined information with 4 clear and investigations makes it easy to correctly lynch. We have to kill the investigators if possible. Maybe if I keep drawing protection, I'll be the last one left and can mislead them.

Post 106:
In terms of the official PM thing. The official PM could say, "Your race is pure. The Zyph cannot be swayed. You are of one-mind." for all we know. Just seems to me Telika has a blind spot for certain people. For all the analysis, certain people are completely ignored like Telika knows more than is being let on.
Thank you for the game, everyone. Even if it did drag a bit.

The reason I did not reveal the names of the scum team was simple: Doing so would have made the game very short and boring. I attempted to give hints as to whom the scum were - I used the word 'bad' in all such instances, and managed to allude to four of the scum team, namely Twilightbard (posts 125 and 785); Amok (posts 340 and 395); Ixamyakxim (post 590); and Robbeasy (post 187) - but think I tried to be rather too subtle, and none of you caught on.

I now wish that I had chanced asking AFP if I could have killed one of my fellow Goraks, instead of just deciding not to kill anyone at all. If allowed to do this, I was thinking of going after Twilightbard, but I decided that it would be a bit unsporting to so take advantage of the scum team.
RWarehall had me fooled the whole time. Great game guys. And special thanks to DarkoD13 for stepping in to mod this monster. What a whopper!!

Of course thanks to A_Future_Pilot for his setup.

I must admit I'm still having a time wrapping my head around all this.


All that matters is as usual I'm town!!
First thing, big thanks to Darko for taking over the game. You saved it from dying completely and allowed us to complete it even if it was seriously crippled by then.
I understand it was hard and there were many difficult things to handle and I am grateful that you even tried. While I don't agree with decision to kill RWarehall (town bring itself to that state of things) and you should just let us lose sooner, I think you did well overall.
Also, I am sorry you had bad experience with mafia so far but I hope you will stick around, you are interesting player to play with.

Second, the infiltrator in mafia team just doesn't work. It is interesting concept in that he has to lie to both sides (in usual restricted circumstances:-)) but I don't believe it is viable role.
Also the mafia number was just too high. I understand it was somewhat offset by 4-players masons and 4 cops, but the sheer number was just to high and it would be much better to empower mafia (or weaken town) by other means than increasing numbers. I am also not ,uch of fan of mafia distribution because it goes against flavour.
It is good AFP tried something new and I am generaly in favour of trying new cool stuff in mafia, but to be blunt, I think the game was not consulted with anyone and it showed. I had in my last game role that would very likely break the game and I fancied it and really wanted to use it. But I consulted the whole setup with Telika and he repeatedly pointed out that there could be problems with it and finally changed it to something probably less interesting but not gamebreaking.
I think that every game with at least bit unusual role or mechanics should be reviewed by at least one person before it goes live.

Anyway, tanks to all who tried to play this game and persisted. It was certainly the most replacement heavy game struck with severe dose of inactivity and it is wonder we got to the end. Overall, if I should name people with acceptable activity level, it would be flub, Telika, Krypsyn, RWarehall and Darko and that's probably it (sorry if I forgot someone active). Every other player (me included) had his share of blame for the game slow pace and should participate more if we want to keep (or more likely make again) our games entertaining.
Added to completed games.



[spoiler]
Ignore the crazy rambling above.
[/spoiler]
I'm inconsolable. It's my first mafia defeat.

Yes the game was completely unbalanced. There's a simple test to check if a setting is. Make me play a run of it. If I win, it's balanced.

I'm still relieved there was no cult (although oh how misleading the flavor was on that - and how the yellow box freaked me out because of it, I even considered that rware could have been killed in a backfiring sway attempt). But the number of mafia and the number of inactives made the game unmanageable. I still don't believe a mafia game with more than 4 total players is viable in gog's population. Not enough involved forumers here. I wish I had registered in the old times. Look at this gogmafia history list.

Other detail. Ix hosts now a werewolves game. That's what I was trying to get at when asking him, here, what kind of mafia games he had played before. I was troubled by his very specific and recurring usage of the word "seer", and wondered if this unusual term came from flavor text or from past settings...

Anyway, nice game save by Darko. I thought the game (and mafia on gog, in general) was dead. I had even unticked it. I think the modkilling was a bad move, in a lose lose situation with no good move available. It's all too bad. I feel I haven't seen yet how this setting actually plays out. But it happens, and I have the same impression about my asylum mafia, for other reasons (some key mechanisms were killed right at the start through lucky murders).

I hope your werewolf game will prove me wrong about the viability of mafia games on gog...
Post edited August 12, 2014 by Telika
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Krypsyn: Yeah, or maybe he thought it would be too WIFOMy. I mean, seriously, had someone come out and said "I am scum, and so are these other 6 guys!" at the start of a 17 player game, I would have thought he was lying. He would have been lynched, been shown to be evil (without a role-reveal as a double-agent), and then most of the town would have discounted that ANY of the people he named were scum at all!
I personally would find much wiser to lynch one of person he names. There wouldn't be so much to lose and much more to gain so it would be foolish to ignore him and ruin that opportunity. So for me, it would be game winning action for sure.
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Krypsyn: Yeah, or maybe he thought it would be too WIFOMy. I mean, seriously, had someone come out and said "I am scum, and so are these other 6 guys!" at the start of a 17 player game, I would have thought he was lying. He would have been lynched, been shown to be evil (without a role-reveal as a double-agent), and then most of the town would have discounted that ANY of the people he named were scum at all!
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Vitek: I personally would find much wiser to lynch one of person he names. There wouldn't be so much to lose and much more to gain so it would be foolish to ignore him and ruin that opportunity. So for me, it would be game winning action for sure.
It's interesting noting the two responses. At one point when I thought I was "done for" I actually considered outing a scum or two in a list, including a townie that I thought would be harder to lynch. Downside, we lose a scum (but take focus off Warehall who I thought would be done for early on - I had mixed feelings about that as I thought he might be a likely candidate for infiltrator along with CSV). Upside, a townie's townie gets lynched to "test" my list.

I was afraid this would tip our cap for how many scum we were, though, so I opted for the "Sith" path instead - which didn't work so well as the Zryfs KNEW they didn't have scum in there - of course, drawing attention to Vitek and JMich from non-Zryfs wasn't a bad consolation prize.
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TwilightBard: -snip- but I'm still amazed that no Terran thought it was odd that there was another investigative role when there were already a race of cops.
I suspected that Telika was a godfather (and before we knew that there was no cult mechanic, that he was infested later), but given that we had already investigated him we assumed that as a town he couldn't be lying - hence he must have had some method to make his claim.
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TwilightBard: -snip- but I'm still amazed that no Terran thought it was odd that there was another investigative role when there were already a race of cops.
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Red_Baron: I suspected that Telika was a godfather (and before we knew that there was no cult mechanic, that he was infested later), but given that we had already investigated him we assumed that as a town he couldn't be lying - hence he must have had some method to make his claim.
I too thought it was "odd" that there were seemingly two means of "investigating" (as it turned out, it was investigation and a "pure" race). I hoped to play the two "town" claims against each other and frame one claim as a false one... but that didn't work so well for me ;) I'm pretty sure that's when I sealed my fate as an early lynch!
Just finished reading the Zyrphan QT and really enjoyed it. Some of my favorite bits:

(Flubbucket is so good at making me feel super bad for suspecting him.)

Telika you should always feel bad for suspecting me, I'm PermaTown


But then again, that was flub giving play suggestions ;)

Call me anytime JMich. The advice is free as long as the beer is flowing.


Next day, I'll vote Flub until he gets lynched, and that's all.

I do believe I'm a little bit moist....


and flub is weird as shit.

Sploosh!!!


Well, I'm quite certain that Flubbucket is mafia,

And all that time flub was town...



I found it fascinating reading ....veteran players steeped in paranoia and theory crafting. Even if this game wasn't perfect I was entertained and am still reading all that was going on in these day chat threads. Fun stuff.

Next!!