This is somewhat true, but if you buy/have a ton of games it becomes more and more difficult to back such up...then there's updates/etc.

True, but it's good for testing out games for cheap before buying on PC/console.

Some dislike the clutter, this is true, and some just like the "ease" of install and play on console....all seem equally valid/good reasons for doing so imo. And yes, OWNING is also good(I own a bunch of old discs for PC/etc, which is why I do both. :)

True, but eh i'm not too worried. Owning is fun and all, but I don't need everything I can amass like I used to do, and I realize I cannot take it with me so I don't bother as much anymore(beyond digital installers from Gog/etc).

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To me it's not how often I might play something but if.....if I might I buy it so I can play it and not have to pay more later on or lose the chance to buy it later on storefronts.

As in the old adage "It is better to have and not need something than to need something and not have it"

What a great post! Thank you for posting it, I think it should be posted on bigger sites like Reddit simply because the general public does not seem to be aware of how we have spoiled publishers and deveopers.

Totally agree with you on how purchasing software should work. You give a team of developers the money they believe is appropriate for their game, you send it to them, and they send you an installer. That's it, PERIOD. No paranoia required from either side, just one simple transaction. Of course, the most popular kinds of games are online multiplayer games, but it shouldn't work any different with those either. You pay, you get the game, and you connect to whatever kind fo server you want. Either your own private server, community public servers or developer-owned servers. The only thing that matters is that as long as someone is willing to host a match, it should be playable even if the developers have been bankrupt for years
I like this argument a lot. I would rather live in a world where I am at least not being lied to about the current state of things. I would rather we move to a Netflix-model where I pay a low monthly price than spending $60 on games that I am also just renting.

I definitely wouldn't want that, for anything! That doesn't leave room for people who spend little, and for whom that "low monthly price" is already more than they'd spare for non-necessary things like this, and that's actually most of the world, but even in general, it is a specific rent and means that if one month you can't pay, it's all gone, at least until you can pay again.

Yeah subscription translate into never truly owning a game. I just want something to permanently store it online and make it accessible.

Most DRM (Steam) can still remove games from your library (happened a few times actually), making the customer feel they never owned it. I wouldn't call what I want as DRM, but having something stored in a reliable online platform and is accessible indefinitely would be my perfect platform.

so far I never really had an instance of DRM, be it Steam or any other client or copy protection method, that really stopped me from playing my games, only exception being Games for Windows Live where that piece of worthless garbage kept claiming that the serial key assigned to my GTA 4 purchase from Amazon (!!) was invalid and I had to borrow my friends cd-key to actually activate the game and play it properly (little did i know about xiveless back then).

its all about protecting those day one/ first week sales
i can only remember a few rare occasions when this happened and more often when it happens it because the key was acquired fraudulently (and Ive been on steam for over 10 years now)

I've never really had any issues with DRM per se; on the other hand, I've bought most games here. I do, however, have a small Steam library, and haven't experienced any issues. We've moved around alot (finally settled) in the past 15 years, and tbh, it's been nice not to have to tote extra boxes of software nick-nacks; I can just download it again if my computer blows up, or whatever. There's always a trade-off for convenience I guess. And, I don't have to go forum-hoppping for patches or updates in most cases, that's nice.

What I DO have issues with, pertaining to DRM, are flimsy EULA/TOS agreements between service-provider and user; most of these online 20-50 page service-contracts are verbose and hyperbolous legalese obfuscating the terse disclaimer: "Take it or leave it, shit-stain." . . . whether it's a software-store, or a particular company hosting a server for their products. I don't think commercial law has really caught up with retail at the virtual/digital level. If someone buys a digital product, the consumer ought to be indemnified should the company, holding user's purchased product in trust, prevent, withhold, or refuse access to product. The indemnity should be a refund, or an option to obtain product, without cost, for local use.

Of course, this is an over-simplification. . . I mean, what if, say, Steam becomes insolvent? The indemnity becomes moot. Contrariwise, Oldsmobile goes down the tubes, or rather, the car-dealership goes bankrupt, but my neighbour still gets to keep and drive his 442; it didn't just dissipate into aether.

I'm annoying myself. . . got'sta go escape into something. . .

Some of their games(build games/etc) can be backed uop with little effort, and the more flexible among us can also backup the DRMd stuff as well. :)

Right on.

Yeah, I was kind of thinking of the more casual gamer I guess. I used to back up stuff alot, but I've gotten lazy I guess. . . rather be a victim lol.

"Fight fight.....don't go quietly into that cold dark night"

Thanks! I almost succumbed. . . to. . . unseen, menacing forces!

Anyway, I did find this interesting and encouraging, which is probably old news to most gentle readers here.

Interesting. There has been a similar (not identical) verdict many years ago in Germany regarding "getting a purchase to run". In this case it was an expensive application which IIRC came with some kind of Dongle. For some reason the Dongle didn't work and the company which bought the product asked, but never got, a working version from the software manufacturer. So they applied a crack - but the software phoned home and reported this. So the company (the customer!) was sued for reverse engineering and breaking the copy protection.
The court verdict was similar: Since the company legally obtained the product they had the right to get it to run, including reverse engineering and changing (cracking) it, since there was no other means to make it usable.
In case of Steam this would hinge on two issues: Are you actually "buying a product" (French court ruling, currently appealed against) or a subscription (Valve's POV)? Only if it's "a product" you do "own" it and may legally break the copy protection if all else fails.
Then there is the problem of obtaining the product in the first place. In case Steam goes down, your account is locked etc... even if you "own" the product (and can prove it, receipts etc), how do you obtain it? The download from Steam is barred, downloading from "another source" is certainly a very dark grey area, P2P is out of the question, because it means uploading at the same time which you do have definitely NO right to. So the "product" definition only really helps for games you have currently installed and won't let you play because of some Steam issue - only those you could (if it's a "product" you "bought") crack to make them working again.

I don't see what is hard about it. I do it now myself, for over 800 GOG games, updates and all. In fact I have 4 backups of each on a series of separate hdds, and a separate hdd for a Linux backup. Normally I would only do 3 copies, but I have outlaid a lot of money on games, and I have less faith in GOG surviving in the long run, but hope they do.

I only wish that Updates were done properly at GOG, as half the time they never give you the info. That is okay if you are just getting a small patch file, but a huge potential waste of storage for a full game that might run into many Gigs. There is just no excuse for not have details in the Changelog.


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In a way, that is a different argument, to what I was saying and meaning. I was talking number of uses on average, which can be seen akin to a rental situation. Having something for that rainy day, is kind of a different matter.

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When it comes to Steam, unlike many my main concern is not them one day disappearing. I confidently feel they are too big to be allowed to fail. The fallout would be huge for the gaming industry, and the ramifications for developers and publishers would be dire.

Nope, my concern is lack of control and the possibility of being locked out by some stupid mistake or error. My lack of trust runs deep, and the gaming industry has never given me a reason to trust them, quite the opposite. That said, the GOG model does show an example of trust, and I like to reward that by extending my trust to those who properly support GOG.

Np. ;)

And thanks for finding that.....I will post it to my good news thread in a bit. :)

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I assume Dling from "other sources" is covered under such, and with P2P one can block uploading.

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I am assuming you do it with scripts/apps(the DLs)? If so, some people have same or bigger size libraries and do it manually(for various reasons)....that makes it harder to a degree.

Also 4 copies of each? Why not still 3 and just replace one set if it fails?

that is why I think the what just updated thread is a godsend and the ones running it are amazing people for doing so.

Ok then. :)

Eh, if the industry changes a big amount and they pull a blockbuster on people then it could still happen, though yes it is unlikely. I mainly crack bought games sometimes myself in case they try pulling content or entire games like they did in the past, or if I say the wrong thing and I get a ban there.

Sounds good as well.

I am wondering if we aren't maybe a little too strict when it comes to entertainment, considering that we are probably statistically more likely to die before Steam will... But you never know.

I am actually in the camp that thinks DRM is a lesser problem compared to the digital-only present we are in. I am not a collector - in fact, I hate the idea of collecting stuff and filling up your house with junk - but I do see a huge benefit of having real world representation of your interests. I grew up in the digital era for the most part (caught the tail-end of boxed PC games) and am pretty sad that I have nothing to show for my love of computer games besides the Myst 25th Anniversary Collection.

I think that while digital is more convenient and better overall rationally speaking, I think a lot is lost from not having physical games or entertainment in general. If I ever lose my memory, I would never know that I loved PC games since I wouldn't remember my account details for any game service, and only see the few GOG games if I remember to check my external hard drive. My living and bed rooms would be empty if it weren't for my books, few console games and few blurays of movies I still own.

I can't help but watch YouTube videos of people's big box collections and be jealous. I get
nostalgic for a time I never experienced, and if these players had all their games digitally I could never have gotten that feeling I get when I watch these videos. Irrational for sure, but I would argue that this feeing isn't worthless and that it is sad that we have no other option but "ignore it".

... Unless of course I can finally get a color printer to print cover art and burn my GOG games to discs.

Point is, I see digital distribution as the DRM for memories, in a way. Even if I have no means of playing an old game I loved, just having the box would evoke all feelings I felt when I first played it.

I used to be fine with CD key checks, and still would be if anyone sold physical PC games any more. The kind of DRM that bothers me is the kind where you risk losing ownership of/access to your games - which does include things like Steam, no matter how 'unobtrusive' it may be. Not to mention how devs/publishers can go back and change the game years after the original release, leaving you unable to access the old version even if you prefer it.