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Celeste has only one real boss fight (and no normal enemies), but that one boss fight feels so satisfying and fun to play through.

Maybe I should replay that part of the game just for fun? (One nice thing about Celeste is that you can just start at any major checkpoint you reached without having to start the entire game over; typically useful for red berries and other collectibles, but also can be used for fun, or to practice a difficult section for speedruns or golden strawberries.)
Regarding the point of animations, i am one of the people who believe good animations can bring great value to a game, but only if they are actually controlled by the player. Ubisoft games for instance often times have the problem of including many beautifully animated moves in combat which are triggered at random and without much player choice or control, and that makes them feel like a redundant cutscene after a while instead of actual combat moves.

If i sneak up on an enemy in Assassin's Creed i press one button and the game displays an elaborate takedown animation where i stab the enemy multiple times, snap their neck and drag their corpse out of sight. That's wasted potential. If i sneak up on an enemy in Metal Gear Solid V, i actually have to grab them, drag them away, crouch down and choke them unconscious manually as seperate actions which i can control and have alternatives to. All those things are smoothly animated as well and result in the entire action feeling much more dynamic.
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InSaintMonoxide: Regarding the point of animations, i am one of the people who believe good animations can bring great value to a game, but only if they are actually controlled by the player. Ubisoft games for instance often times have the problem of including many beautifully animated moves in combat which are triggered at random and without much player choice or control, and that makes them feel like a redundant cutscene after a while instead of actual combat moves.

If i sneak up on an enemy in Assassin's Creed i press one button and the game displays an elaborate takedown animation where i stab the enemy multiple times, snap their neck and drag their corpse out of sight. That's wasted potential. If i sneak up on an enemy in Metal Gear Solid V, i actually have to grab them, drag them away, crouch down and choke them unconscious manually as seperate actions which i can control and have alternatives to. All those things are smoothly animated as well and result in the entire action feeling much more dynamic.
What about animations that are the result of enemy actions?

The worst offender I'm aware of is obviously Final Fantasy 7's Super Nova (a spell with a 2 minute animation, during which you can't confirm commands), but I could also mention Zelda: Ocarina of Time's water temple boss, who can grab you and throw you around for a bit before you regain control. The Water Temple is such a fun dungeon aside from the boss (and the fact that putting on or taking off Iron Boots requires opening the menu; those boots should have been a C button item); it's a shame they had to ruin it with such a lousy boss fight.
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InSaintMonoxide: Regarding the point of animations, i am one of the people who believe good animations can bring great value to a game, but only if they are actually controlled by the player. Ubisoft games for instance often times have the problem of including many beautifully animated moves in combat which are triggered at random and without much player choice or control, and that makes them feel like a redundant cutscene after a while instead of actual combat moves.

If i sneak up on an enemy in Assassin's Creed i press one button and the game displays an elaborate takedown animation where i stab the enemy multiple times, snap their neck and drag their corpse out of sight. That's wasted potential. If i sneak up on an enemy in Metal Gear Solid V, i actually have to grab them, drag them away, crouch down and choke them unconscious manually as seperate actions which i can control and have alternatives to. All those things are smoothly animated as well and result in the entire action feeling much more dynamic.
ubisoft is just a company with a specific public in mind, i have a couple of the assasins games as well as the new heroes, settlers, even tried a bit of not watchdogs but that online thing of theirs with the missions and a world in flames, lets leave it at that they have good writers, probably good programmers as well as a superb economics supervisor in their ranks but the genius that started it for them has left the building for a long time already... great for the beginner gamer or the casual soon to be father
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anzial: Combat system is boring only when the player is too lazy to learn it lol. Once mastered, anything can be enjoyed but some games do have a steep learning curve that not everyone is mentally strong enough to cope with.
naah

i personally don't enjoy any repetition fight in a combat minded game

i still remember the first dark souls review i read vividly, the game is so realistic and rewarding once your finally able to find the rythm and break the mind of your prey.... uhu

Like i'm a very glad person if the opponents feel almost real such as you can find in for honor and even destiny but bosses

to each their own
Post edited November 22, 2020 by Radiance1979
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InSaintMonoxide: Regarding the point of animations, i am one of the people who believe good animations can bring great value to a game, but only if they are actually controlled by the player. Ubisoft games for instance often times have the problem of including many beautifully animated moves in combat which are triggered at random and without much player choice or control, and that makes them feel like a redundant cutscene after a while instead of actual combat moves.

If i sneak up on an enemy in Assassin's Creed i press one button and the game displays an elaborate takedown animation where i stab the enemy multiple times, snap their neck and drag their corpse out of sight. That's wasted potential. If i sneak up on an enemy in Metal Gear Solid V, i actually have to grab them, drag them away, crouch down and choke them unconscious manually as seperate actions which i can control and have alternatives to. All those things are smoothly animated as well and result in the entire action feeling much more dynamic.
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Radiance1979: ubisoft is just a company with a specific public in mind, i have a couple of the assasins games as well as the new heroes, settlers, even tried a bit of not watchdogs but that online thing of theirs with the missions and a world in flames, lets leave it at that they have good writers, probably good programmers as well as a superb economics supervisor in their ranks but the genius that started it for them has left the building for a long time already... great for the beginner gamer or the casual soon to be father
I can only agree in part with you here, since i have the feeling part of the problem Ubisoft has is tacking on different mechanics without thinking them through properly. I have recently started playing Assassin's Creed Odyssey and i was flabbergasted at how bloated the game was with confusing mechanics. You have a dedicated face button for sneaking attacks, you can knock out people with the push of an analog stick (which is required for recruiting them after the fact), you have another face button for picking up unconscious or dead bodies, you have a button combo for push-kicking enemies away etc.

If Ubisoft aimed for accessibility to casual players, they failed miserably with it, as it would be much simpler, more intuitive and satisfying to use for the player (both casual and expert) if they just copied ... let's say the grab mechanic from Shadow of Mordor, which can easily be used for killing, throwing, body moving, recruiting and knocking out as well without a thousand different mechanics but much rather with one mechanic that allows players different things. What i believe they are doing instead is keeping their originally simplistic core mechanic and just keep adding more and more new ones without rhyme or reason.

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InSaintMonoxide: Regarding the point of animations, i am one of the people who believe good animations can bring great value to a game, but only if they are actually controlled by the player. Ubisoft games for instance often times have the problem of including many beautifully animated moves in combat which are triggered at random and without much player choice or control, and that makes them feel like a redundant cutscene after a while instead of actual combat moves.

If i sneak up on an enemy in Assassin's Creed i press one button and the game displays an elaborate takedown animation where i stab the enemy multiple times, snap their neck and drag their corpse out of sight. That's wasted potential. If i sneak up on an enemy in Metal Gear Solid V, i actually have to grab them, drag them away, crouch down and choke them unconscious manually as seperate actions which i can control and have alternatives to. All those things are smoothly animated as well and result in the entire action feeling much more dynamic.
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dtgreene: What about animations that are the result of enemy actions?

The worst offender I'm aware of is obviously Final Fantasy 7's Super Nova (a spell with a 2 minute animation, during which you can't confirm commands), but I could also mention Zelda: Ocarina of Time's water temple boss, who can grab you and throw you around for a bit before you regain control. The Water Temple is such a fun dungeon aside from the boss (and the fact that putting on or taking off Iron Boots requires opening the menu; those boots should have been a C button item); it's a shame they had to ruin it with such a lousy boss fight.
Enemy attack animations like that are only okay with me if they're decidedly short. For example, when Dracula in Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia grabs Shanoa and chokes her for like 1 second i have no problem with that, but when enemies have drawn out animations which at worst throw you away again so you need to spend time closing the distance (and risk getting grabbed again in the process) it makes fights tedious and frustrating for me. If those moves are telegraphed poorly and the enemy has many invincibility frames, the fight becomes completely unenjoyable.

Generally speaking, i like it when some enemies have grabs though as long as they are not drawn out attack animations but rather something you can struggle out of (like Zombies or Vampires in many games or the enemies in Kung-Fu Master). It's important that those attacks aren't overused though.
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dtgreene: What about animations that are the result of enemy actions?

The worst offender I'm aware of is obviously Final Fantasy 7's Super Nova (a spell with a 2 minute animation, during which you can't confirm commands), but I could also mention Zelda: Ocarina of Time's water temple boss, who can grab you and throw you around for a bit before you regain control. The Water Temple is such a fun dungeon aside from the boss (and the fact that putting on or taking off Iron Boots requires opening the menu; those boots should have been a C button item); it's a shame they had to ruin it with such a lousy boss fight.
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InSaintMonoxide: Enemy attack animations like that are only okay with me if they're decidedly short. For example, when Dracula in Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia grabs Shanoa and chokes her for like 1 second i have no problem with that, but when enemies have drawn out animations which at worst throw you away again so you need to spend time closing the distance (and risk getting grabbed again in the process) it makes fights tedious and frustrating for me. If those moves are telegraphed poorly and the enemy has many invincibility frames, the fight becomes completely unenjoyable.

Generally speaking, i like it when some enemies have grabs though as long as they are not drawn out attack animations but rather something you can struggle out of (like Zombies or Vampires in many games or the enemies in Kung-Fu Master). It's important that those attacks aren't overused though.
So, I assume that Super Nova would count as too long? (It's 2 minutes long, except in the original JP version where it's "only" 20 seconds long) is too long for you?

I generally don't like situations where you have to struggle out of enemy attacks, because doing so usually requires some sort of button mashing, and I really don't like such gameplay. (It gives me flashbacks to that one part in Chrono Trigger where you literally have to button mash or the game won't continue; even worse, it comes in between a boss fight and the next point you can save, making it a black mark in an otherwise good game, and the main reason I rarely replay that game.)
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InSaintMonoxide: Enemy attack animations like that are only okay with me if they're decidedly short. For example, when Dracula in Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia grabs Shanoa and chokes her for like 1 second i have no problem with that, but when enemies have drawn out animations which at worst throw you away again so you need to spend time closing the distance (and risk getting grabbed again in the process) it makes fights tedious and frustrating for me. If those moves are telegraphed poorly and the enemy has many invincibility frames, the fight becomes completely unenjoyable.

Generally speaking, i like it when some enemies have grabs though as long as they are not drawn out attack animations but rather something you can struggle out of (like Zombies or Vampires in many games or the enemies in Kung-Fu Master). It's important that those attacks aren't overused though.
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dtgreene: So, I assume that Super Nova would count as too long? (It's 2 minutes long, except in the original JP version where it's "only" 20 seconds long) is too long for you?

I generally don't like situations where you have to struggle out of enemy attacks, because doing so usually requires some sort of button mashing, and I really don't like such gameplay. (It gives me flashbacks to that one part in Chrono Trigger where you literally have to button mash or the game won't continue; even worse, it comes in between a boss fight and the next point you can save, making it a black mark in an otherwise good game, and the main reason I rarely replay that game.)
While i haven't played Final Fantasy 7, a 2 minutes or even 20 seconds long animation is utterly unacceptable for me. As a rule of thumb, (non-dynamic-)animation length becomes a problem once the animation takes long enough for me to put my controller down and take a sip of coffee, because that clearly indicates i'm basically not playing an interactive game anymore at this point.

I generally consider button mashing acceptable as the best alternative in very few situations (getting free from an enemy being one of them), as most other alternatives i have seen so far (moving an analog stick fast, quick-time-events, certain mini-games) tend to be either more annoying or an inappropriate representation of the struggle on-screen. Are there any alternatives to button mashing that you prefer for such situations?
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morolf: Sounds like a troll comment. Unless one's the most superficial kind of gamer, animations are interesting for about an hour or so. Underlying gameplay mechanics are much more important.
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GeraltOfRivia_PL: Not a troll comment. Dark Souls has very well made animations and thanks to that the combat systme is attractive
dude is this you truly trolling me?

sending me friend requests every time i refuse them?

please.....

its already bad enough that your posts are so awful in nature

or... how you seem to lack any real stories to tell

but then again

the world is for the one with the money on the right place right
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Radiance1979: ubisoft is just a company with a specific public in mind, i have a couple of the assasins games as well as the new heroes, settlers, even tried a bit of not watchdogs but that online thing of theirs with the missions and a world in flames, lets leave it at that they have good writers, probably good programmers as well as a superb economics supervisor in their ranks but the genius that started it for them has left the building for a long time already... great for the beginner gamer or the casual soon to be father
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InSaintMonoxide: I can only agree in part with you here, since i have the feeling part of the problem Ubisoft has is tacking on different mechanics without thinking them through properly. I have recently started playing Assassin's Creed Odyssey and i was flabbergasted at how bloated the game was with confusing mechanics. You have a dedicated face button for sneaking attacks, you can knock out people with the push of an analog stick (which is required for recruiting them after the fact), you have another face button for picking up unconscious or dead bodies, you have a button combo for push-kicking enemies away etc.

If Ubisoft aimed for accessibility to casual players, they failed miserably with it, as it would be much simpler, more intuitive and satisfying to use for the player (both casual and expert) if they just copied ... let's say the grab mechanic from Shadow of Mordor, which can easily be used for killing, throwing, body moving, recruiting and knocking out as well without a thousand different mechanics but much rather with one mechanic that allows players different things. What i believe they are doing instead is keeping their originally simplistic core mechanic and just keep adding more and more new ones without rhyme or reason.
well i did enjoy odyssey for about 20 hours of worth but after that the adventure turned into this painstaking repetition of learned tasks, and without any real challenge that tickles me at least i can't say i'm very fond of ubisoft in general since most of their games seem to be infected with this system.

of course online players and younger players can fit fine in this, as of course older players can just as happily agree to play with their games for various reasons.

maybe in a sense it is the curse of a successful production since any game line knows its majority of followers that want more of the same only better looking.

i followed several productions of grand design and reasonable to very popular ratings on facebook and if you did so too you must have seen the hordes and hordes of respondents crying for a new game or dlc with every new notification from the developers side
Post edited November 22, 2020 by Radiance1979
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InSaintMonoxide: I generally consider button mashing acceptable as the best alternative in very few situations (getting free from an enemy being one of them), as most other alternatives i have seen so far (moving an analog stick fast, quick-time-events, certain mini-games) tend to be either more annoying or an inappropriate representation of the struggle on-screen. Are there any alternatives to button mashing that you prefer for such situations?
I'd rather just not include that mechanic at all, or treat it as a status ailment instead. Perhaps making it so that you never need to get free from an enemy would be a good option here.

(Note that moving an analog stick fast counts as button mashing to me.)
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GeraltOfRivia_PL: Not a troll comment. Dark Souls has very well made animations and thanks to that the combat systme is attractive
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Radiance1979: dude is this you truly trolling me?

sending me friend requests every time i refuse them?

please.....

its already bad enough that your posts are so awful in nature

or... how you seem to lack any real stories to tell

but then again

the world is for the one with the money on the right place right
avatar
InSaintMonoxide: I can only agree in part with you here, since i have the feeling part of the problem Ubisoft has is tacking on different mechanics without thinking them through properly. I have recently started playing Assassin's Creed Odyssey and i was flabbergasted at how bloated the game was with confusing mechanics. You have a dedicated face button for sneaking attacks, you can knock out people with the push of an analog stick (which is required for recruiting them after the fact), you have another face button for picking up unconscious or dead bodies, you have a button combo for push-kicking enemies away etc.

If Ubisoft aimed for accessibility to casual players, they failed miserably with it, as it would be much simpler, more intuitive and satisfying to use for the player (both casual and expert) if they just copied ... let's say the grab mechanic from Shadow of Mordor, which can easily be used for killing, throwing, body moving, recruiting and knocking out as well without a thousand different mechanics but much rather with one mechanic that allows players different things. What i believe they are doing instead is keeping their originally simplistic core mechanic and just keep adding more and more new ones without rhyme or reason.
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Radiance1979: well i did enjoy odyssey for about 20 hours of worth but after that the adventure turned into this painstaking repetition of learned tasks, and without any real challenge that tickles me at least i can't say i'm very fond of ubisoft in general since most of their games seem to be infected with this system.

of course online players and younger players can fit fine in this, as of course older players can just as happily agree to play with their games for various reasons.

maybe in a sense it is the curse of a successful production since any game line knows its majority of followers that want more of the same only better looking.

i followed several productions of grand design and reasonable to very popular ratings on facebook and if you did so too you must have seen the hordes and hordes of respondents crying for a new game or dlc with every new notification from the developers side
That's probably the difference in our tastes. I don't find repetition in games painstaking at all. The important part for me is that the process i am repeating is satisfying in itself, which is something Ubisoft games unfortunately don't excel in. In Assassin's Creed Odyssey, i find all of the mechanics and animations in that clusterfuck of a game serviceable, but just not satisfying enough to entertain me for many hours.
I have just got back to playing DSIII and i gotta admit the combat system is great but hard to get the hang of. It's infuriating when the enemy keeps stunlocking you forever.
Post edited 4 days ago by ponczo_
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NuffCatnip: Ah, procrastination, my greatest enemy. :D
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GeraltOfRivia_PL: You see i have not abandoned it

I have just got back to playing DSIII and i gotta admit the combat system is great but hard to get the hang of. It's infuriating when the enemy keeps stunlocking you forever.
You must acquire more poise.
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GeraltOfRivia_PL: If the combat system was better then so many games would instantly become better
Why don't more places serve my favorite of Spinach flavored icecream?

I mean Vanilla and chocolate are good but get so boring and i need something to spice it up. The Spinach flavor is really refined and good for you.

If more stores sold my Spinach flavored icecream it would be instantly better...
Because you can't actually die or even get hurt in them.
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rtcvb32: Why don't more places serve my favorite of Spinach flavored icecream?
Popeye says Hi!