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I remember a time when I was 5 years old I thought the UK and France was the same :P

(In a similar matter as people thinking China and Japan are the same)
Post edited February 17, 2015 by Elmofongo
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Emob78: Dealing with the reverse racism
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EuroMIX: That's not "reverse" racism, that's just straight up racism if they treated you and your friends that way just because you were a difference race to them.
You are not reversely incorrect. Still, society tends to look at white on ___ oppression and see racism, while universally justifying any type of ___ on white oppression. When doing a cultural scorecard, someone forgot to mention the Irish, Scots, or Slavs. Not the right complexion for the connection, I suppose.
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Emob78: "If race genuinely isn't important too his character then people wouldn't be demanding that it be changed."

BINGO. Sir, you win the 'most logical but never asked question in pop culture' award.
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Gilozard: It is a good question, but the answer is obvious.

People of color are simply asking for more superheroes who are like them. That's a perfectly reasonable preference. I've never yet heard of people demanding that a specific superhero be changed. The comic book companies are the ones who made that decision.

I think the new Ms. Marvel handled it correctly. She's got a reasonable origin story insofar as superhero origins are ever reasonable, and is naturally herself vs having something shoved in for political correctness.
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Johnmourby: So you're saying the Spiderman comics and most other comics are racist because.......?

If race genuinely isn't important too his character then people wouldn't be demanding that it be changed. Though it is funny that you point to Captain America as an example of someone who shouldn't be race-swapped when that is basically what has happened.
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Gilozard: I never said the Spiderman comics were racist. I said that when original comic material is racist, we can't hide behind the 'it was always this way' excuse. Sometimes the way things were was terrible, and needs to be changed.
But people are demanding that Spiderman be changed. That's what got me writing this to begin with. And there are non-white/female/gay superheroes, quite a lot of female ones actually. But somewhere down the line someone decided that it wasn't enough and that the only way to make amends was to take some popular characters and change them or replace them with characters of the preferred race or gender. And though most of these weren't asked for plenty of left leaning people have praised this course as an improvement and a triumph for diversity, often before the comics were out.

As of Ms Marvel, some people would disagree with you I'll actually give a little and say she's cool in my book. She's not a replacement for Carol Danvers, she doesn't live on her legacy and isn't being pushed as an improvement on her predecessor


I don't get what you're saying here, "when original comic material is racist"? I'm guessing your not talking about the ink and paper actually talking about the text on which the film is based. Okay but you clearly said "most comics were/are very racist" without explaining why you think that. I've read quite a lot of old and new comics and I can't say that either modern artsy-indie comics or 1960 Marvel comics ever struck me as racist.
Post edited February 17, 2015 by Johnmourby
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TStael: Should the question not rather be: why is Spiderman - and about each and every other comic superhero white - or maybe a "creature", in fact?

Which one would you see played by a black, then, if Spiderman is "out of bounds"?

Was this not maybe the question you were asked, as opposed the all-in "racist" accusation, I wonder?
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Johnmourby: No..... Nobody has ever asked me that. Infact I'm not even sure what you're asking. The question isn't well phrased. But in as far as I understand you question which white character would I like to see played as black? Ummm, none of them?

As for the question as to "Why is Spiderman - and about each and every other comic superhero white?", well.... they aren't.
There are plenty of non-white superheroes.
Now, now - I sort of rather think I asked a question you did not wish to hear - as opposed to a poorly presented one.

I asked: should Spiderman be out of bounds for a black incarnation - what is there, then realistically, if we cannot start with him?

Name those "plenty of non-white superheroes" fair n square - please do! Because I cannot.
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TStael: should Spiderman be out of bounds for a black incarnation - what is there, then realistically, if we cannot start with him?
That does not actually make sense as a question. At all.
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Johnmourby: No..... Nobody has ever asked me that. Infact I'm not even sure what you're asking. The question isn't well phrased. But in as far as I understand you question which white character would I like to see played as black? Ummm, none of them?

As for the question as to "Why is Spiderman - and about each and every other comic superhero white?", well.... they aren't.
There are plenty of non-white superheroes.
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TStael: Now, now - I sort of rather think I asked a question you did not wish to hear - as opposed to a poorly presented one.

I asked: should Spiderman be out of bounds for a black incarnation - what is there, then realistically, if we cannot start with him?

Name those "plenty of non-white superheroes" fair n square - please do! Because I cannot.
That's twice today you've called me a lair, not cool. Any how for your reading pleasure Here are a mere 26. I wanted to get one for each letter of the alphabet but some letters are hard to find and I'm not going to spend more than 10 minutes on this.

Aqualad
Batwing
Black Panther
Cyborg
Doctor Mist
Darwin
Freedom beast
Green Lantern
Hotspot
Icon
Kid Quantum
Luke Cage
Mr Terrific
Night thrasher
Optica
Pantha
Photon
Quantum
Steel
Storm
Tempest
3D man
Vixen
War Machine
Yrial
Ziona

I hope this proves I'm not a lair at least.
Post edited February 18, 2015 by Johnmourby
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Johnmourby: [list]
Spawn!
My uncle is color blind. Well actually he forgot to cut eye holes in his hood so he's pretty much blind period.
I've always been aware of it since I had always understood that the physical features of race (skin color, hair texture, nose shape, facial structure, eye shape, eye color range, hair color range, etc.) were more like physical proof of a heritage, a culture, and a people.

There was also the fact that I was targeted by ghetto black and ghetto whites for being part Asian and when I felt I was being denied my Germanic heritage by getting oversimplified as "Korean." It was very insulting when I was referred to as "Chinese" since I am in no way shape or form related to China. Further awareness came in when I noticed black kids at school getting away with saying the "n-word" and being held to looser standards than the white ones. In fact, most of the racists I had to deal with were blacks who got away it since the faculty claimed to my white father that they were "not being racist but just being black."

Also, I became more aware when I noticed that blacks got to have their own month and could freely express pride in their race but if whites did something similar, they would get branded as "Nazis" or "racists."

As an adult, I became full aware of how selective those history lessons at public grade school really were. We were only taught about the enslavement of blacks but not the enslavement of the Irish or the Barbary Slave Trade. We definitely were not even given clues about the existence of black slaveholders like Anthony Johnson of colonial Virginia or the 2,700 confirmed black slaveholders of the 1850s.

As far as I'm concerned, racial differences are actually a good thing. It gives people an appreciation of each other and of themselves. I actually believe in embracing it as a means of supporting human biodiversity unlike the fake diversity that is simply about replacing whites with non-whites.
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TStael:
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Johnmourby: Strom
Strom?
Seriously? :P

Also you forgot Catwoman and I'm not just talking about that god awful movie; Ertha Kitt played her in the series.

Oh and the Human Torch is black in the new Fantastic Four.

And Nick Fury.
Post edited February 18, 2015 by tinyE
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Johnmourby: [list]
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Sachys: Spawn!
Spawn's cool. But I was trying to stick to Marvel and DC where possible and I already had two S's. No disrespect meant towards Spawn :)
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Johnmourby: Strom
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tinyE: Strom?
Seriously? :P

Also you forgot Catwoman and I'm not just talking about that god awful movie; Ertha Kitt played her in the series.

Oh and the Human Torch is black in the new Fantastic Four.
Comics only! I'm not counting those cini-movy-motion-picture things! ;)
Post edited February 18, 2015 by Johnmourby
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Sachys: Spawn!
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Johnmourby: Spawn's cool. But I was trying to stick to Marvel and DC where possible and I already had two S's. No disrespect meant towards Spawn :)
I'm just throwing another name in there is all! heheh
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Sachys: Spawn!
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Johnmourby: Spawn's cool. But I was trying to stick to Marvel and DC where possible and I already had two S's. No disrespect meant towards Spawn :)
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tinyE: Strom?
Seriously? :P

Also you forgot Catwoman and I'm not just talking about that god awful movie; Ertha Kitt played her in the series.

Oh and the Human Torch is black in the new Fantastic Four.
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Johnmourby: Comics only! I'm not counting those cini-movy-motion-picture things! ;)
Oh like I've ever read a comic book! :P

Oh and Blade. (him and Nick Fury are black in the comics!)
Post edited February 18, 2015 by tinyE
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Johnmourby: Spawn's cool. But I was trying to stick to Marvel and DC where possible and I already had two S's. No disrespect meant towards Spawn :)

Comics only! I'm not counting those cini-movy-motion-picture things! ;)
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tinyE: Oh like I've ever read a comic book! :P

Oh and Blade. (him and Nick Fury are black in the comics!)
Doesn't matter, everyone knows The Hoff is the definitive Nick Fury.
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tinyE: Oh like I've ever read a comic book! :P

Oh and Blade. (him and Nick Fury are black in the comics!)
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Gonchi: Doesn't matter, everyone knows The Hoff is the definitive Nick Fury.
Yeah and Reb Brown is Captain America! :P