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rjbuffchix: While your suggestion for GWENT is good, I still like the idea of just moving GWENT to CDPR's own site (i.e., unlike here which is supposed to be "100% DRM-free").
Ideally, even CDPR would get out of the business of harming and exploiting people, and a product like GWENT as it is only exists to exploit people harmfully. Fixing it would show a real course correction, along with leading the industry by example that things can be done right.
I think it's less trust and more brand loyalty/meeting expectations. I don't trust companies because companies are Lovecraftian monsters with a hundred heads that fall off and grow new ones. But I am more willing to buy games from studios whose games I have enjoyed in the past because statistically they probably did something similar to what I liked the first time.

My advice to people whose faith has been shaken is to stop pre-ordering and buying things before going through the reviews. I wait years before playing games sometimes. There is no shortage of good games, so by the time I get around to the next one it will be all patched up and on sale. Honestly I don't understand how this topic keeps popping back up like black mold.
At least they should update the forum :P
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THESLITHERYDEE: I think it's less trust and more brand loyalty/meeting expectations. I don't trust companies because companies are Lovecraftian monsters with a hundred heads that fall off and grow new ones. But I am more willing to buy games from studios whose games I have enjoyed in the past because statistically they probably did something similar to what I liked the first time.

My advice to people whose faith has been shaken is to stop pre-ordering and buying things before going through the reviews. I wait years before playing games sometimes. There is no shortage of good games, so by the time I get around to the next one it will be all patched up and on sale. Honestly I don't understand how this topic keeps popping back up like black mold.
I don't think we need to discourage people from preordering so much as we need to encourage people to have realistic expectations, to practice good judgement when preordering and to exercise proper financial skills. That way, we could avoid people flipping out because a game doesn't launch bug-free and to their own, individual demands. We could also avoid the issue of gamers thinking they can flippantly spend their money and expect to get it back if they don't like a game.
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Turbo-Beaver: And what would those benefits be exactly? "FCKDRM" and offline installers as a token gesture but from now on you either use the launcher with their own flagship game or don't get all the content that is already in it? 30-day refunds that sound great on paper as long as you don't actually try to apply for one yourself (as thousands of testimonies all around the Internet now attest to)? Or is it their "utmost care for customers," as manifested by the lack of even any pretense of customer service because they wanted to do it on the cheap instead of hiring enough staff in preparation for the launch of their most anticipated game?

In a way you're right, there is no other store as duplicitous, pretending to be everything they're not.

Just where would those gains be coming from?

People abandoning Steam, where they already bought most of their games, so that they can try a different flavor of DRM with an inferior launcher, now semi-mandatory, and paying extra for it (never mind the higher prices on GOG)? So that they can enjoy slower downloads in certain regions of the world GOG is supposedly focusing on (e.g. China), and often missing features (see the long list of games that treat GOG customers as second-class)? Enduring all this so that up to "100% of their money" can go to a company now infamous for manipulating reviews, lying about the state of their game, and letting external actors "curate" their platform and delist "hand-picked" games while their customers have to do without even an explanation? Absolutely, people must be flocking in by the droves as we speak to be part of this experience.
Honestly I don't know why you are still here if you hate the place so much.

Clearly your sense of the overall logic is being impacted by your emotions which have created blinkers.

My advice, is to take a deep breath, stand back to see the full picture, and then look again, but objectively this time. :)

BOL
well, it could fuck off and leave GOG alone.
Well as a PC gamer no trust lost.. 100 hours of an unforgettable game, on the level of Horizon Zero Dawn in regards to story and relationship building. It's the console players they lied and manipulated, or was it the investors? Who made the decision to keep setting unrealistic release dates? Who said lets just say we will release and then keep moving it?

That person needs fired and drug though the dirt so they are never allowed to work in the industry ever again. They need strung up and put on display for everyone to see. That is the monster that did this.

That person isn't worth the time it takes to type this.... They are 100% at fault for everything, its not a CDP. That person its whoever moved that release date over and over and over and wouldn't let the devs finish the game.
Post edited December 28, 2020 by Starkrun
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Turbo-Beaver: And what would those benefits be exactly? "FCKDRM" and offline installers as a token gesture but from now on you either use the launcher with their own flagship game or don't get all the content that is already in it? 30-day refunds that sound great on paper as long as you don't actually try to apply for one yourself (as thousands of testimonies all around the Internet now attest to)? Or is it their "utmost care for customers," as manifested by the lack of even any pretense of customer service because they wanted to do it on the cheap instead of hiring enough staff in preparation for the launch of their most anticipated game?

In a way you're right, there is no other store as duplicitous, pretending to be everything they're not.

Just where would those gains be coming from?

People abandoning Steam, where they already bought most of their games, so that they can try a different flavor of DRM with an inferior launcher, now semi-mandatory, and paying extra for it (never mind the higher prices on GOG)? So that they can enjoy slower downloads in certain regions of the world GOG is supposedly focusing on (e.g. China), and often missing features (see the long list of games that treat GOG customers as second-class)? Enduring all this so that up to "100% of their money" can go to a company now infamous for manipulating reviews, lying about the state of their game, and letting external actors "curate" their platform and delist "hand-picked" games while their customers have to do without even an explanation? Absolutely, people must be flocking in by the droves as we speak to be part of this experience.
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Timboli: Honestly I don't know why you are still here if you hate the place so much.

Clearly your sense of the overall logic is being impacted by your emotions which have created blinkers.

My advice, is to take a deep breath, stand back to see the full picture, and then look again, but objectively this time.
Is this really the best you can do?
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Timboli: There is no other store like GOG, that offers its benefits, flawed as it may often be at times, nothing else beats it.
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Timboli: Perhaps even losing some of you is a minor loss compared to the gains ...
You made some pretty bold claims, and failed to substantiate them at all. I pointed out a lot of evidence to the contrary. Now, instead of discussing what I wrote on its merits, you are just telling me to go away because you disagree?

Everything you wrote to me is devoid of any relevance to the actual topic of the discussion. This only demonstrates that while you don't like what I wrote, you also couldn't find anything factually or logically incorrect in my argument.

If I'm really missing "the full picture" as you are alleging, why don't you help me with my "clearly impacted sense of overall logic" and show me the light through my "blinkers?" But "objectively this time."
Post edited December 28, 2020 by Turbo-Beaver
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rjbuffchix: While your suggestion for GWENT is good, I still like the idea of just moving GWENT to CDPR's own site (i.e., unlike here which is supposed to be "100% DRM-free").
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mqstout: Ideally, even CDPR would get out of the business of harming and exploiting people, and a product like GWENT as it is only exists to exploit people harmfully. Fixing it would show a real course correction, along with leading the industry by example that things can be done right.
Hear hear. Can't really disagree. Was thinking that my idea was perhaps more realistic but I'm honestly not sure it is, and in any case, your suggestion would certainly do more to restore lost trust.

Anyone else remember FCKDRM.com? That site does(did?) a pretty solid job explaining DRM and why it's bad. Too bad that Galaxy requirements fail the 100% DRM-free standard. Showing the site is just lip service.
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THESLITHERYDEE: I think it's less trust and more brand loyalty/meeting expectations. I don't trust companies because companies are Lovecraftian monsters with a hundred heads that fall off and grow new ones. But I am more willing to buy games from studios whose games I have enjoyed in the past because statistically they probably did something similar to what I liked the first time.
I think the issue is more specifically publicly-owned corporations. More often than not, that change tends to be what starts the downfall. Most game developers do their best work when they are relatively small and privately-owned, because they are allowed to prioritize the art. However, if/when they get bought by a pubic corporation, the priorities immediately change to satisfying shareholders and maximizing profits. The quality of the games almost invariably suffers.

I don't have the dates, but I wouldn't be surprised if the start of the slippage at GOG coincided fairly closely with CDPR going public. Imo, the best thing that could happen for GOG would be for it to be sold to a private individual or group that actually believes in DRM-free.
Post edited December 29, 2020 by Time4Tea
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Time4Tea: I think the issue is more specifically publicly-owned corporations. More often than not, that change tends to be what starts the downfall. Most game developers do their best work when they are relatively small and privately-owned, because they are allowed to prioritize the art. However, if/when they get bought by a pubic corporation, the priorities immediately change to satisfying shareholders and maximizing profits. The quality of the games almost invariably suffers.

I don't have the dates, but I wouldn't be surprised if the start of the slippage at GOG coincided fairly closely with CDPR going public. Imo, the best thing that could happen for GOG would for it to be sold to a private individual or group that actually believes in DRM-free.
Totally...I can't think of one company that went public, that didn't go on to provide a worse product to consumers. No idea if there is any interest or possibility of it happening but I think I would be fine if Jordan Freeman/Jordan Freeman Group were to buy GOG (he of Zoom-Platform, an alternative DRM-free gaming storefront). As others have discussed that we cannot guarantee alternate stores would stay DRM-free, true, but it looks like GOG themselves aren't fully DRM-free at least by my definitions (and the definitions of FCKDRM.com, last I had checked).
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Zrevnur: The context is exactly what you wrote in your own post (but not limited to your post - similar sentiments were expressed elsewhere too): "... The addition of the Epic Games Store to Galaxy not that long ago made me think then what the future of GOG will be..."
You use GOG adding Epic as an argument against GOG. But this only makes proper sense to me if you believe Epic to be worse than GOG.
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elgonzo: Okay. But how is me diskliking EGS now suddenly inapproriate just because GOG is "shitting on the carpet"?
I dont think disliking EGS is inappropriate. What I meant with "hating" is the "bad/worse guy there"-fingerpointing from a GOG perspective.
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elgonzo: I disliked EGS and the EGS integration in GOG long before the current GOG affairs. (Note that i said "it made me think then...", referring to the time when EGS was being integrated in Galaxy, and more specifically referring to a comment i made at that time: https://www.gog.com/forum/general_beta_gog_galaxy_2.0/new_store_inside_gog_galaxy_launches_in_test_phase/post62 ).
If thats what you meant then this doesnt even imply "dislike Epic" - its just about GOG.
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elgonzo: You seem to believe that i just started to dislike EGS (and Galaxy's EGS integration) because of current GOG events, which is incorrect.
I dont know when you started to dislike EGS...


As you write yourself - this goes both ways. And if its one vs the other ("bow to China" or "dont bow to China") then the 50+% wins over the 40%. The 40% would have to successfully sue for proper reasons (like not making money or breaking laws) to get their way. (Also Tencent usually doesnt mess openly with the companies they invest in anyway. This is not how the CCP plays their cards - it would obviously be stupid for them to do that.)
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elgonzo: Yes, it goes both ways. I absolutely agree. Yet, you still seem to like sticking to the "it only goes one way, Sweeneys way" theory, while then at the end kinda changing position back to a "it goes both ways" by introducing a secret mysterious squirrel-way of Tencent being able to get their way. Hmm...

And ofcourse any arguments or disputes between Sweeney and Tencent are normally not done in the open (public). This has nothing to do with how the CCP likes to do things at all. Regardless of the company and regardless of the actual shareholders, arguments, disputes, negotions about the direction of a company and/or the personnel of the BoD between large shareholders (and other investors and stakeholders) are usually not public but rather behind closed doors, unless they turn hostile and one party drags the dispute into the open.
But we have the public statement by Tim Sweeney. Otherwise not sure what you were trying to say.
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Shiznown: This, also state the real reason why Cyberpunk is being more censored with each patch. Put back the nudity in Cyberpunk, Apologize for the whole situation, release mod tools and donate to a charity; donate preferably to a Hong Kong charity, even if it's a neutral charity like a historical monument charity. Oh, and add Devotion to the damn store.
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toupz111: Lol nice troll, why would someone donate to hong kong? China is the shittest place
You're lucky you're just some asswipe on the internet
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Shiznown: donate preferably to a Hong Kong charity, even if it's a neutral charity like a historical monument charity. Oh, and add Devotion to the damn store.
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RafaelRamus: Don't you mean Taiwan instead of Hong Kong?
Either or, but preferably both.
Post edited December 28, 2020 by Shiznown
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toupz111: Lol nice troll, why would someone donate to hong kong? China is the shittest place
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Shiznown: You're lucky you're just some asswipe on the internet
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RafaelRamus: Don't you mean Taiwan instead of Hong Kong?
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Shiznown: Either or, but preferably both.
donate hungary pls
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elgonzo: It could be. The addition of the Epic Games Store to Galaxy not that long ago made me think then what the future of GOG will be and whether that could be a sign a of a possible upcoming reorg of the CD Projekt group. As a side note, 40% of EGS is owned by Tencent, and it wouldn't be entirely frivolous to imagine some relationship between this and the complete withdrawal/cancellation of Devotion on GOG...
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Zrevnur: According to this post: https://www.gog.com/forum/general/devotion_is_coming_to_gog_on_dec_18th/post908 Epic does (unlike "we are rebels" CDPSA) not bow down to CCP. Reason being Tim Sweeney has control over Epic and not Tencent.
Note A: The link doesnt work - you have to manually go to post #908. (Presumably this is due to forum censorship = moderators deleting posts in the thread which makes the linking buggy.)
Note B: I dont know if the linked post is true. Although I did a little research and found no contradiction.
Note C: Given the current state of GOG I find the hating on Epic inappropriate - assuming the linked post is properly true.

Due to the linking problem I am quoting the full post too:

#908

There have been so many missteps and never really any personal consequences. There cannot possibly be any change if the same people are still in charge incapable or unwilling to change or to fulfill the countless promises to do different. Find the people in leading positions that are not compatible with your moral/ethic code and just offer them a different position, that suits them better. I mean It's simple parenting 101, if there are no consequences to ones actions, no lessons will ever be learned.

As far as Epic is concerned, what makes you say that they are in league with the CCP? Because Tencent is owning 40% of their stock? During the Blizzard Hong Kong protest controversy Tim Sweeney stated "Epic supports the rights of Fortnite players and creators to speak about politics and human rights." which clearly opposes the CCP. Also Fortnite was banned in China in 2018, because of "Blood and gore, vulgar content", unlike Blizzard Epic refused to make changes to their game to cater to the Chinese market .When his stance concerning free speech was challenged because of the large share Tencent holds, Tim Sweeney essentially stated that nothing would happen to undermine that as long as he was in charge "Yes, absolutely. That will never happen on my watch as the founder, CEO, and controlling shareholder."
So far he has stayed true to his word.
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Zrevnur: --

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Chielus86: At the moment, I simply won't as there is no options left. Gaming has been my hobby since the early 90's, but the landscape has changed. I do have a very very large collection (physical) of games, many of which I have barely played or not at all. You know, buying a bulk of games 2nd hand and such.

So I will spend some time, probably up to years, digesting that collection and enjoying many gems from the past. But as far as buying new things, I simply can't at this moment. Steam is worse, EpicGames is... Let's not dive into that burning dumpster and barely any (if at all) developer sells their games separate of a major storefront.
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Zrevnur: There is this thread if you dont know it:
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/list_of_drmfree_video_games_digital_distributors/page1]https://www.gog.com/forum/general/list_of_drmfree_video_games_digital_distributors/page1[/url]
Thank you for sharing this. Hopefully the Epic store will get better features. I still wish Unreal Tournament would be completed.