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"China" returned 3 posts
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IwubCheeze: No, learning French is not too difficult, there is no language too difficult to learn. Anyone who says a language is too hard to learn is just making excuses for themselves. In order to speak another language properly, you have to understand how the people who use it think, have first hand experience how it is used, make your mistakes and understand them, think in the language until you get a feel for the language. It takes effort but once it's done, everything falls into place. You cannot rely on classes for this however.
true, but french was the most and common language used by the 'rich'
'the royal' , the Aristocrats.

google search:

"Aristocrats is a broad term that usually refers to people that a particular social order considers the highest social class of that society. Specifically, in many states, the aristocracy are a class of people (aristocrats) who typically possess a hereditary rank and sometimes specific titles. "

so basically the 'better' educated (also/mainly) spoke french.

nowadays things will shift a lot, some languages that are widely spoken are usually because there are more (native) people who speak that language ( inhabitants of a certain part of the world)

if there was a way to have gazillions of people to be bon in lets say the netherlands , then numbers change
drasticaly ,causing the dutch to be considered as the most spoken language

I think its 'unreliable' to go by numbers alone, just because there are billions of people who speak a certain language you might assume that its the most spoken / used language, but dont forget that nowadays many people also speak english, and that not all people also speak 'exotic' languages.

anyways the link to article:

http://www.alsintl.com/blog/most-common-languages/

shortened version :

1. Mandarin

With over 955 million speakers, Mandarin claims the top spot as the world’s most common language — and one that often requires professional translation services.

One of the five major dialects of Chinese, Mandarin is the official language of China and Taiwan, as well as one of the four official dialects of Singapore. Approximately 14.4 percent of the world’s population are native speakers of Mandarin.

2. Spanish

Its prominence in the Americas as well as in Europe makes Spanish one of the most common languages, with 405 million speakers. The Castilian dialect in Spain is held as a national standard, although Andalusian and Catalan are also spoken.

3. English

English used to be the second-most common language, but Spanish-speakers have increased much more rapidly over the past 15 years. Still, scholars have named English the world’s “most influential language,” due to the number of speakers (360 million) and the number of countries in which it is spoken.

4. Hindi/Urdu

Over 310 million people speak one of the two.

5. Arabic

Spoken by 295 million speakers worldwide,

6. Portuguese

Out of the 215 million Portuguese speakers worldwide, nearly 150 million of them speak Brazilian Portuguese, the most common language variant.

7. Bengali

With 205 million speakers, Bengali is also the second most widely spoken language in India ...

8. Russian

Russian’s 155 million speakers make it the world’s eighth most common language. ....

9. Japanese

Out of the approximately 125 million people who speak Japanese, 124 million live in Japan and the island group of Okinawa.

10. Punjabi

Fifteen years ago, German held the tenth spot, though Punjabi has recently surpassed it. With 102 million speakers, Punjabi is mainly spoken in India and Pakistan, and is a native language of 1.44 percent of the world’s population.

dont forget that changes are very big that lots of people in those top 10 countries can speak (some) english
therefore relying on numbers only is not 100% reliable.
Post edited May 26, 2015 by gamesfreak64
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gamesfreak64: *snip*
Not only is it unreliable to rely on number of speakers, it's also irrelevant otherwise everyone would be learning Mandarin. What you said was interesting but none of that was really my point. The only point I was making was that French isn't "too hard" to learn and neither has it been made redundant with English.

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gamesfreak64: dont forget that changes are very big that lots of people in those top 10 countries can speak (some) english
therefore relying on numbers only is not 100% reliable.
I find this comment very interesting because it's also irrelevant. I have lived in China for 8 years. English is my mother language, I speak Mandarin fluently as well as basic Korean. I can honestly tell you that using English will cause you more problems than not in China, even if the other person you're speaking to does speak English.

The first problem comes from how they understand English, they understand it differently than we do and when you speak both languages, you can see the contrast between them and why there is confusion. This opens up a whole can of misunderstandings because neither knows what the other is thinking.

The second problem comes from the Chinese fear of making a mistake. They will not tell you they don't understand or ask you for clarification, they will just stare blankly and tell you they understand. Then they will avoid you afterwards because going through that experience again is too "scary" for them

Third, conversation in English barely goes further than stupid questions. 95% of the time, the first question will be "Where are you from?". Then it goes into questions like "Do you like Chinese food?", "Do you like China?", "Do you like Chinese girls?", "Are you married". Then when they've run out of stupid questions, they feel awkward, say they have something to do and avoid talking to you again.

Fourth, the people who did speak English are more likely than not the people you don't want to associate with, this was definitely the case while I was in Shanghai. For my first 3 years in China, I did tolerate English but when I noticed some of the people I thought were friends just started ignoring me or kept switching to English, it was obvious what was going on. I was an "English Bitch", the sole reason for my existence was to help them practice English. Out of all the people I met when I spoke English, only one was sincere. If I'm outside and someone speaks to me in English, I ignore them. If they persist, I snub them off. Why? See the next reason.

Fifth, if you speak English, you are giving the Chinese a green light with these preset notions about the kind of person you are. Normally, these are archetypes that come from watching TV which means, you aren't usually "on the level" so to speak. For example, "Americans eat burgars every day", "British people all like football". If you deviate from their preconceived notion of who you are, things get awkward quickly. Talking to such people never goes anywhere and I'd rather not waste the time.

Sixth, there were a lot of experiences open to me that would have remained closed otherwise. One time my friend and a few of her co-workers arranged a get to gether and I was invited. The first time I did this, I didn't quite understand what was going on and felt quite awkward, the last time I did it, I understood everything that was going on and could actually have fun. Words really can't describe the contrast between these two events.

Seventh, you can see people for who they really are. A lot of times, Chinese will overcompensate for their nervousness and it shows. By speaking Chinese, you take the pressure off the other person and can actually have a conversation that doesn't involve stupid questions and awkwardness. Actually, you will still get the stupid questions but when they're out the way, you won't hear them from that person again and you can actually talk about stuff that has value.

Eighth, you are less likely to get screwed over when your at the market. If you speak English at the market, you are telling the vendor you know absolutely nothing about China and they will take advantage of that and yes, I was taken advantage of my first time here. I'm really not sure how they do it but I found when English was used, I found myself getting caught into psychological traps. I really wish I could explain this better but I don't know how. I found it much better to just be confident, speak Chinese and call the vendor on their bullshit. Whoever said good manners cost nothing obviously hasn't tried buying anything at the market here.

I could go on (especially with regards to misunderstandings) but this post is already longer than I had intended.

The above only summarizes my experience with English in China so I can't speak for other countries. In this case, you can see why I refuse to use English here, it has hurt more than helped. Sure, you can get things done and if that's all you're doing, then just stick with English. But know that you are closing yourself off from a lot of experiences and remained vulnerable in others if you just stuck with English.

TL:DR version

English hasn't diminished the importance of other languages. English can be used to get stuff done but there are limits, some of them crippling. Relying on English in China is a bad idea.
Post edited May 26, 2015 by IwubCheeze
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gamesfreak64: *snip*
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IwubCheeze: Not only is it unreliable to rely on number of speakers, it's also irrelevant otherwise everyone would be learning Mandarin. What you said was interesting but none of that was really my point. The only point I was making was that French isn't "too hard" to learn and neither has it been made redundant with English.

avatar
gamesfreak64: dont forget that changes are very big that lots of people in those top 10 countries can speak (some) english
therefore relying on numbers only is not 100% reliable.
avatar
IwubCheeze: I find this comment very interesting because it's also irrelevant. I have lived in China for 8 years. English is my mother language, I speak Mandarin fluently as well as basic Korean. I can honestly tell you that using English will cause you more problems than not in China, even if the other person you're speaking to does speak English.

The first problem comes from how they understand English, they understand it differently than we do and when you speak both languages, you can see the contrast between them and why there is confusion. This opens up a whole can of misunderstandings because neither knows what the other is thinking.

The second problem comes from the Chinese fear of making a mistake. They will not tell you they don't understand or ask you for clarification, they will just stare blankly and tell you they understand. Then they will avoid you afterwards because going through that experience again is too "scary" for them

Third, conversation in English barely goes further than stupid questions. 95% of the time, the first question will be "Where are you from?". Then it goes into questions like "Do you like Chinese food?", "Do you like China?", "Do you like Chinese girls?", "Are you married". Then when they've run out of stupid questions, they feel awkward, say they have something to do and avoid talking to you again.

Fourth, the people who did speak English are more likely than not the people you don't want to associate with, this was definitely the case while I was in Shanghai. For my first 3 years in China, I did tolerate English but when I noticed some of the people I thought were friends just started ignoring me or kept switching to English, it was obvious what was going on. I was an "English Bitch", the sole reason for my existence was to help them practice English. Out of all the people I met when I spoke English, only one was sincere. If I'm outside and someone speaks to me in English, I ignore them. If they persist, I snub them off. Why? See the next reason.

Fifth, if you speak English, you are giving the Chinese a green light with these preset notions about the kind of person you are. Normally, these are archetypes that come from watching TV which means, you aren't usually "on the level" so to speak. For example, "Americans eat burgars every day", "British people all like football". If you deviate from their preconceived notion of who you are, things get awkward quickly. Talking to such people never goes anywhere and I'd rather not waste the time.

Sixth, there were a lot of experiences open to me that would have remained closed otherwise. One time my friend and a few of her co-workers arranged a get to gether and I was invited. The first time I did this, I didn't quite understand what was going on and felt quite awkward, the last time I did it, I understood everything that was going on and could actually have fun. Words really can't describe the contrast between these two events.

Seventh, you can see people for who they really are. A lot of times, Chinese will overcompensate for their nervousness and it shows. By speaking Chinese, you take the pressure off the other person and can actually have a conversation that doesn't involve stupid questions and awkwardness. Actually, you will still get the stupid questions but when they're out the way, you won't hear them from that person again and you can actually talk about stuff that has value.

Eighth, you are less likely to get screwed over when your at the market. If you speak English at the market, you are telling the vendor you know absolutely nothing about China and they will take advantage of that and yes, I was taken advantage of my first time here. I'm really not sure how they do it but I found when English was used, I found myself getting caught into psychological traps. I really wish I could explain this better but I don't know how. I found it much better to just be confident, speak Chinese and call the vendor on their bullshit. Whoever said good manners cost nothing obviously hasn't tried buying anything at the market here.

I could go on (especially with regards to misunderstandings) but this post is already longer than I had intended.

The above only summarizes my experience with English in China so I can't speak for other countries. In this case, you can see why I refuse to use English here, it has hurt more than helped. Sure, you can get things done and if that's all you're doing, then just stick with English. But know that you are closing yourself off from a lot of experiences and remained vulnerable in others if you just stuck with English.

TL:DR version

English hasn't diminished the importance of other languages. English can be used to get stuff done but there are limits, some of them crippling. Relying on English in China is a bad idea.
i understand , in holland we have loads of asian people speaking good dutch, most of them work or own a restaurant or a small snackbar (selling fries (not french fries(mc donalds) but the real fries :D
so i see these kind of people on a frequent base.
From the 10 or 12 snackbars in the regions 90% is run and or owned by these people.

As for relevance and irrelevance (we almost look like mr spock from startrek TOS who always found that most of the humans part was irrelevant)
99% is indeed irrelevant, but we are not on ths planet to relevate or irrelavete, we have been 'placed' on this small planet and we have to make the best of it.
We have to see everything in perspective, we can rationalize things or derationalize , all people have differnt views on many things.

Finally , one can go through life with a smile and try to make sense and see the best of everyone and or in anything, or people can walk around with a sad face and always thinking of whatever can happen to them:

rational, irational or try it with a smile and try to see the sunny side of ilfe.

Most of the time i try to use the last option: smile