It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
avatar
Lightsockie: Man, kinda feels like CDP is a bunch of teases. I pre-ordered the game back before it came out, cuz there was enough talk and hype about there being a Linux version (even that Steam fiasco). They always seemed to want to be in bed with Linux too, or at least that's the vibe I used to get. Now we get nothing and the only thing we can do is pretend no information is "they're working on it" information. I have a Witcher game I'll never be able to play ;_;

They also tease with that GoG client release that'll likely never come out. No love for our poor penguin. I feel like a battered wife, tbh.
I didn't pre-order it, since CDPR avoided confirming Linux release. Why would you pay so much money for a game that you can't even play?

What I personally don't like is that they don't communicate with the community and in general became completely closed lately.
Post edited March 03, 2016 by shmerl
avatar
shmerl: I didn't pre-order it, since CDPR avoided confirming Linux release. Why would you pay so much money for a game that you can't even play?
One part stupidity, three parts optimism, and five parts misplaced trust
avatar
shmerl: What I personally don't like is that they don't communicate with the community and in general became completely closed lately.
The completely closed lately thing is what's really kind of depressing/scary to me. That's the core of my "battered wife" statement, they were so open and willing to work with the community before, but now they seem to have closed their doors and "mum's the word". I don't want to be strung along. I'd rather hear "there's no plans for it at this time" than the non-answers we get. If they're just not sure, than I'd rather hear that. What's so hard to say "we've got these other projects we've got the crew sweating over, and the Linux port is a stretch. We want to, but right now we're keeping our heads above the water else where. Don't hold your breath, guys"
avatar
Lightsockie: I'd rather hear "there's no plans for it at this time" than the non-answers we get. If they're just not sure, than I'd rather hear that. What's so hard to say "we've got these other projects we've got the crew sweating over, and the Linux port is a stretch. We want to, but right now we're keeping our heads above the water else where. Don't hold your breath, guys"
I suspect there have several reasons why they dropped all communication lately.

1. Some marketing suits there decided that not communicating at all is better than open communication. This way they think they'll avoid previous downgrade fiasco they faced. I'd argue however that more open communication is a much better method for fixing such issues and all they do with this stuff is making them look like usual corporate types who don't care about the community.

2. Legal threats. Basically talking too much about TW3 made them accused with stock market manipulation in Poland. So may be they decided it's easier not to communicate at all to avoid legal risks. I'm not an expert on legal situation in Poland, may be someone can explain what better methods they could use.
avatar
shmerl: I didn't pre-order it, since CDPR avoided confirming Linux release. Why would you pay so much money for a game that you can't even play?
avatar
Lightsockie: One part stupidity, three parts optimism, and five parts misplaced trust
Right there with you. Collecting dust on the virtual shelf for over a year now.
If they would use the Unreal Engine or Unity 3d or other modern engine, they could just make the game and export it for windows (dx 11), mac (open gl 4.1 or metal) and linux (open gl 4.5) without change a line of code (and without bother for choose low level API).
But they decide to make a new engine.... and they decide to make a windows-only engine.
Personally I would have bought the game on the first day if there had been a mac version.

the decision to create an engine that is not cross-platform in 2016 I do not quite understand, since there are no less than 2 free engine already cross-platform.

That said, the witcher 1 was fantastic, but the witcher 2 was not. So maybe the Witcher 3 is not as good as they say.

I always try to buy only cross-platform games because I like to change OS often. And since wine is only compatible with dx 9 I will just ignore new games (on 2016 only few triple A, so it's not a big lose).
avatar
LiefLayer: the decision to create an engine that is not cross-platform in 2016 I do not quite understand, since there are no less than 2 free engine already cross-platform.
Their engine is cross platform already (PS4 has completely different APIs from Windows). Except they didn't care to make it Linux compatible from the beginning. When they decided to add Linux support, it was way late in the development, and I suspect major delays were caused by the usual middleware features creep.

I.e. hypothetically the process could go like this (it's pure speculation of a possible scenario):

1. Let's make a new game! We target consoles and Windows (engine is in house like in the second game but newer).
2. Most of the heavy lifting is done. On Windows it's DX11.
3. Demand for Linux games is increasing, and there are Steam Machines coming. Should we make TW3 for Linux? Probably yes.
4. Some start working on OpenGL variant of the engine.
5. Khronos says Vulkan will be released as next generation graphics API.
6. Should we continue OpenGL work or pause until Vulkan is out? Probably pause.
7. Vulkan takes quite some time to come out. We wait.
8. Vulkan is out! And it's almost a whole year since release of the game. Let's start working on the Linux version from scratch, hehe.

Do you think it's an impossible scenario?
avatar
shmerl: Their engine is cross platform already (PS4 has completely different APIs from Windows). Except they didn't care to make it Linux compatible from the beginning. When they decided to add Linux support, it was way late in the development, and I suspect major delays were caused by the usual middleware features creep.

I.e. hypothetically the process could go like this (it's pure speculation of a possible scenario):

1. Let's make a new game! We target consoles and Windows (engine is in house like in the second game but newer).
2. Most of the heavy lifting is done. On Windows it's DX11.
3. Demand for Linux games is increasing, and there are Steam Machines coming. Should we make TW3 for Linux? Probably yes.
4. Some start working on OpenGL variant of the engine.
5. Khronos says Vulkan will be released as next generation graphics API.
6. Should we continue OpenGL work or pause until Vulkan is out? Probably pause.
7. Vulkan takes quite some time to come out. We wait.
8. Vulkan is out! And it's almost a whole year since release of the game. Let's start working on the Linux version from scratch, hehe.

Do you think it's an impossible scenario?
Yes I know that since they create a console version you can consider their engine cross-platform... but I was only talking about computer.
Anyway both Unreal and Unity3d support not just windows, linux and mac, but also ps4, xbox one (and ios, android, wii, windows phone, webgl and other platform).
And when you choose to create a game with that modern engine you don't have to worry about graphics API (like open gl or directx) because the engine just choose the best API for you when you compile the game.
That's why I don't understand why create a new engine when you cannot create a cross-platform (windows, linux, mac, console at least) engine, many triple A are made with Unreal Engine so why choose to create a new Engine?

Yes, I think it's a possible scenario, I also think they would like to just port the witcher 3 like they ported the witcher 1 and 2 with eON (that it's a sort of wine)... but they didn't know that wine only support dx9 for now.

if they really want to just port the game they could just ask Feral that are able to make many great mac and linux native port.

I think they just don't care to make a mac or linux release now, they will do it when they could make it with eON (or something like that).
avatar
LiefLayer: if they really want to just port the game they could just ask Feral that are able to make many great mac and linux native port.
I think the answer to that is they don't just want to simply port Witcher 3 to Mac/Linux, but the entire engine. By doing so they wouldn't have to:

1) Outsource every game they release.
2) Depend on the porting company for updates and optimizations.
3) Waste money for each game ported.

It would open up day 1 Mac/Linux releases and many other advantages, you probably get the idea already.

Porting this engine for Mac/Linux might be harder than one thinks, if they go with OpenGL it's well and good, supported on all OS's. With Vulkan however it's Windows/Linux only, so CDPR would have to either use Metal or good old OpenGL and that's a lot of work right there.

NOTE: Despite eON being similar to Wine, it has one major advantage: can execute DX11 games (such as Dirt Showdown) whereas DX11 on Wine is still in very early stages.
Post edited March 07, 2016 by Ganni1987
Also, there is no point asking why they didn't use Unreal and etc. They are interested in investing in their own engine which they can develop any way they want, have expertise in it, and even license it to others (they specified such plans explicitly). So that's exactly what they are doing. As @Ganni1987 said, outsourcing such work to others is a bad idea. Not only you don't accumulate expertise - you have to go through the extra overhead and probably end up paying more money anyway.

Also, I expect because of all this Metal mess, and Apple refusing to support Vulkan in addition to stagnating OpenGL there, OS X will soon become very unattractive platform for developers.
Post edited March 07, 2016 by shmerl
avatar
shmerl: Also, there is no point asking why they didn't use Unreal and etc. They are interested in investing in their own engine which they can develop any way they want, have expertise in it, and even license it to others (they specified such plans explicitly). So that's exactly what they are doing. As @Ganni1987 said, outsourcing such work to others is a bad idea. Not only you don't accumulate expertise - you have to go through the extra overhead and probably end up paying more money anyway.

Also, I expect because of all this Metal mess, and Apple refusing to support Vulkan in addition to stagnating OpenGL there, OS X will soon become very unattractive platform for developers.
I think Linux can easily surpass (and probably will) Mac in gaming terms, because Linux can be installed on almost every hardware combination, it's available to everyone and building a Linux system is more affordable than any Mac out there.

Another point in favor of Linux is support for Oculus VR, something where Mac gamers' fate is in Apple's hands. And to this day, I'll never understand why Apple didn't go with Vulkan, they just have to do things their own >weird< way.
avatar
Ganni1987: I think the answer to that is they don't just want to simply port Witcher 3 to Mac/Linux, but the entire engine. By doing so they wouldn't have to:

1) Outsource every game they release.
2) Depend on the porting company for updates and optimizations.
3) Waste money for each game ported.

It would open up day 1 Mac/Linux releases and many other advantages, you probably get the idea already.

Porting this engine for Mac/Linux might be harder than one thinks, if they go with OpenGL it's well and good, supported on all OS's. With Vulkan however it's Windows/Linux only, so CDPR would have to either use Metal or good old OpenGL and that's a lot of work right there.

NOTE: Despite eON being similar to Wine, it has one major advantage: can execute DX11 games (such as Dirt Showdown) whereas DX11 on Wine is still in very early stages.
I didn't know eON could execute dx11... now I really cannot understand why they still wait to port the witcher 3.

avatar
shmerl: Also, there is no point asking why they didn't use Unreal and etc. They are interested in investing in their own engine which they can develop any way they want, have expertise in it, and even license it to others (they specified such plans explicitly). So that's exactly what they are doing. As @Ganni1987 said, outsourcing such work to others is a bad idea. Not only you don't accumulate expertise - you have to go through the extra overhead and probably end up paying more money anyway.

Also, I expect because of all this Metal mess, and Apple refusing to support Vulkan in addition to stagnating OpenGL there, OS X will soon become very unattractive platform for developers.
Well OSX has always supported opengl, but it has always used an older version. I think they will port Vulkan but only after some years, so to standardize ios and osx they decide to port Metal to OSX too. I don't think they will end open gl support, but since they wrote metal for ios they decide to port to osx because it was ready.
I don't think Indie game developer will change their release because of Graphics API, most indie developer already use premade graphics engine and most program don't need Vulkan... Also since iOS have a good market and you need a Mac to develop for iOS I think OSX will continue to attact some developers.

I understand that they want to create a engine to license it, but they can not compete now.
Now there are 2 good game engine that are free to use, and can export for lots of platform.... and that engine can be used on Windows, Mac and Unreal can also be used on Linux (Linux version of Unity3d is in beta now).
There is also some good paid engine (like cryengine) that can export for many platforms.

And they want to compete in this market with their engine that only support windows development, and windows+ console export (and that you cannot use for mobile development)... As a developer I do not understand why one should choose their engine (aside for marketing reason... like: "this game use the same engine of The Witcher 3.... so buy it... LOL".

They are trying, but they are already late. As soon as they have a good engine it will be already old (just look how many features got the last update of Unity3d... and look how many feature they still want to update... just watch the difference between version 5.2 and 5.3, and between 4 and 5, and between 3 and 5... In a few years they have made many steps forward. Same can be said for Unreal Engine.
I don't think CD Projekt are able to make a better engine.
avatar
LiefLayer: They are trying, but they are already late. As soon as they have a good engine it will be already old (just look how many features got the last update of Unity3d... and look how many feature they still want to update... just watch the difference between version 5.2 and 5.3, and between 4 and 5, and between 3 and 5... In a few years they have made many steps forward. Same can be said for Unreal Engine.
I don't think CD Projekt are able to make a better engine.
You can always make something better. Their engine is good, and if they'll rewrite it with Vulkan and make it more parallelized - it will be even better, plus will gain Linux support (allowing them to release Witcher 3 for Linux as a side benefit). So why not do it? In some of its capabilities their engine is probably more advanced than Unreal.

They aren't keeping it constant either, they are working on it further and it will be used in Cyberpunk 2077. So their engine is pretty competitive I'm sure. But in order to release it for others they need to take care of cross platform support first.

See here about their view on the engine and further plans:
https://www.cdprojekt.com/resources/document/ENG/CD_PROJEKT_Group_Strategy_-_English.pdf

It's somewhat outdated though.
Post edited March 08, 2016 by shmerl
Here is my understanding:

I'm guessing that The Witcher 3 already went through some optimization steps that make it a bit harder to port it easily to another graphics library. Also, graphics are not the only thing that differs between Linux and Windows. Audio and other libraries that may not be developed in-house (e.g. physics and AI for instance) may limit CDPR's choices.

I also think that the new Cyberpunk game will reuse the same engine used for TW3 to make it reach the market faster.

Hopefully, this means that their engine team is free to work on their next engine version, and may be looking at Linux support, and evaluating Vulkan. If they want to license their game technology (has anyone used it outside of CDPR?), then cross-platform support is a must, especially given the current game engines landscape (such as Unity, Unreal and Tech to name some well known ones).

Ideally Vulkan will prove to be a superior choice, drivers will be available and CDPK will create some "copatibility layer" that will allow them to plug their more recent games into the new technology, in order to sell the games in new platforms (maybe The Witcher 3 Remastered/Director's Version) and also to push newer DLC that makes use of the improvements.

That is how I see things. Now, could someone please tell me about GOG's "previous downgrade fiasco" that was mentioned? I know nothing about it, and I do not enjoy GOG's current silence pose.
avatar
Gede: That is how I see things. Now, could someone please tell me about GOG's "previous downgrade fiasco" that was mentioned? I know nothing about it, and I do not enjoy GOG's current silence pose.
Here is the review: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2015-05-19-cd-projekt-red-tackles-the-witcher-3-graphics-downgrade-issue-head-on

TL;DR: They showed a preview of the game in advance (on E3 2013), then made major changes to graphics without communicating anything to the community, and when it was released much later, people were upset about what they saw as "downgrade".

The reason for their silence was rather strange if you ask me:

Q: Why didn't you say anything until now?

"Frankly speaking because we didn't see it as a problem," Iwinski admits.
Now instead of communicating changes more, they don't communicate at all about anything. It could be a way to avoid such marketing fiascos. But I think it's an inferior method. Communicating more helps more.
Post edited March 09, 2016 by shmerl
and down grade witcher 2 and 3 to witcher 1 graphics so i can play ^_-