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snowkatt: but bane isnt a grunt he wasnt a grunt in knightfal he engineered the whole set up to grind batman down and figured out that batman is bruce wayne
does that sound like a grunt to you ?

the movies and cartoons have just misrepresented him bane's intelligences is on par with batman's
hell after knightfall not even dc knew what to do with him he should have just faded away
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Klumpen0815: Hmm, I have read hundreds of X-Men comics, but not much of Batman, somehow I assumed, that the Bane from the animations wasn't too far off. I thought he was good in using very basic tactics to get to him and that's it.

He did get those massive steroids in the comics though, right?
yes he did
he was one of the test subjects on pena dure ( or duro ) to test the drug venom
he faked his death but was the only one who actually survived

the original bane the knightfall bane at least is rather intelligent but he really was a one note character
he sussed out who batman was
brought him to the edge
beat him within in an inch of his life
and then broke his back

where exactly can you take a character from that ? its all downhill from there
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tinyE: I liked Doom 3 too. It had it's share of problems no doubt but I always keep it installed for a head rush from time to time.
I liked what they did with it in terms of pacing and atmosphere. We already had Painkiller and didn't really need another game doing the same thing. Doom 3 was something a bit different for an id FPS. Some very obvious oversights aside, it worked very well.
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tinyE: I liked Doom 3 too. It had it's share of problems no doubt but I always keep it installed for a head rush from time to time.
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Navagon: I liked what they did with it in terms of pacing and atmosphere. We already had Painkiller and didn't really need another game doing the same thing. Doom 3 was something a bit different for an id FPS. Some very obvious oversights aside, it worked very well.
duct tape ;p
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tinyE: I liked Doom 3 too. It had it's share of problems no doubt but I always keep it installed for a head rush from time to time.
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Navagon: I liked what they did with it in terms of pacing and atmosphere. We already had Painkiller and didn't really need another game doing the same thing. Doom 3 was something a bit different for an id FPS. Some very obvious oversights aside, it worked very well.
I still really enjoy it. The combat has that really solid Id feel, and I thought the way darkness works into it is really cool. Underappreciated game. It just suffers from having "Doom" in the title.

What I don't get is why Quake 4 gets a pass while Doom 3 gets all the hate. It's not like Quake 4 is very faithful to the Quake series either. It's basically a mid-late 2000 scripted linear FPS with Quake window dressing. At least Doom 3 fills an interesting niche.
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Navagon: I liked what they did with it in terms of pacing and atmosphere. We already had Painkiller and didn't really need another game doing the same thing. Doom 3 was something a bit different for an id FPS. Some very obvious oversights aside, it worked very well.
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jefequeso: I still really enjoy it. The combat has that really solid Id feel, and I thought the way darkness works into it is really cool. Underappreciated game. It just suffers from having "Doom" in the title.

What I don't get is why Quake 4 gets a pass while Doom 3 gets all the hate. It's not like Quake 4 is very faithful to the Quake series either. It's basically a mid-late 2000 scripted linear FPS with Quake window dressing. At least Doom 3 fills an interesting niche.
With the approval rating of DOOM 3 on Steam and just about any other online rating system though I'd say that the people who dislike the game are in the small minority, and if they're loud anywhere in particular online about it that they're just a very vocal minority. Everyone else who likes the game is playing it instead of responding to them. :) Except me of course, because I don't have it installed or easily available ATM. :)
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tinyE: I haven't seen Dark Knight Rises but I've heard it wasn't so much bad as it was just dwarfed by #2 which was so damn good. I mean there is really no way you could have brought any villain into #3 and hoped to match Joker.
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Klumpen0815: Dark Knight Rises wasn't really a bad movie but it wasn't good either.
They changed Bane too much in the direction of the Jokers personality and didn't just use him as the grunt he is, it's too obvious that he was only plan b ... damn your early death, Mr. Ledger! :/

The movie suffers the typical Christoper Nolan syndrome though:
It's long and tries hard to be special while in this case really being not and seeming much more silly because of this.
Some of my favourite movies are made by Nolan, he makes great movies and most of the time his formula works, it didn't in this one, probably because his well laid out plans were destroyed.

I always like the "old Batman" theme and that he is constantly struggling really hard and losing most of the time though.

Anyone who compares it to "The Dark Knight" would have been disappointed anyway, because this movie was just all levels of awesome at once.
Yeah, basically. The Dark Knight Rises was good, but there was just nowhere to go after The Dark Knight except down.
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Navagon: I liked what they did with it in terms of pacing and atmosphere. We already had Painkiller and didn't really need another game doing the same thing. Doom 3 was something a bit different for an id FPS. Some very obvious oversights aside, it worked very well.
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snowkatt: duct tape ;p
That and the enemy spawns / locations. You see, Doom 3 hit on something when it warped in enemies straight from hell. But rather than use that to create a degree of randomness and unpredictability, it was used to repeatedly spawn enemies behind you in a way that nearly bored me into a coma. If they mixed it up with some randomness they'd have you always on your toes. But no. They were very dull about it.

Then there's the chaingun, which could have been fixed a couple of different ways, but sucked as it was. It could have been a devastating weapon that had loads of ammo, but slowed you to a crawl. Meaning that picking it up was a sign that you're about to get mobbed. But once it's spent it's spent and it's too heavy to take with you.

Or they could have simply given the damn thing more ammo per belt.
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Navagon: I liked what they did with it in terms of pacing and atmosphere. We already had Painkiller and didn't really need another game doing the same thing. Doom 3 was something a bit different for an id FPS. Some very obvious oversights aside, it worked very well.
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jefequeso: I still really enjoy it. The combat has that really solid Id feel, and I thought the way darkness works into it is really cool. Underappreciated game. It just suffers from having "Doom" in the title.

What I don't get is why Quake 4 gets a pass while Doom 3 gets all the hate. It's not like Quake 4 is very faithful to the Quake series either. It's basically a mid-late 2000 scripted linear FPS with Quake window dressing. At least Doom 3 fills an interesting niche.
Completely agree. Calling it Doom was perhaps necessary as, even with id's reputation unscathed (as it was back then), releasing a new IP would be risky and would still be compared to existing id games regardless. However necessary it was though, there's no denying it was as much of a problem as it was a solution.

Quake 4 just felt like more of the same. It should have represented far more of an increase in scale, given that the initial wave (Q2) was supposed to be tiny by comparison to the invasion proper. But at that point, id just weren't making games that featured a load of characters on screen at once.
Post edited March 14, 2015 by Navagon
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jefequeso: I still really enjoy it. The combat has that really solid Id feel, and I thought the way darkness works into it is really cool. Underappreciated game. It just suffers from having "Doom" in the title.

What I don't get is why Quake 4 gets a pass while Doom 3 gets all the hate. It's not like Quake 4 is very faithful to the Quake series either. It's basically a mid-late 2000 scripted linear FPS with Quake window dressing. At least Doom 3 fills an interesting niche.
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skeletonbow: With the approval rating of DOOM 3 on Steam and just about any other online rating system though I'd say that the people who dislike the game are in the small minority, and if they're loud anywhere in particular online about it that they're just a very vocal minority. Everyone else who likes the game is playing it instead of responding to them. :) Except me of course, because I don't have it installed or easily available ATM. :)
Dragon Age 2 got several 5-star ratings, and that didn't make it good.
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Shendue: Devil May Cry 1 was better then the 3rd entry, and the same goes for Deus Ex.
Games in general seem less prone to sequel plague than movies. Metal Gear Solid is a 3rd game, and so are Legend of Zelda A link to the Past, Super Metroid, Super Mario Bros 3, Final Fantasy III, Tekken 3, Shenmu...no, wait.
I was comparing those with second installments to the series mainly; after DMC2 and Deus Ex 2 the sequels were a major improvement.
Besides, I never played DMC1 (and I rather enjoyed playing as Vergil in DMC3 SE); as for Deus Ex, I wouldn't be able to say which of the games is better, both the first one and HR have their strong points and different interesting themes and characters.

To the list of "3 != bad":
Bioshock Infinite
GTA 3
ARMA 3
Also, both "Lord of the Rings" and "The Hobbit" by Peter Jackson are trilogies.
Post edited March 14, 2015 by Sanjuro
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Sanjuro: To the list of "3 != bad":
GTA 3
I don't quite agree.
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Sanjuro: To the list of "3 != bad":
GTA 3
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Grargar: I don't quite agree.
I'm not into GTA series as a whole so I find it somewhat hard to defend my point here, but
Upon its release, Grand Theft Auto III received widespread critical acclaim. While minor problems and comments pertaining to graphics, performance and controls were noted, Grand Theft Auto III was touted as revolutionary by several game review websites and publications. According to Game Rankings, the game won several awards, such as GameSpot's Console Game of the Year, Game of the Year from GameSpy and Cheat Code Central, and Best Action Game of 2001 by IGN.
Source.
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Sanjuro: I'm not into GTA series as a whole so I find it somewhat hard to defend my point here, but

Upon its release, Grand Theft Auto III received widespread critical acclaim. While minor problems and comments pertaining to graphics, performance and controls were noted, Grand Theft Auto III was touted as revolutionary by several game review websites and publications. According to Game Rankings, the game won several awards, such as GameSpot's Console Game of the Year, Game of the Year from GameSpy and Cheat Code Central, and Best Action Game of 2001 by IGN.
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Sanjuro: Source.
Well, you did say "3 !=bad" for GTA 3 and I wasn't sure if you were joking/serious. I would never think of GTA 3 as a bad game (maybe aged when compared to the other installments, but that's about it).
Post edited March 14, 2015 by Grargar
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Grargar: Well, you did say "3 !=bad" for GTA 3 and I wasn't sure if you were joking/serious. I would never think of GTA 3 as a bad game (maybe aged when compared to the other installments, but that's about it).
Quite serious. The third GTA game wasn't worse than the previous ones, received a lot of positive reviews from the critics, sold well and attracted a lot of new fans to the series (same wiki article, "Legacy" section) so, while I can't count myself among the fans of this game or the series on the whole, it doesn't change the fact that the game belongs in this list.
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Shendue: Devil May Cry 1 was better then the 3rd entry, and the same goes for Deus Ex.
Games in general seem less prone to sequel plague than movies. Metal Gear Solid is a 3rd game, and so are Legend of Zelda A link to the Past, Super Metroid, Super Mario Bros 3, Final Fantasy III, Tekken 3, Shenmu...no, wait.
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Sanjuro: I was comparing those with second installments to the series mainly; after DMC2 and Deus Ex 2 the sequels were a major improvement.
Besides, I never played DMC1 (and I rather enjoyed playing as Vergil in DMC3 SE); as for Deus Ex, I wouldn't be able to say which of the games is better, both the first one and HR have their strong points and different interesting themes and characters.

To the list of "3 != bad":
Bioshock Infinite
GTA 3
ARMA 3
Also, both "Lord of the Rings" and "The Hobbit" by Peter Jackson are trilogies.
Yeah, actually, i did like Bioshock Infinite the best, in the trilogy. I think the first episode, thought atmospheric, lacks variety in terms of gameplay, and the second one is great in terms of gameplay and i really liked the storytelling (i think it makes a great work putting you into Delta's shoes in terms of transmitting you his fears of Eleanor being conditioned by his behaviour and i loved the emotional link between them) but it lacked in originality being basically "more of the same".
The third one is much brighter in atmosphere and less horrific (until the last part of the game, at least), which may have annoyed some people (personally i didn't mind it, it made the game fresh and different) but the gameplay is top notch and the narrative elements are pretty solid.
I've seen many people complaining about the game being not as good as the original Bioshock, tho, so it's very subjective.

Deus EX HR is great and a fitting sequel to the original Deus Ex, after the mediocre Invisible War, but it lacks the sense of freedom and the immersivity of the first game, that feeling of actually being in a larger world and being able to change the outcome of the story with your own actions. It feels like it has a smaller scope in comparison.
It does some things better, indeed. The enemy AI in the first game was especially flawed IMHO, for example. But overall the first game had a more "timeless classic" feel while playing it.

P.S. I think all the 3 Hobbit movies are pretty average, so that's more like a case of "Star Wars Episode X prequel syndrome".

P.P.S. They made an HD collection of Devil May Cry, so you have no excuses for not playing the 1st game. :P
Post edited March 14, 2015 by Shendue
Surprised no one mentioned Master of Orion 3 or Lords of the Realm 3 yet. I didn't buy those games on sale because of the community reviews