Hopefully, slightly implying something political isn't against the rules and I've kept the universality of things in mind. Again, the virus really doesn't give a damn about anybodies politics :>!

For instance, some german communities implemented these "test drive-ins" that become popular in South Korea. People are also talking about trying to make filter masks a thing, which is usually an east-asian thing and thats good for them as well (besides the psychological effect and that its also a easy way for kids to not touch their face that often, these maks are a good way to make sure that you have less of a chance of infecting others). Of course, on a country-wide spectrum, things seem laissez-faire as usual, its a german thing I guess.

People in several federal states are ensuring that masks may be produced quite soon, mostly because trade of these masks has halted due to slowed down productions and suspended/slowed-down trade in general. I guess it also depends on what side of Germany you're living.

Only because a politician said something doesn't make it a political issue in its entirety. While these new rules of "social distancing" are rules that can be linked towards a (or any) political camp, its also a bipartisan/universal one, as long as you can argue their validity from several perspectives with nuance you can circumvent any political bias that may have caused the rule to happen in the first place.

Besides the political implications, I do not agree with people downright comparing the numbers of infected people of another country with theirs alone, as you have to look into the numbers of infected/sick people and perhaps even population densities while also comparing the amount of people living inside the country, which in turn makes a country such as Norway one of the most affected countries, even though they right now have less then 2000 reported cases. I think that Germany does handle the situation fairly competently but then again we have to wait for another week or so until we can observe just how much the spread of the virus has been halted so far.

Yeah the solidarity against the pandemia is great to see.

This....ALL those helping other countries(and even people helping other people) are to be commended right now. :)
======================================

To all reading....the next reply bit is speculation/rumor for the most part, so take it with that in mind:

Might even be LESS.....well according to some RUMORS(plus some actual news that those rumor fed off of)....supposedly some companies had been working with developing a vaccine that might/would work on this BEFORE the pandemic, "oddly enough".

(Though it's likely just a coincidence and not anything sinister at play)

Thanks, that was very interesting. The situation with protective masks also seems to be very bad in Germany, there aren't nearly enough for hospital staff, so it's probably going to get pretty ugly in the health care system in the coming weeks.
Agree with you about European arrogance regarding China, too many people think that China is still a backward 3rd world country. According to the WHO fact-finding mission China actually used some pretty advanced methods for dealing with the epidemic (also on the level of individual treatment, e.g. "extracorporeal membrane oxygenation"...which already sounds super-advanced!), which might not be easily replicated on the same scale in Europe...so it will probably be worse here than in China.

A somewhat good post, but could I ask one thing of you if it's not asking too much?

If so, please try to avoid focusing(negatively OR positively) on any system(capitalism or any other system).....it doesn't really help things, and it's more people's actions that are to blame than what system they follow/like.

Agreed
================================

They also held people essentially at gunpoint and did a couple(actual and alleged) other unsavory things to get this under control.

In cases like infection rates, you have to look at populations not as individuals, but as a certain amount of numbers instead (just for the sake of statistics). What I mean is that I'm sure that people who're still outside because of their political leaning and because they're against certain rules would amount to significant spread of the virus, and that amount should be around 5-7% of the general population (more or less, but I'm certain its not the wrong amount of people). Note that I've packed those people in the same camp for simplicity even if they're not wholly affiliated with a certain political leaning.

Yeah, medical capacity is a difficult question for many countries. I wonder why nobody creates haphazzard hospitals like the Chinese did. AFAIK they built a whole hospital for infected people within 9 days or so. Many countries had months to prepare as well, China is the only country that got hit without preparation.

Keep in mind that many of the things you've listed are not wholly necissary for someone to recover. They're for the most parts aids (or helpers) and most primarily tools to recover people faster.

We can't fully evaluate if such a worst case scenarios will be the case, I don't think it will be this significant or otherwise millions are on the verge of getting sick today. It could be that by the end of this year millions could be infected but if its natural and alright. If more than 500.000 people (or 475.000 people) are infected/sick in around the next 6 weeks or so the health systems worldwide are in deep trouble. The point of it is that the virus spreads gradually until we're (genically) equipt to deal with it, through its difficult considering how fast it spreads.

From the scale of things we might really be in trouble, but not if things slow down at first on a global scale. Which is why people should actually stay at home more often just to slow down the general probability of the rate people can be infected. Of course there are huge amounts of people who can't due to work, which is why just living your regular life with the least amount of people you can be around with is the best course of action. Its merely a slight suspension on social life.

There is always bias for and against something, people will always get angry about their government even if hypothetically they did everything right. Its more difficult to get rid of such behavior than this virus thats for sure. In times like these, stay calm and bitch about the government a few weeks after thiis is over instead :D!

Even if you're wholly knowledgeable to the subject matter the best thing you can do is to be cautious and careful and be prepared (not by buying too many things in advance but rather to inform yourself on the virus and how it spreads and act level headed accordingly). If you begin to panic then you've already lost, and your panic will virally affect others as well.

Yeah thats the usual hubris from any modern government. Just doing the easiest possible action all the time. Its a difficult subject for sure, because countries are always slow in decision making.

It also depends on how slow these beds are "filled up". If you've cured from covid-19 and left the bed 2 weeks after being sick, you can use that bed for another person. This entire issue is primarily about capacities on the verge of systemic medicalcollapse, should the system get overstrained for too long.

You can already see this in the hysteria. Tons of people are panicing for no reason, which in turn does already give a sense of such overstraining capacities. Perhaps you heard about the term placebo, that effect is similar but it goes the negative way instead. Besides the scientific records of infection and death rates, if everyone believes that the system and the population is doomed more people will die out due to the general negativity and panic. This snowball effect is basically unstopable once it is within its public concious. Its difficult to convince people that things aren't too grim when its about a subject not even scientists fully even understand yet.

Thats my point, the problem is not this pandemia, its this AND everything else, including the memetic infections (fake news and other misinformation that provoke histeria. Memes = pieces of information, not to be confused with internet jokes.)

Yes, those who work "at ground zero" are the real heroes. And you got it correct, the sooner people act, the more people can be saved. Its about statistical exponentiality (I usually try keeping subjects as dry as possible and in cases like these statistics are helpful. As an example, people predicted this pandemia due to statistics decades prior without guesswork or pessimism).

EDIT: Oof, sorry for the long post :3!

We can't blame Covid-19 on the media.

Covid-19 is a virus (like Sars etc) and this one just happens to be incredibly contagious (like a common flu) with a range of symptoms that can often be mild, but when it is not it is very nasty, and both young and old are in danger if they catch it, with it obviously being more dangerous for the elderly.

The fallout of this virus has been predictable, in that it has damaged economic activity, and in this particular case those nations that have not stopped economic activity quickly (like they did in China) they have seen some of the worst problems associate with the virus.

But again we can't blame any of this on the media. Sure you get good and bad media coverage, and really all i can say is if you don't like the coverage your particular media channel is doing, either don't watch it or change to a news source you feel better about. All the media is doing is let people know (or lie about the truth) what is going on in relation to this virus.

If you follow the media that suggests this is all a hoax or a myth for reasons xyz, then you simply are putting your life and the life of your friends and family at risk. Just look at China or Italy to understand the reality of covid-19. Could a whole country make this up as a joke? I think not.

Now if you personally are upset because this pandemic has upset your daily routine, well tough luck. Grow up and understand the reality of the situation we are all facing.

Again the media are not to blame for covid-19, we will be to blame however by being too complacent over it. There are very few solutions to the problem it represents to us, and the smart money is in following the advice of the experts that understand the situation better than anyone (CDC, WHO etc).

Covid-19 is a virus, a virus NEEDS new people to move into and infect. Remove that vector (or reduce it enough) and the virus dies out. That is about the only solution until we get a proper vaccine (a way off for the moment). It's just what the experts will tell you.

I don't understand if you're referring to antrad's post or mine, but here's my answer. If not, well, don't consider it at all. ;)

That's not my entire point. What I blame is people which don't verify on official source like ministry of health site. The problem about the media is how they can spread panic. If I'm not wrong there are some other posts on this thread about they focus only on deaths and not on healings, for example.

In fact I don't watch media. I prefer to read news about virus on ministry of health site.

I live in Italy so I think I understand the reality of covid-19.

I understand the reality of the situation but I don't understand this point and even your tone... Maybe i didn't write well what I had in mind. I'll try to explain better my thoughts: I'm upset about every not verified news assumed by people as true. For example today on ministry of health site there's a new page about not to protect from the virus... but from the fake news, and I can assure you that I talk to people who believed that some of these were surely true.
Here's the link http://www.salute.gov.it/portale/nuovocoronavirus/dettaglioNotizieNuovoCoronavirus.jsp?lingua=italiano&menu=notizie&p=dalministero&id=4276 It's in italian but you can use google translate if you'd like to read it.

And again that's not my point. See the message above.

This is my point. Many people consider every message on social media or every news on media mainstream as THE truth, even without reading what the only official source says about it.
This time I hope you can understand my point.

That should have been stated more as my take on what might happen, not fact....sorry for that.

I worry too much in general, sadly.

Also I don't like getting caught with my pants down, so to speak(I had some small amount of supplies stocked up for ANY emergency MONTHS before any of this happened(though not nearly enough as I should've).

It should be, but then they should've done it when we heard of it in China(blocked all flights ANYWHERE, quarantined anyone coming in on planes still in flights, etc......this stuff now is much less effective then it likely could've been had we acted from "day one".

Also feel free to call me a pessimist/worrying ahead of time/etc, but I worry a bit about the govts dropping these measures in a decent period of time.

IMO(not sure, though) they'll either worry and keep them in place for FAR longer than needed, or they'll keep them there for their own ends(again citing public health and safety).

=========================================

Probably worry(likely unfounded in most cases) of looters(especially with the police in many areas only coming out now for serious matters).

Or with some it might be fear of confiscations/being told they cannot buy any(if they don't have one already) in some places**.

(**They already banned new gun sales in a few towns/cities across the US....so it's not an entirely unfounded fear, imo)

I'm bored again, time to contribute.
Of course not, I feel however that some media contribute to some of the panic to some capacities. Not every piece of media of course, but IMHO this is not the time for pompous headlines and stuff like that. Memetic science is your keyword there. I think the panic is caused by memetical degradation. If many people hear something that is complicated and takes some time to understand people will fill up the gaps with nonsense, the original and thus pure information will gets lost. Its part of the reason why people worldwide show the same behavior in bunkering toilet paper.

As user GameRager stated, its the nature of some people to panic. There is always a small very extreme destribution of people which react to sensible situations in an extreme manner. The reasons why that is are very specific though.

Incorrect, the virus is not covid-19, thats how the illness is called. The virus is called SARS-CoV-2 (same nomenclature as SARS-CoV from 2003). You should also inform yourself about SARS and its origins to understand why that specific strain of coronavirus is fairly unique and dangerous and why we have to get it of it quick (besides the things that I wrote about of course).

Indeed, through the ripple effect is more significant than anticipated. I've predicted something like this was bound to happen in October last year between 2020 and 2022, because it was statistically overdue. Most scientists that actually are real virologists and work in the field (I'm not :>!) predicted this a decade, or even 12 years prior, with almost 100% accuracy when it would happen.

That nobody listened is simply because of hubris. Be prepared of what will happen between 2030-2035, thats where the next, most likely worse, pandemia will/must happen. Again, some healthy alarmism should be warranted. After all, being prepared and learning so the next time doesn't seem too severe should be of anybodies interests now.

True, the population and the media must both be level headed now. Mistakes are common sense errors that everyone does. This sense of extreme retribution is primarily because social media and its baggage drives us around like dumb monkeys and a lot of peoples lives are directly controlled by it. It practically replaced medieval religious dogma. We became far too vindictive because of social media as well. People stopped seeing it as a tool and they let it became their life. The worst types of infection are those of the parasitic kind, where people believe they must depend on social media like their life is on the line without it (its a little bit more complicated as there are lots of careers made because they're famous due to social media, but thats besides the initial point).

Italy is the better example to name now as their infrastructure is about to collapse. China was quite close but they managed to handle the crisis extremly well.

Or talk to real virologists and practising doctors, or listen to podcasts where real doctors or virologists talk about stuff. I'm sure there exists some in your language (or maybe Italians doesn't have podcast culture, it would be strange but I have no idea).

Yeah, it will require some efforts to slow down infection rates vastly, in this case its best to distribute the virus smoothly and evenly to not overstrain the medical framework of anyones country.

Should things proceed I'm sure that within the next four months life can become "normal" again in most countries. I fear that many people became accustimized on the new lifestyle however and may show their own unique but extreme reactions once they're confronted again with normality (its a minority, but still worth of note).

EDIT: GameRager quoteed so he knows I wrote of him in this post.

EDIT 2: Just checked the thread again and this post got low-rated that has contents such as "listen to podcasts where real virologists talk about the topic" in it. But whatever, you guys do you :>!

"Experts" are people who herd sheep, and sheep appreciate that very much and take offense when they aren't lavished with deference -- in spite of the fact that they are designated by the people who fleece and eat them.

Wouldn't it be ironic if it turned out that this virus could be killed by going to a sauna or sweat lodge, and there was no medical necessity for a ginormously profitable vaccine? lol

Sure, I totally agree with this, I was already thinking back in January that it's kind of stupid not to put any restrictions on international travel, given what was going on in China. But unfortunately open borders dogma was more important, and as a consequence of that we're now in a truly terrible situation without any good options. imo there's no alternative now to a lockdown in many western countries, obviously it has to be evaluated after 6-8 weeks (which was about the time it took to have an effect in China).

Imo they should set a date then lock the entire country down....except essentials....then we would at least have a date to look forward to(even if they had to push it back a few weeks more) to to lift our collective spirits/hopes, and also the total lockdown nationwide might help it get cleared up faster and keep it from affecting too many more people.

Politicians in Germany are playing stupid political games as well, there have been rows between the minister presidents of Bavaria and North-Rhine-Westphalia over how to proceed (they both probably want to succeed Merkel as chancellor, so there's a rivalry who comes across as the better crisis manager). Pretty pathetic imo.
One problem of course is that so much medical equipment and drugs are manufactured in China nowadays, more needs to be done to ramp up emergency production capabilities in western countries.

I received this email from a close friend of mine, and have met the person who sent it to him. While I cannot personally verify, or authenticate the the information itself, I am just going to share it with you guys, to take from it what you will. It at least seems to make some sense, and offers an explanation as to why this particular virus strain is so much more dangerous then the usual seasonal flu. Again, take from it what you will.....

As I received it:


Received this from an acquaintance whose husband got a PhD from Columbia.
She is also well schooled.

To all.... stay healthy.

Thanks XXXX XXXXXXX for sharing:

“Best explanation I have read about the corona virus: Feeling confused as to why Coronavirus is a bigger deal than Seasonal flu? Here it is in a nutshell. I hope this helps. Feel free to share this to others who don’t understand... It has to do with RNA sequencing.... I.e. genetics. Seasonal flu is an “all human virus”. The DNA/RNA chains that make up the virus are recognized by the human immune system. This means that your body has some immunity to it before it comes around each year... you get immunity two ways...through exposure to a virus, or by getting a flu shot.
Novel viruses, come from animals.... the WHO tracks novel viruses in animals, (sometimes for years watching for mutations). Usually these viruses only transfer from animal to animal (pigs in the case of H1N1) (birds in the case of the Spanish flu). But once, one of these animal viruses mutates, and starts to transfer from animals to humans... then it’s a problem, Why? Because we have no natural or acquired immunity.. the RNA sequencing of the genes inside the virus isn’t human, and the human immune system doesn’t recognize it so, we can’t fight it off.
Now.... sometimes, the mutation only allows transfer from animal to human, for years it’s only transmission is from an infected animal to a human before it finally mutates so that it can now transfer human to human... once that happens..we have a new contagion phase. And depending on the fashion of this new mutation, thats what decides how contagious, or how deadly it’s gonna be..
H1N1 was deadly....but it did not mutate in a way that was as deadly as the Spanish flu. It’s RNA was slower to mutate and it attacked its host differently, too. Fast forward. Now, here comes this Coronavirus... it existed in animals only, for nobody knows how long...but one day, at an animal market, in Wuhan China, in December 2019, it mutated and made the jump from animal to people. At first, only animals could give it to a person... But here is the scary part.... in just TWO WEEKS it mutated again and gained the ability to jump from human to human. Scientists call this quick ability, “slippery”
This Coronavirus, not being in any form a “human” virus (whereas we would all have some natural or acquired immunity). Took off like a rocket. And this was because, Humans have no known immunity...doctors have no known medicines for it. And it just so happens that this particular mutated animal virus, changed itself in such a way the way that it causes great damage to human lungs.. That’s why Coronavirus is different from seasonal flu, or H1N1 or any other type of influenza.... this one is slippery AF. And it’s a lung eater...And, it’s already mutated AGAIN, so that we now have two strains to deal with, strain s, and strain L....which makes it twice as hard to develop a vaccine.
We really have no tools in our shed, with this. History has shown that fast and immediate closings of public places has helped in the past pandemics. Philadelphia and Baltimore were reluctant to close events in 1918 and they were the hardest hit in the US during the Spanish Flu.
Factoid: Henry VIII stayed in his room and allowed no one near him, till the Black Plague passed...(honestly...I understand him so much better now). Just like us, he had no tools in his shed, except social isolation... And let me end by saying....right now it’s hitting older folks harder... but this genome is so slippery...if it mutates again (and it will). Who is to say, what it will do next.
Be smart folks... acting like you’re unafraid is so not sexy right now. #flattenthecurve. Stay home folks... and share this to those that just are not catching on.”

heh. this is good advice to stay healthy, yes. has nothing specific to do with COVID-19, but eating fresh fruit, going for a walk, exercising, drinking in moderation, not smoking are all good advice for general health. (UV is a myth, though... need to be careful as it can give skin cancer)

edit: also -
"3. The lemon juice myth
Misleading information about other ways to prevent the virus has also been circulating on social media.

This includes a researcher said to be from Zanjan University in China, saying you should take as much vitamin C as possible to protect yourself from the virus. This was published in a news portal known as Viralmagazine.it, whose metrics say their article has been viewed over 576,000 times and gathered over 30,000 shares. The post also quotes a "Professor Chen Horin CEO of the Beijing Military Hospital" as saying that a hot drink with lemon can curb the spread of the virus.

But there are several things that are not right:

- the Chinese name of the researcher looks fake as it translates into English as "what is your name"

- Zanjan University does not exist in China

- the professor referred to has appeared before in misleading health advice about cancer

- And to be clear - there's no evidence at all that lemon juice or large doses of vitamin C will stop the virus."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-51819624