Thank you very much. You are very kind. ;-)

Amazing. UK "leadership" outdoes them all in terms of retardery (which in itself is quite an accomplishment). Simply astonishing!

This doofus hasn't heard yet that there is no "immunity" and that once you got it and recovered, there's a good chance you'll catch it again? Or does he not care? Or are the stories true that politicians hope to get rid of all the old and sick people that way, in order to keep the illusion of a working welfare state (free healthcare and all) alive for a while longer - at least for the people who happen to survive this ASININE policy. This is what gross incompetence and continued inaction has done to Europe.

They knew this was coming. They had 2 months to prepare. They did nothing. Germany closed its schools today until mid-April. By then, we'll have more of an idea just how many thousands of lives the government's gross incompetence has cost.

The reasons of limiting the free movement, except going to work, or for buying supplies or for important causes, closing pubs, museus, schools, parks, etc is to "flat the graph" of new contagium cases. That`s the way you can protect the old people and risky groups. So you do not colapse the health care services of each country, because they are not only treating coronavirus patients.

Then, past experience and speed are essential in a biological mundial crisis like this to flat the graph. The experience of China is the key in both.

Indeed, Taiwan has done greatly. South Korea has done greatly, too. Their use of technology and the attitude of the people have helped. Notice how they managed to flatten the curve from march the sixth, which means they harvested the results of work done at least an infection period before: +15 days. They reacted fast and well.

https://covid19graph.work/

Most countries have great technical personnel calling the shots, or better laying out options for those taking the decisions. This means that the disposition of the population in each country will have a definite weight in considering which measures could be actually implemented by all echelons of the civil service and authorities, and by every single citizen. If you are to take decisions, will people comply? will your political rivals support you or try to undermine you every step of the way? Do local cultural mores help or hinder the difussion of the virus? Will there be any untimely leaks?


As the people in Spain begin a lockdown that might be long, good luck and make the effort count.

As others have said online, it is a disproportionate response......washing hands/wearing masks/not touching some surfaces/not touching face until one has washed their hands/meeting in small crowds & at safe distances should be enough......not essentially locking everyone in their homes like prisoners.

I agree some measures to limit spread(closing schools/etc, limiting crowds at events or in buildings, etc) is prudent, though, and a good idea at this point.....just not full home isolation style lockdowns.


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People are trying to make every dollar count(well some of them anyways) maybe?

A good idea if one wants produce(fresh) might be to go to local farms.....as many throw out "ugly looking produce" as it is supposedly less sell-able in stores.

Fair enough......though on thinking about it: Haven't they had it over a week or so now?

Also it has some telltale symptoms so I assume the people who get sick again or others around them would notice.
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(I know, it seems like i'm being a stickler/nagging about this one point in general, but it seems odd that many countries(not just Italy) aren't reporting re-infection rates....which seems very odd/off to me)
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Plus aren't there electronic voting machines or mail in ballots in many countries now? I don't get why they don't set up a website(secure as heck, though, to prevent tampering) or some machines in limited locations for such(to help prevent spread/etc) if they "must" do these things.

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It's likely due to China pulling a "madagascar" on some of their major cities and other measures as soon as they could, as well as other factors.

That said, you and everyone else affected by this are in my prayers(fwiw).

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My mistake(seems I wasn't clear before with what I meant).....I meant BOTH reinfection and relapse rates(as one figure).....and how I felt it odd no one seemed to be reporting such.

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You wouldn't happen to have large single versions of each of those, by any chance?

If you do and have time to do so, please send them to me via PM(I'm making a scrapbook of sorts of news clips/articles/memes/political cartoons/etc to save for my own memories/etc).

Well of course...that's a no brainer**.....but they'll likely never realize that(or maybe they do and don't care).

Again, i'm shocked they didn't just set up a website or limited e-voting machines for it, OR go the old school route and have everyone mail in their vote.

That way people get to vote and not mingle in large crowds much/at all.
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(**=Just like how people low rating me, you, and others[without saying anything] are hurting the forums more than helping)
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True

Some new questions:

What about China? Surely they have data on average numbers of re-infections(amounts/average rates) by now.

One of the (many) problems here in Italy is that there is a severe shortage of protective masks. The problem is critical because if healthcare professionals don't wear a protective mask could get infected and spread the disease further, in addition to become unable to work.
According to our Government, lots (millions) of masks bought in foreign markets (mainly from chinese producers) get lost during the travel to Italy: they are currently being held in other countries because they have blocked every export and because they basically want to keep the masks for themselves.
Moreover, the problem is not only related to protective masks but it's more general in terms of medical supplies.

Here you can read an interesting article on the subject.

I'm not here to blame anyone, but this is a serious problem which leads to meditate about the existence of European Union itself.

Well, at least there are those plans to quarantine those over 70 for four months...so at least Johnson doesn't seem to want to let all the pensioners die. Will be interesting though how that will be implemented.
In Germany new restrictions have been announced today, most shops apart from supermarkets, pharmacies etc. will apparently be shut down. However no full lockdown like in Italy and France yet...but I expect that will come as well, maybe later this week.
Re shipments of masks blocked: I think Germany did that, and obviously it's wrong. As I understand it, the issue has been resolved (at least I hope so), but of course it shouldn't have happened in the first place.
I can understand to some extent that Italians feel let down, the response from Germany and France certainly hasn't been great so far, more help should have been offered. However I want to make two points: 1. imo much of this is motivated by fear, because Germany and France also aren't well-prepared, and both see numbers of Covid-19 infections steadily rising, 2. I have to say I find the "Only China is helping Italy" narrative that seems to be emerging a bit perverse tbh, because the disease probably originated due to Chinese negligence (unsanitary conditions on those food markets, or lax security at the Wuhan virology lab), and EU countries (including Germany) sent a lot of protective equipment to China in January, which must be a factor in the shortages with face masks, protective suits etc. which now are a problem in many European countries.
But I agree, the EU response to the crisis so far has been deficient and could have very negative consequences for the future of the EU (which imo would be quite sad, even though I disagree with much about the present state of the EU).

There are huge such shortages right across Europe, and yes this is a serious problem and I for one have no problem blaming the institution named in that article.

Germany only blocked a shipment from china to austria, not that makes this d*ckmove any better but a blockaded to
italy....wait italy has ports of its own where are the ships also....

Equipment for free from china to italy
https://twitter.com/VKJudit/status/1237448125800988675

and

FFP3 masks from china to italy
https://www.newsweek.com/chinese-company-donates-tens-thousands-masks-coronavirus-striken-italy-says-we-are-waves-1491233

and witth a nice quote
"We are waves of the same sea, leaves of the same tree, flowers of the same garden,"
quote from the ancient Roman philosopher Seneca
Xiaomi wrote on crates containing the Italian-bound face masks.

But this crisis was poorly managed

There was a diplomatic row with Switzerland as well over blocked shipments of face masks.
Anyway, we'll have to see, but unfortunately it's true that so far Europan solidarity hasn't been much in evidence during this crisis.

Speaking of shortages of FPP3 masks and pretty much the same for surgical ones, if really nothing else at hands which was the case for a while in Hong Kong, this video was put on the South China Morning Post and according to experts who devised it, it achieves a 90% filtering function of surgical masks.


https://www.scmp.com/video/lifestyle/3050732/experts-devise-do-it-yourself-face-masks-help-people-battle-coronavirus

Re-infection rates are difficult to quantify while the pandemic is spreading so quickly. A few articles on re-infections (below). While none offer much information on current re-infection rates, it does offer some good information. Unfortunately it seems to show that current tests are much less reliable than thought.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-china-reinfection-idUSKBN20Q1BK

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/they-recovered-from-the-coronavirus-then-they-tested-positive-again-why/ar-BB119ZIS

Snopes article:

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/covid-19-reinfection/

As I said it wasn't my intention to blame any countries and I surely understand the fear that every country feels right now.
My intention was to focus on the lack of a concrete coordination by EU in order to fight against the emergency. This is the real problem which can and should be blamed.

I see your point, but let me say that I don't feel right to blame chinese people for spreading the virus: they have paid on first hand and I'm not even sure there was any negligence by them. Moreover they can't be accused to have spread it on purpose, as said by some conspiracy theory. It simply happened and I think that it could have happened anywhere.

This is what I meant in the first place from a political, social and economical point of view. And I would say that the future of the whole world, not only of the EU, is involved.