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"China" returned 100 posts
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francksteel: How many people, in USA in particular, do believe in intelligent design, god creation 6 000 years ago, and will use their critical thinking (or what they believe to be critical thinking) to doubt evolution ? Last time I checked it was about 50 or more percent.
Actually, intelligent design and Darwinism isn't in conflict with each other...

Let's take an example; we humans (China?) create a new strain of virus (intelligent design) and "accidentally" release it to the "wide world web" and see it grows and mutate (darwinism).

It all depends on how you look at it; a cylinder might also be a rectangle or a circle.

Our carbon-dating techniques might be flawed, but the nonsense about only 6000 years old world is really an archaic way of looking at the world. I've never met anyone in real life or on the web that actually takes that seriously (but then again I, never go to such "meetings").

EDIT: Yes, no, we don't carbonating our finds, we carbon-dating them... XD

EDIT 2: Also, intelligent design isn't synonymous with common religion. USA has the last 40 years been neglecting education which also leads to more people adopting religion.
Post edited March 25, 2020 by sanscript
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sanscript: Actually, intelligent design and Darwinism isn't in conflict with each other...
I must totally disagree on that, intelligent design (tm) (c) is only a pseudo-science.

I just don't understand the parallel with "coronavirus created by China".
It's possible to test this theory (and there are good hints it's false : https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.02.974139v2 ) while creationist and ID share the same DNA : not possible to test their claims (cf Popper view of what is science or not)

a cylinder might also be a rectangle or a circle.
Depending of your point of view, you can see part of cylinder as a rectangle or a circle.
But 1/ a rectangle is not a cylinder and cannot be viewed as a cylinder.
2/ someone pretending that there are only rectangle and cylinders don't exist because if you look the RIGHT way you see only a rectangle is lying to you and taking you for an imbecile. That's what creationist and IDers do.

IDers voluntarily hide some experiments, observations, to let you think that there is only 'god' that can explain their views and that evolution cannot exist by itself.

Our carbon-dating techniques might be flawed, but the nonsense about only 6000 years old world is really an archaic way of looking at the world. I've never met anyone in real life or on the web that actually takes that seriously (but then again I, never go to such "meetings").
In USA : around 40 % of the USA people believe of world created less than 10 000 years ago.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/210956/belief-creationist-view-humans-new-low.aspx

If you add IDers or the like that is 76%. Only 19% don't need a puppeter or santa claus to guide evolution.

Remember also creationism is vastly taught in schools of USA(not every states) and sometimes (often) Evolution is not, or at best is said to be of the same level of proof than creationism. That will certainly have major effect in the next years.

If you want to see what such disbelief in science can lead (and I put IDers in the same bucket) : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Pi_Bill
It was in 1897. Not so far, hey !

EDIT 2: Also, intelligent design isn't synonymous with common religion. USA has the last 40 years been neglecting education which also leads to more people adopting religion.
OK it's not synonymous but Intelligent design is for me the Troyan Horse of creationism. If you believe in ID you are more prone after that to believe in creationism. Just modifying 6000 years to a few millions or billions doesn't really change anything. It's just that ID mimicks science to be appealing to more people, those with a faint taint of scientific education.
I must add that there are many "currents" of IDers, from the less religious and more 'scientific' to the more religious and more creationnist ones.

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richlind33: How many PHD's does it take to be able to say "I don't know", or grasp how corruption destroys the integrity of people and institutions?
I don't know, I know that a lot of PhD in France are quite angry against our government and how rich people are responsible of the actual crisis.
If you can translate that to english:
https://www.liberation.fr/debats/2020/03/24/j-ai-la-rage_1782912

How many incult persons does it take to say 'I know The Truth' and begin to burn books and then people ?
Well, I think coronavirus is going to teach us again the lesson (Yep, I'm a pessimistic person!)
Do you honestly think that crony capitalism is grounded in science? Of course it is ideology, because it is blatantly invested in it's own perpetuation.
+1000!
Post edited March 25, 2020 by francksteel
Sounds like bs to me, that would mean that Covid-19 is significantly less deadly than the seasonal flu epidemics, which can't be reconciled with what's been happening in China, Iran, Italy and Spain. imo media like the Financial times have a transparent agenda in promoting such stuff, they want an early end to lockdown measures for economic reasons.
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DadJoke007: I'm starting to get concerned about the potential famine when supply chains get disrupted. This doesn't look good for countries that are not self-sufficient when it comes to food.

The bigger the machinery, the more time it takes for it to start. The potential economical effect this might have is way scarier than any virus.
This....I have heard tell(haven't verified yet, but I likely will do so soon to be sure when I get the chance) one grocery not far from me shut it's doors for a bit due to having not much food to sell.

Also the store that are open have snacks/"luxury foods and drink" available and some other foods, but the staples are selling out quickly(or are gone in some cases).

In times like this i'm reminded of the story of the grasshopper and the ant.....the ant prepared while the grasshopper played around and laughed at the ant.....well many of us were like the grasshopper and now wish we were like the ant. :\
=========================================

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falloutttt: Say, we humies and all the creatures here on earth, have no eyes and incapable of feeling the heat from the sun. The question is, will the sun shine ? if we can't see it nor feel the heat ?

The answer is, No.
Yes, it will....we just won't see it or feel it.

(There are some animals that don't see or feel the sun's warmth/light, living in the darkest caves or ocean's depths, yet the sun still exists)

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falloutttt: Same with a tree falling where there's no one to see/hear it. If there's no one to see the tree falling, the tree simply don't exist.
The tree also exists.....for all intents and purposes the tree may as well not exist(if no one notices it), but it still physically exists.

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falloutttt: Here's a couple of clips that may help understand what I mean better:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgYQYUPKRHU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ub6jjjpM9dQ
I may watch them out of interest, but bear in mind I am more logical oriented, over philosophy, so it likely won't change my mind much(though I suppose anything is possible to some degree).

=================================================

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morolf: Sounds like bs to me, that would mean that Covid-19 is significantly less deadly than the seasonal flu epidemics, which can't be reconciled with what's been happening in China, Iran, Italy and Spain. imo media like the Financial times have a transparent agenda in promoting such stuff, they want an early end to lockdown measures for economic reasons.
One of the reasons Covid 19 is much deadlier is because we don't have a vaccine.......if we had one imo we'd likely have this much more under control(close to how it is with the regular flu season).

Also regardless of what they want, we have to likely re-open trade/the world within a certain period else face even worse financial times for everyone except maybe the super rich(including food shortages, lack of jobs for people to go back to, etc).

As I said earlier ITT, it's a tough decision and i'm glad I don't have to make it. :\
Post edited March 26, 2020 by GameRager
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Oghamis98: OK, cases are now reported to be over 50,000 (currently at around the 65 thousand or so mark) in the USA. Iran and Spain have it even worse, with satellite images showing that there's more deaths in the former than what the current government is claiming. Greece is going through similar lockdown measures as Italy right now.
Damn.....it seems the rumors of China doing the same thing last month might not be so far off, then, if Iran is also doing it.

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Oghamis98: Anywho, my candidates for a theme for COVID-19: https://youtu.be/JuP6Xt2poFQ https://youtu.be/OR_7h5DaI-E
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babark: I saw no indication that you were not being serious in your previous post where you (re)called into question the idea of mass graves being dug for corona victims.
Please read this bit again and note what I said & how I said it(bolded bits especially):

"Damn.....it seems the rumors of China doing the same thing last month might not be so far off, then, if Iran is also doing it."

The qualifiers in that statement are there to indicate to a reader(if they read slowly and carefully) that I am/was not stating mass graves were fact or anything like that.

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babark: Again, I did not mean my initial post as an attack, I just wanted to point out that at times like this, a cavalier attitude towards the truth (muddying the waters, spreading unverified information, etc.) is not really beneficial to society. "Common sense" before posting as well as after.
No worries.....I get that you likely mean well.....I just am less overly worried about "what ifs", and think responsibility should be equally spread between those reading things & those who write/post things anywhere.

That isn't to say I don't try to do my part to help by not spreading dumb info.....I do....if I post a questionable sources for some reason(or something similar) I always put a footnote in bold/underlined to denote such.

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babark: As far as my knowledge goes, my family is doing ok. They have always been self-sufficient, so it isn't so problematic for them to ride out isolation for a couple of weeks.
So supplies doing well? That's good.

Over here we're(my family) somewhat lucky.....we stocked up on TP before all this(a small amount) and some canned/etc food else we'd likely be using paper towels/etc to wipe by now & running out of food.

I have also been stocking up small amounts of other things like canned foods and such, as they keep longer, and other things here and there, but I have cut back shopping trips so as to not get sick/etc.

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babark: I am doing ok as well, but I wish I'd do something more productive than watch movies and shows.
You ARE doing something productive....you're helping "flatten the curve" and limit infections(to-from you and others). :)
Post edited March 28, 2020 by GameRager
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GameRager: "Damn.....it seems the rumors of China doing the same thing last month might not be so far off, then, if Iran is also doing it."
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GameRager: I just am less overly worried about "what ifs"...
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GameRager: I just am less overly worried about "what ifs"...
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babark:
Less doesn't mean NOT at all......also in that quoted bit I was talking about what ifs regarding people taking what I say the wrong way/in the wrong context/etc, not ALL what ifs in general.
I only know one thing right now... We italian are in a really bad situation and we received a lot of support from countries that usually are not part of our historical alliances. Especially China.
It is true that Italy has taken the first step by sending stocks of masks when the emergency was still only in China, but the way they are helping us and have started to help even the US (where Trump until recently gave him the fault of everything) makes me think that the Chinese people really have a much greater empathy and solidarity than I thought.
On the contrary, countries theoretically our allies part of the European Union (Germany, Holland etc ...) it seems that they are not even willing to act as guarantors for the debt that will necessarily have to be done in the coming months to face the coronavirus crisis.
Eurobonds (which would allow all EU countries to access negative interest rates such as Germany. debt that will still be paid by each country) have been severely hampered, although the proposal is not only Italian (at least 9 countries want them).
I have always been for a united and supportive Europe, I always thought that what the Greek people suffered was unjust (because the governments can be wrong, but the people cannot be brought to starvation if the UE it is really based on principles, and the UE should not only be an economic union, but rather a union based on common principles).
But this time it's not anyone's fault either. A virus that does and will do damage everywhere (even in selfish countries) should unite, not divide.

If countries like Germany don't change their way of thinking, I think future Europe will be different. Personally speaking, I don't want Europe to end, but if countries like Germany continue to think only of themselves I think another Europe will be founded among the countries that believe in stronger solidarity and the selfish countries will be left alone and isolated.
After all, Eurobonds need only be guaranteed by more than one state to guarantee a zero or negative interest rate. If our governments will be aware of that, the common bonds between France, Spain, Italy, Portugal, Greece, Ireland, etc., will have even lower interests than the bonds of Germany alone.

And who knows, maybe in the future an alliance with Russia and China that have proven to be human in this emergency much more than the "democratic" governments of northern Europe, will also be possible.

I specify that I am not accusing the German or other people of the anti-Eurobond blockade. I know that governments often make choices against the citizens themselves and since we are all European citizens, I think many feel close and are irritated by the selfish choices of those who govern.

I hope that no other country should suffer from what Italy is suffering and that an effective vaccine / cure will be found also thanks to the sacrifices made in the most affected countries.
Stay strong, this is the most important moment to save lives. I only thank that our health system is so efficient and public, otherwise I think it would have been an even worse massacre.
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Squirline: Is it true that quaranteen can last for a year?
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volkvolkvolk: Define quarantine.

Hopefully with warmer weather it will halt the spread of the virus, but virus itself won't just disappear, pig flu, bird flu and SARS still exist. A vaccine or new more efficient way of treatment will eventually pop up and it will be the end of it, but Europe is in for another month or two of this madness I'm afraid.
Warm weather doesn't seems to reduce really the spread - Australia, south america, antilles... --> warm weather, spread is growing.

No country will be able to stand a quarantine as one we have in Europe for more than 2 months without a complete change of economic systems and how money is created/distributed (and even if such a shift in the way most of the people think economy was possible, I don't think we would live in a pleasant world)

So, I'll bet that in 1 or 2 months :
- China will start buying big chunks of europe and USA industries;
- Europe and USA will go back to work but the number of diseased and death will rise again after a relative lowering.
- Africa will suffer of millions deaths, because of the disease and of the economy nearly killed.
- We will change nothing in the causes that made that kind of disaster possible : capitalism and tourism will work the same, public services will still be destroyed one by one,
- we are also suffering and will continue suffering of the diminishing of petrol extaction (which is the number 1 - by far - factor of GDP growth : in modern societies you can't have more GDP growth than petrol production growth)
- so as the "cake" will shrink, less and less rich people will take more and more % of it. Like in monopoly (tm).
Others can die.

Add to that climate change, and quarantine will soon be only one amongst many, many problems.
But we will be trying to solve them with the same "solutions" that caused the problems.
Post edited March 28, 2020 by francksteel