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Lifthrasil: Apparently many, many people can't grasp the very simple concept: if you don't like it, don't buy it. Instead they buy and complain and buy and complain in an endless cycle that makes Steam, Epic & co. rich.
IKR? Can't have it both ways. Either you take a stand, or you're slowly normalizing it and justifying it in your head.

Anyways, I'm seriously looking for Gabe's Promise™ that "Steam games will be safe if the service goes down" but I can't seem to find the Internet Archive link to the thread in question ever...can anyone help with this?
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DetouR6734: DRM is here to stay. Simple.
Probably. Though it's more a push from large corporations wanting to own/control everything and less to do from devs.

I'm pulling back to look at CD's with rootkits, DVD's with encryption and requiring keys to decode that's included on the dvd player so you can't copy/play it unless it's on a device/software that is in on the agreement. Propriety and 'trade secrets'.

Then finally there's the people with money. Celebrities, hard working people, CEO's and others, who just want at the end of the day to pop a disc in and watch their movie and don't care about what runs it, only that they get it.

Perhaps all we can do is protest in our own way.
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Lifthrasil: Apparently many, many people can't grasp the very simple concept: if you don't like it, don't buy it. Instead they buy and complain and buy and complain in an endless cycle that makes Steam, Epic & co. rich.
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PookaMustard: IKR? Can't have it both ways. Either you take a stand, or you're slowly normalizing it and justifying it in your head.

Anyways, I'm seriously looking for Gabe's Promise™ that "Steam games will be safe if the service goes down" but I can't seem to find the Internet Archive link to the thread in question ever...can anyone help with this?
I remember it being something he said in an interview. It's not part of the TOS or any contract with the customer.

And, even if you take him at his word, all Steam can really promise is the removal of their own DRM. They won't be removing Denuvo, for instance, from anyone's game.
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scientiae: Another concern, especially now, is that computers aren't sold with optical drives anymore. So a game like Rome — Total War is now impossible to play, since it requires the play disc to be installed whilst the game is operating, and it isn't sold here.
If you want a desktop PC with an internal optical drive, use the internet and buy one. Or do you only buy OEM computers?

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scientiae: I assume it's possible to connect a Blu-ray/DVD player via USB and use that as a bootable drive for the play disc, but I have yet to test it …. assuming a BiOS update to include the external optical drive will be all that is necessary. If not, then I now have no access to all the old games I have on optical storage, except for those Gog have in the catalogue (like Dragon Age).
Bios update? How ancient is that PC of yours?
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scientiae: Another concern, especially now, is that computers aren't sold with optical drives anymore. So a game like Rome — Total War is now impossible to play, since it requires the play disc to be installed whilst the game is operating, and it isn't sold here.
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teceem: If you want a desktop PC with an internal optical drive, use the internet and buy one. Or do you only buy OEM computers?
I just bought a new laptop, thankyou for your interest, and they do not come with optical drives. I could have built a custom (non-OEM) laptop, but the space constraints would have meant a trade-off losing either the solid state or the mechanical drive, both of which I thought were less attractive.
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scientiae: I assume it's possible to connect a Blu-ray/DVD player via USB and use that as a bootable drive for the play disc, but I have yet to test it …. assuming a BiOS update to include the external optical drive will be all that is necessary. If not, then I now have no access to all the old games I have on optical storage, except for those Gog have in the catalogue (like Dragon Age).
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teceem: Bios update? How ancient is that PC of yours?
In answer to your question, I bought a replacement for the laptop that is about to be a teenager, since the data I work with would be a catastrophic loss, should the hardware fail.

Edit. Actually, you're right —— a BiOS update to add the (external) optical drive into the boot chain would be unnecessary. The drive would presumably be plug&play, so as long as the game recognizes the optical drive, then the game should still be happy with the play disc situated in it.
Post edited July 06, 2019 by scientiae
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misteryo: I remember it being something he said in an interview. It's not part of the TOS or any contract with the customer.

And, even if you take him at his word, all Steam can really promise is the removal of their own DRM. They won't be removing Denuvo, for instance, from anyone's game.
There was his post on the old steam forums. Problem is I was in that thread before but now it eludes me...
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PookaMustard: Anyways, I'm seriously looking for Gabe's Promise™ that "Steam games will be safe if the service goes down" but I can't seem to find the Internet Archive link to the thread in question ever...can anyone help with this?
That was me that posted the link before. Here you go:-

"If you right click on a game in Steam, you'll see that you can back up the files yourself. Unless there was some situation I don't understand, we would presumably disable authentication before any event that would preclude the authentication servers from being available. We've tested disabling authentication and it works." - Originally Posted by Gabe

[url=http://web.archive.org/web/20100108013432/http://forums.steampowered.com:80/forums/showpost.php?p=10642189&postcount=28]http://web.archive.org/web/20100108013432/http://forums.steampowered.com:80/forums/showpost.php?p=10642189&postcount=28[/url]

Edit: You might just have to copy the relevant url out starting with the first http and ending with the first =28 as GOG forums seem to mess up redirecting URL's like web archive's.

Here's an easier to quote screen-shot of the same post if you need it:-
https://i.imgur.com/VEJwY38.jpg

As I previously commented when analyzing his quote, there never was any such promise or guarantee by Gabe or anyone else at Valve, just a whole lot of people putting words into his mouth then telling each other what they want to hear.
Post edited July 06, 2019 by AB2012
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scientiae: I just bought a new laptop...
Ok, that explains it, you didn't mention it was a laptop.
Anyway, no problem, just get a USB optical drive - nowadays they're just plug-n-play. For most disc based games you can just make an image (ISO) and they'll work without the disk in the drive.
Some games use "special" CDs or DVDs that can't easily be imaged... you'll just have to google the solutions for those.

I have 83 physical games (233 total) that aren't on GOG. I just downloaded the cracked versions - a lot quicker than figuring out what copy protection they all use and trying to image them all.
And no I'm not a pirate - I don't care what some people/companies think - I paid for all those games.
Post edited July 06, 2019 by teceem
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scientiae: I just bought a new laptop...
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teceem: Ok, that explains it, you didn't mention it was a laptop.
Anyway, no problem, just get a USB optical drive - nowadays they're just plug-n-play. For most disc based games you can just make an image (ISO) and they'll work without the disk in the drive.
Some games use "special" CDs or DVDs that can't easily be imaged... you'll just have to google the solutions for those.
Yeah, I realized my over-thinking about the time you posted your reply!
As the disc is used for DRM, I wonder where the ISO would need to be located, since the game would presumably be looking for a logical equivalent to an optical drive. I have always wanted to use a library of ISO images instead of actual discs, but I didn't think it was possible. (I feared the internal optical on my old laptop would fail at any time, since I had to swap out discs to play different games. That was one of the motivations for purchasing games here. :)
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scientiae: Yeah, I realized my over-thinking about the time you posted your reply!
As the disc is used for DRM, I wonder where the ISO would need to be located, since the game would presumably be looking for a logical equivalent to an optical drive. I have always wanted to use a library of ISO images instead of actual discs, but I didn't think it was possible. (I feared the internal optical on my old laptop would fail at any time, since I had to swap out discs to play different games. That was one of the motivations for purchasing games here. :)
Windows 10? Just right click your ISO and mount it. It'll appear like any other real optical drive. ;-)

https://www.howtogeek.com/230773/how-to-play-pc-games-that-require-safedisc-or-securom-drm-on-windows-10-8.1-8-7-and-vista/
Send me a personal message if you want to know how I've archived all my old disc based games. ;-)
Post edited July 06, 2019 by teceem
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scientiae:
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teceem: Windows 10? Just right click your ISO and mount it. It'll appear like any other real optical drive. ;-)
That is excellent news.

Merci / Dankjewel. :)


edit: linguistically apropos thanks (Walloon/Flemish).
Post edited July 08, 2019 by scientiae
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Lifthrasil: Apparently many, many people can't grasp the very simple concept: if you don't like it, don't buy it. Instead they buy and complain and buy and complain in an endless cycle that makes Steam, Epic & co. rich.
I think people understand that, and the issue is more that they don't ACTUALLY care that much about what is seen online as a big problem. Either they're complaining online for fun but don't actually care much, or they're one of the vast, silent majority that don't complain online. Either way... if people ACTUALLY cared, and ACTUALLY were strongly against these things, they wouldn't buy them. Their purchase is a sign they don't really care that much.

I was actually very against Diablo 3's always online requirement, bigger online focus and auction house, so I didn't buy it. I'm kind of annoyed by Steam DRM but at the end of the day don't care THAT much, so I buy games there anyway.
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StingingVelvet: I was actually very against Diablo 3's always online requirement, bigger online focus and auction house, so I didn't buy it.
That's all fine and dandy, but just don't think that you're sending a message. (I'm not saying that that was your intention - but I've read it quite a few times here on GOG... not buying a game = communicating a statement.)
is teh op even still alive? brrr
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teceem: That's all fine and dandy, but just don't think that you're sending a message. (I'm not saying that that was your intention - but I've read it quite a few times here on GOG... not buying a game = communicating a statement.)
I think every purchase or non-purchase is a message, either for or against. Capitalism is like democracy in that way, everyone "votes" for what they like and the majority wins. I know what you mean though, my "vote" didn't mean jack because the game sold crazy well, and yeah I know that. It was just a step too far for me to accept, so I made my decision, and it is what it is.

I respect people so against Steam/Origin/Uplay style DRM that they don't support it, but like you say... it doesn't really mean much. The vast majority support it, so it "won" the "vote." If Stadia works as well as the beta testers said it does then I'd guess that'll win out eventually too, and there's nothing we can do about it.