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Breja: And...? Look, I get it that moobot is quite annoying and has all the rhetoric skill of a moose with a severe head injury, ...
LoL.
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AB2012: Over on one of the other threads last October when he was in full Steam-salesman thread-crapping mode, claiming that GOG's "secret" update of the EULA at the time (which was hardly any secret) meant Section 17.2 of the EULA (that deals with GOG cancelling your account for serious breaches like hurling death threats at GOG staff) = them retroactively deleting your games (retroactive in that conversation meaning "everything you already have downloaded" as offline installers) and somehow trying to equate GOG banning someone for death threats with Steam 'subscribers' being left unable to play most games on Steam if they ever disagree with any future changes in the Steam client's EULA to the point they click "decline" and it doesn't install (then they couldn't even download 'DRM-Free' stuff via the client)...

As you can see also from that thread (such as the contents from post #57 which you'll recognise multiple times in this thread) everything else gets literally cut and pasted word for word 1,000x over in post after post, thread after thread, week after week, month after month, exact wording the same with zero variation, almost like a spam-bot being run from Valve-central...
Oh dear, I just went through that thread as I'd missed it back then. He sure seems to love spouting a lot of misinformation. I mean, only he knows how being informed via email 30 days in advance is entirely secret and GOG doing it basically under your nose and you didn't even know.

As for his post #90, it's completely disingenuous, as it's a direct reply to HereForTheBeer's question right above it [emphasis added]:
Can gOg's retroactively prevent you from playing your games?
And when HereForTheBeer restated the frame, he simply didn't come back to acknowledge it, let alone retract his erroneous statement. And as also evidenced here, it seems to be his M.O.

Doesn't matter what you think, but those figures dwarf any gaming platform in the world.
Doesn't matter what you think, but 1 trillion flies eat shit, so this figure shows that shit dwarfs any dishes the best cookers can do in the world.
Post edited March 04, 2019 by francksteel
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Doesn't matter what you think, but those figures dwarf any gaming platform in the world.
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francksteel: Doesn't matter what you think, but 1 trillion flies eat shit, so this figure show that shit dwarfs any dishes the best cookers can do in the world.
Even Gordon Ramsay?
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francksteel: Doesn't matter what you think, but 1 trillion flies eat shit, so this figure show that shit dwarfs any dishes the best cookers can do in the world.
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tinyE: Even Gordon Ramsay?
Go figure ;-)
I think people will continue to support Steam because of their larger Library of games, not to mention that a large amount of developers release on steam. As for DRM, a fair amount of people don't care about it.
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CalebDhew: I think people will continue to support Steam because of their larger Library of games, not to mention that a large amount of developers release on steam. As for DRM, a fair amount of people don't care about it.
HA! Not really.

I for one will pirate everything that is on steam and not yet available for GOG.

As for DRM, mostly youngsters don't care about DRM, because they simply know nothing about. We, the old farts, know full well what SecuROM is/was, and how bad it is/was.
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satoru: Steamworks has literally ONE function, CEG that operates as DRM

Something that literally 99% of developers don't use. Ergo 99% of games on Steam could easily be DRM free since again NO ONE uses CEG.
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rtcvb32: And yet somehow 80%+ of the games i tried without the steam.exe being present somehow refused to run work or play. (and one that i got to work went back to 'demo' mode)

I don't know about you, but for a feature not used, a lot of my games (on steam) are fucked up.
https://twitter.com/icculus/status/471441666419990528?lang=en

Steamworks isn't DRM

It simply requires education to ensure devs dont use steamworks this way

99% of devs are simply doing this by mistake. This is EASILY CORRECTABLE via actual information.

But touting 'steam is DRM' is not going to change how devs use the Steamworks API. They won't change their minds because you are giving them bad information. Why not instead give them good information. Information that will get more DRM free games, in general.
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CalebDhew: I think people will continue to support Steam because of their larger Library of games, not to mention that a large amount of developers release on steam. As for DRM, a fair amount of people don't care about it.
There yee gan. This simply post sums it up. Tee rah
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Breja: And...? Look, I get it that moobot is quite annoying and has all the rhetoric skill of a moose with a severe head injury, but your reply is basically like trying to prove that smoking is healthy because a lot of people do it.

If anything, the only thing this exchange proves is that this thread has ran its course and should be left in peace to be necroed in a couple of years by a spammer.
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Haggis63: The thing that annoys me is when a poster just comes out with rubbish off the top of their head, with zero thought behind it. Back it with facts and figures. Where else can you buy and own games of a physical DVD/CD and run them? They don't exist today due to piracy. Every disc sold runs steam, origin, ubi etc and downloads the main game. You can't just come out with utter rubbish and say that 'steam is the enemy of gamers'.. You may as well just BIN gaming then!!..i can't believe you come out with such a statement about smoking...that's just pure silly... If this was 20years back, yes! you would have a moot point. But it's not and DRM is everywhere. Bearing in mind i've bought and owned everything from Painshop Pro when it was a dsic and not a license to buy monthly/yearly.

If that's how you both feel, it's time to bin gaming.. seriously. Consoles, everything is a digital DRM license.
The fact that you believe piracy caused any of this shows how incredibly naive you are and how you've sucked up the dishonesty that crooked developers and greedy publishers have spewed.

DRM is first and foremost a way of controlling what content goes where and who can access it. It hasn't stopped piracy at all. If anything, DRM has allowed Steam to be the biggest name in digital distribution which has caused those greedy sods to nickle and dime every game they ever made (except their earlier titles) and raise game prices more and more. Steam sales or not, other platforms have sales too. Piracy still exists though and always will.
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CalebDhew: I think people will continue to support Steam because of their larger Library of games, not to mention that a large amount of developers release on steam. As for DRM, a fair amount of people don't care about it.
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falloutttt: HA! Not really.

I for one will pirate everything that is on steam and not yet available for GOG.

As for DRM, mostly youngsters don't care about DRM, because they simply know nothing about. We, the old farts, know full well what SecuROM is/was, and how bad it is/was.
I wouldn't pirate a game first of all. True, mostly older folks know the complications of DRM, securom was horrible! I think at the end of the day, developers that agressively push DRM don't trust their customers and I feel that distances one from those devs imo. The truth is that there will always be pirates and DRM actually encourages scene releases, because they view new DRM as a challenge to crack.
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rtcvb32: And yet somehow 80%+ of the games i tried without the steam.exe being present somehow refused to run work or play. (and one that i got to work went back to 'demo' mode)

I don't know about you, but for a feature not used, a lot of my games (on steam) are fucked up.
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satoru: https://twitter.com/icculus/status/471441666419990528?lang=en

Steamworks isn't DRM

It simply requires education to ensure devs dont use steamworks this way

99% of devs are simply doing this by mistake. This is EASILY CORRECTABLE via actual information.

But touting 'steam is DRM' is not going to change how devs use the Steamworks API. They won't change their minds because you are giving them bad information. Why not instead give them good information. Information that will get more DRM free games, in general.
Steam is DRM.
https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/features/drm


The Steam DRM wrapper is an important part of Steam platform because it verifies game ownership and ensures that Steamworks features work properly by launching Steam before launching the game.

The Steam DRM wrapper by itself is not is not a anti-piracy solution. The Steam DRM wrapper protects against extremely casual piracy (i.e. copying all game files to another computer) and has some obfuscation, but it is easily removed by a motivated attacker.

We suggest enhancing the value of legitimate copies of your game by using Steamworks features which won't work on non-legitimate copies (e.g. online multiplayer, achievements, leaderboards, trading cards, etc.).

See Using the Steam Wrapper with Other DRM for more information on combining the Steam DRM wrapper with other DRM or anti-tampering solutions.
Post edited March 05, 2019 by Sebatrox
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Sebatrox: We suggest enhancing the value of legitimate copies of your game by using Steamworks features which won't work on non-legitimate copies (e.g. online multiplayer, achievements, leaderboards, trading cards, etc.).
Something just occurred to me.

This line ceases to be true when you consider that emulators for Steam exist. These emulators can pretty much pretend to be Steam, and enable most of these features, yes, ONLINE MULTIPLAYER included.

The kicker? When a game doesn't work without Steam open, chances are a Steam emulator will run it just fine. That's because the emulator just pretends it's the Steam client, with a user logged in and the user owning the game you're trying to run. If this is what a Steam emulator does, how the heck is Steam not DRM?

But then again, we'll keep pointing this out to that hardheaded Steam moderator, and he'll always dismiss it. Nothing much we can do about it I suppose.
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Uhh 24 pages ? Hmm i personally care for my games being up-to-date more than being DRM Free... I cannot count the number of outdated DRM Free installer i got over the years from fallen stores (Desura, indie game stand, shinyloot...) and little annoy me more than seeing them later released on Steam with me not having the access key despite "owning" the "drm free installer"...

Running a normally permanent internet connection like i assume most of digital entertainment customers in 2019, i don't mind nperiodic checks on my licence ownership, though welcome offline possibility and dislike "always online for single player games" (latest Hitman...)

Something i can praise Steam for though, as a customer is democratizing big seasonal sales and the built-in controller features that saved me a lot of time and headaches... Latest to date, a game not recognizing my 8bitdo controller as an x-one and i could not do anything with it, every mode had buttons working or not... I added the game to steam and it benefited from the "big picture" controller detection. So big props to that feature!

What i can praise GOG for is their... Good Old Games, that are my purpose for being and staying here, i don't have to care for outdated installers, if they don't get updates anymore and there are some exclusives with french translations that i dig (tex murphy's, toonstruck...)

I also rly liked the one world, one price policy that changed to 'faire price" for wallet funds, but now that is left out too...

Also GOG staff reading this, please finally try hard to catter for most voted games wishlist, and give me an option to block notifications for every galaxy achievments my friend list gets... -_-
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PookaMustard: But then again, we'll keep pointing this out to that hardheaded Steam moderator, and he'll always dismiss it. Nothing much we can do about it I suppose.
He's a troll.