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PookaMustard: So congrats, you pointed to one singular game that doesn't happen to require steam to launch. But then again, if you were to compare your steam library, the DRM'd games and the non-DRM'd, you'd end up looking at a vast majority being DRM'd.
But almost all games that you have on GOG, are also DRM-free on Steam.
From the classic GOG catalog, that is "good old" titles, I would guess 99% of those are also DRM-free on Steam.

Every game that uses ScummVM or DOSbox is for all practical purposes DRM-free, because they use an open source third party tool to run.

Yes there are lots of DRM stuff on Steam, but those games really aren't DRM-free anywhere, so there's only once choice: to not play them! Steam really is irrelevant in that equation, other than being a platform that enables DRM. If they didn't, someone else did. It's really publishers who are to blame.

You also must give Steam credit where it is due, at least for me their download speeds are twice as fast as GOG, so they really are doing something right to be the market leader too.

I really hate Steam client, but if you only use that as a download tool on an old computer, and then transfer the games to the real computer, it works nicely enough.
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DadJoke007: There are different nuances of hell, but for something to be classified as hell-free you shouldn't be required to visit hell in order to have your hell-free experience. That includes not checking in at the lobby to get the permission from Satan to get what's "yours".

DRM is bad, but it's understandable why some people buy games with some degrees of DRM even though it's bad. Steam is, like it or not, very convenient and affordable for the average schmuck. Gabe himself said that he sees Steam as a service, and as such, it's fantastic. On the other hand, the rights the customer gives up for that convenient aservice is horrible.

For DRM-free to really take off, if it ever does, the shit needs to hit the fan and people need to feel the consequenses of not really owning their games.
thats gonna happen with new consoles people not owning there games cos the latest xbox in development apparently has no disc drive meaning you get your games from the cloud, which would also mean that game businesses would go out of business unless they sold other stuff,i mean its already happening with PC's all games are digital now you cant walk into a games shop in town and pick up pc games, they only sell consoles stuff now
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falloutttt: DRM doesn't fight piracy. Piracy exist because of DRM.
No.
Regardless of the rest of your post, the above statement is false.

It's a clear case of egg and chicken, piracy predates ANY form of copy protection scheme.
Back in the very early days, you had basically two types of home games: cartridge based (i.e. Atari 2600) and tape based (i.e. VIC20/C64 and Zx81/Spectrum among others).
Neither of those implemented any measure of explicit copy protection/DRM, it just so happens that cloning cartridges was far from an obvious process for the average Joe, while duplicating a tape could be done even with your home stereo... people realized that, and just started doing it, without a second thought. (Hell, at first in my country there was no clear legislation in place for protecting digital copyright, so for a few years stores could SELL copied games with no repercussion.)

Then, and only then, it's when the developers started to put some form of protection into the software, with the codes taken from the manuals, exoteric 'LensLock' devices and whatnot...

Now, we can discuss if modern days DRM is more harmless to the consumer, is not effective, it's big corporate bullshit etc.... but the original "DRM" was born as a reaction to piracy, not the other way around, so at least don't try to push that distorted view
Post edited February 18, 2019 by Antaniserse
Clearly Steam is DRM because it's actual original purpose was to provide DRM for the Half-Life 2 release. In fact I've never entirely forgiven Steam for making me need it to play my HL2 that I'd just bought from a shop. So annoy gamers at your peril because we hold grudges forever. :D
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jjglvz: Clearly Steam is DRM because it's actual original purpose was to provide DRM for the Half-Life 2 release. In fact I've never entirely forgiven Steam for making me need it to play my HL2 that I'd just bought from a shop. So annoy gamers at your peril because we hold grudges forever. :D
fun fact - Half Life 2 is DRM free on Steam
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jjglvz: Clearly Steam is DRM because it's actual original purpose was to provide DRM for the Half-Life 2 release. In fact I've never entirely forgiven Steam for making me need it to play my HL2 that I'd just bought from a shop. So annoy gamers at your peril because we hold grudges forever. :D
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amok: fun fact - Half Life 2 is DRM free on Steam
I can confirm this.
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Antaniserse: It's a clear case of egg and chicken, piracy predates ANY form of copy protection scheme.
Back in the very early days, you had basically two types of home games: cartridge based (i.e. Atari 2600) and tape based (i.e. VIC20/C64 and Zx81/Spectrum among others).
Neither of those implemented any measure of explicit copy protection/DRM, it just so happens that cloning cartridges was far from an obvious process for the average Joe, while duplicating a tape could be done even with your home stereo... people realized that, and just started doing it, without a second thought. (Hell, at first in my country there was no clear legislation in place for protecting digital copyright, so for a few years stores could SELL copied games with no repercussion.)

Then, and only then, it's when the developers started to put some form of protection into the software, with the codes taken from the manuals, exoteric 'LensLock' devices and whatnot...
Not that you are wrong about your main point, but both VIC20 and C64 had cartridge ports, although most software was delivered on cassettes and disks.

Also, very soon publishers started manufacture cassettes with so faint signal noise that it would most likely get lost in the process of deck-to-deck copying, meaning that the copy would be unreadable to the computer. As a side effect, even some of the legally purchased cassettes were unreadable. In turn to combat this problem, there were special hardware solutions, like Commodore Load-It.
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jjglvz: Clearly Steam is DRM because it's actual original purpose was to provide DRM for the Half-Life 2 release. In fact I've never entirely forgiven Steam for making me need it to play my HL2 that I'd just bought from a shop. So annoy gamers at your peril because we hold grudges forever. :D
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amok: fun fact - Half Life 2 is DRM free on Steam
Fun fact: he is not wrong. HL2 launched with Steam as a requirement. That the game is DRM-free now is irrelevant. For its original purpose and intention, it was born as DRM for the thing.
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amok: fun fact - Half Life 2 is DRM free on Steam
It is now after all these years. It sure wasn't back in 2004. Hence jjglvz is correct in pointing out Steam's origin was indeed as a glorified "loader" for HL2 long before all the feature & social stuff were added. Half Life: Source (the buggier version) is also now 'DRM-Free' on Steam, but the original HL isn't. Portal 1 is also 'DRM-Free' there, but Portal 2 isn't and was in fact one of the first Valve games used to showcase CEG (Steam's second layer of DRM introduced in 2009).
Post edited February 18, 2019 by AB2012
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amok: fun fact - Half Life 2 is DRM free on Steam
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tinyE: I can confirm this.
But too late, TOO LATE. Steam is forever dead to me. And some devs, like Sports Interactive, specifically moved their franchises to Steam for the DRM function.

But I have tons of games there so I don't want them to die so YAY STEAM.
In response to PixelBoy (can't send a quoted message for some GOG reason).
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PixelBoy: But almost all games that you have on GOG, are also DRM-free on Steam.
From the classic GOG catalog, that is "good old" titles, I would guess 99% of those are also DRM-free on Steam.
The point I was making originally was that a vast majority of games are DRM'd. And yet there's a little problem here...

> Every game that uses ScummVM or DOSbox is for all practical purposes DRM-free, because they use an open source third party tool to run.

On Origin, Dosbox games are DRM'd. I am not kidding, I checked this myself with SimCity 2000 there. So just because they use either utility, doesn't really mean it's free of DRM.

> Yes there are lots of DRM stuff on Steam, but those games really aren't DRM-free anywhere, so there's only once choice: to not play them! Steam really is irrelevant in that equation, other than being a platform that enables DRM. If they didn't, someone else did. It's really publishers who are to blame.

Steam is to be blamed for enabling DRM, and in turn, having a hands off approach when it comes to it, letting publishers do as they please, even if it meant towers of the stuff on top of one game. Were it not for it, the client with internet reliance model would've been harder to reach from a developing standpoint and probably even hated today from a player standpoint.

Finally went through, ugh.
Post edited February 18, 2019 by PookaMustard
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tinyE: I can confirm this.
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jjglvz: But too late, TOO LATE. Steam is forever dead to me. And some devs, like Sports Interactive, specifically moved their franchises to Steam for the DRM function.

But I have tons of games there so I don't want them to die so YAY STEAM.
Calm down friend. :D

Relax.
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tinyE: Calm down friend. :D

Relax.
MAKE ME
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tinyE: Calm down friend. :D

Relax.
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jjglvz: MAKE ME
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PookaMustard: On Origin, Dosbox games are DRM'd. I am not kidding, I checked this myself with SimCity 2000 there. So just because they use either utility, doesn't really mean it's free of DRM.
Its not. I've just tried it and it runs fine without Origin.