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oldschool: Thanks for the heads-up. I finally broke down and bought them. Although, I wish there was some type of service for the Commodore Amiga and C-64 as they were vastly superior to the PC counterpart, especially in the sound department.
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wizisi2k: While there isn't from GOG, you can search for amiga (and commodore-64) forever and spend $40 on the 2017 version which gives you free updates for a year (might be $40 total for the edition with 100 games at this point in a bundle due to holidays-I dunno). For the games, you'd have to go hunting online...
I have been using Cloantos' Amiga forever for years, but thank you for bring up Amiga forever, I would like some official Amiga versions of some of the games here with support from the original publishers.
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wizisi2k: While there isn't from GOG, you can search for amiga (and commodore-64) forever and spend $40 on the 2017 version which gives you free updates for a year (might be $40 total for the edition with 100 games at this point in a bundle due to holidays-I dunno). For the games, you'd have to go hunting online...
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oldschool: I have been using Cloantos' Amiga forever for years, but thank you for bring up Amiga forever, I would like some official Amiga versions of some of the games here with support from the original publishers.
for amiga versions, they'd probably have to do what night dive has done with System Shock for many titles. Remember, several games had a multi-lingual version AND a German version plus were meant for PAL regions with few US releases. And who is not to say what is occurring now with Star Control would not happen with those games after resale has started?
Ah, there's a new blog post explaining a bit about the situation that had previously confused me:

https://dogarandkazon.squarespace.com/blog/2017/12/4/star-control-i-ii-and-iii-arent-for-sale-on-gogcom-any-more-how-come

So when the games originally appeared here it was Atari who put them here. As it turns out, the only reason they stayed was because a mutual agreement was reached between Fred and Paul (owners of the games), Atari (owners of the name) and GOG.

The name transferred to Starcock a few years ago, who seem to be under the impression they own the games and can do what they want including selling the games elsewhere without permission and bundling them with their new but unrelated game. I'm guessing the weird name changes that happened here a while ago are part of the messing around that Starcock has been doing.

Before there were some things I didn't understand about the situation and I wasn't quite sure what Starcock had done wrong.
Post edited December 05, 2017 by SirPrimalform
Thanks for the heads up
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SirPrimalform: Ah, there's a new blog post explaining a bit about the situation that had previously confused me:

https://dogarandkazon.squarespace.com/blog/2017/12/4/star-control-i-ii-and-iii-arent-for-sale-on-gogcom-any-more-how-come

So when the games originally appeared here it was Atari who put them here. As it turns out, the only reason they stayed was because a mutual agreement was reached between Fred and Paul (owners of the games), Atari (owners of the name) and GOG.

The name transferred to Starcock a few years ago, who seem to be under the impression they own the games and can do what they want including selling the games elsewhere without permission and bundling them with their new but unrelated game. I'm guessing the weird name changes that happened here a while ago are part of the messing around that Starcock has been doing.

Before there were some things I didn't understand about the situation and I wasn't quite sure what Starcock had done wrong.
here's the updated response from Stardock:
Paul and Fred continue to make unsubstantiated claims regarding the DOS-based Star Control games. If they have any documentation to provide evidence to their assertions, we have yet to see them.

Stardock, by contrast, possesses a perpetual, exclusive, worldwide licensing and sale agreement that was explicitly transferred to us by Atari who in turn acquired it from Accolade that has Paul Reiche's signature along with a signed distribution agreement between Atari and GOG for the DOS Star Control games.

The tone of their blog posts is similar to the kind of correspondence they had with us since the announcement of their Ur-Quan Masters successor, vague, full of demands and without any documentation.

With all due respect to Paul and Fred, they really should talk to competent legal counsel instead of making blog posts.

This is going downhill fast. The only ones who will win in this case ARE lawyers.
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wizisi2k: This is going downhill fast. The only ones who will win in this case ARE lawyers.
How peculiar. According to Fred and Paul, Atari went "Whoops!" when it was pointed out they only owned the name. The fact that Fred and Paul were the ones able to pull the games from GOG does seem to bear out their claim of ownership. I really want them to be right.
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wizisi2k: This is going downhill fast. The only ones who will win in this case ARE lawyers.
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SirPrimalform: How peculiar. According to Fred and Paul, Atari went "Whoops!" when it was pointed out they only owned the name. The fact that Fred and Paul were the ones able to pull the games from GOG does seem to bear out their claim of ownership. I really want them to be right.
Paul and Fred have provided no documentation whatsoever, not even an email, to back up their claim regarding Atari. If they had, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

However, upon learning that Paul and Fred were the ones who set up the agreement with GOG, we informed them that they needed to take it down as they do not, and have never had the right, to sell or distribute Accolade (and now Stardock) Star Control games. We informed GOG of this change last week.

We have a great deal of respect for Paul and Fred as the designers of Star Control I and II. However, until they can back up their claims that the IP they licensed for Star Control I and II has actually expired with some sort of documentation we are not inclined to discontinue their sale and distribution as long as the fan community supports this.

With any luck, the Star Control titles will be transferred to the existing Stardock GOG distribution agreement and sales will continue. Paul and Fred will continue to receive royalties, as they have for the past several years, for the sales and distribution of the classic Star Control games.

For those not interested in the original DOS experience, there is the amazing Ur-Quan Masters project which is free.

Hope this helps.

-brad wardell (Stardock)
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draginol: . . .
Hello Brad. Good to see you here trying to clear up this unfortunate mess. Best of luck to all the parties involved and I hope it can be all worked out before it goes to court.

If this does go to court I don't forsee any real winners coming out of it :(
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draginol: . . .
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tremere110: Hello Brad. Good to see you here trying to clear up this unfortunate mess. Best of luck to all the parties involved and I hope it can be all worked out before it goes to court.

If this does go to court I don't forsee any real winners coming out of it :(
Thanks.

First, is there anyone here who does NOT want to see a continuation of the Ur-Quan Masters? I can tell you, for a fact, that Stardock has done nothing whatsoever to try to prevent the development of it other than encourage it and offer to permanently release them from the IP restrictions they signed as long as we get indemnified in the unlikely event other IP holders of what made up Star Control I/II come forward and object.

Secondly, Is there anyone here who disagrees with me that Stardock would be the wrong people to try to mess with the classic series aliens and lore? Especially if you knew, years before, that the original creators of that universe intended to return to it?

Even if Paul and Fred hadn't asked us not to use the classic aliens we wouldn't have used them beyond, at most, a cameo. People who claim otherwise haven't thought it through. If we tried to retell Star Control II we'd get pushback over Ur-Quan Masters. We didn't consider trying to continue what happened after Star Control III because it would alienate new players. If you tried to do something all new with those characters, we would have been rightly criticized for stepping on Paul and Fred's legacy.

So the solution was to treat Star Control as a multiverse where Star Control: The Ur-Quan Masters (I/II) was in a different universe from Star Control III (The Kessari Quadrant). This also allowed us to create Star Control: Origins as a new game with a new setting and a new set of characters.

We, Stardock, definitely do want to see the classic Star Control games continued to be sold. If people don't want them, they don't buy them. If they do buy them, then Paul and Fred can continue to receive royalties.

But we do hope that most people understand that Paul and Fred were never the publishers of the Star Control games. Accolade/Atari/Stardock are.

Thus, upon recently finding out that the actual agreement was between Paul/Fred and GOG we contacted Paul and Fred to contacted GOG to remove the titles and, as GOG can verify, we contacted GOG to terminate that agreement so that the games can be sold as part of the existing Stardock/GOG agreement.

Now, if GOG users don't want the games available, that's a different story. Or, alternatively, if Paul and Fred can produce some sort of documentation, even an email, that acknowledges that Atari (and by inference Stardock) doesn't have the right to sell the classic series then we will discontinue them. So far, we've received nothing.

We have a lot of games in a lot of channels. And it's never a dull moment. The Star Control classic games, as you can imagine, are not huge sellers. So they don't get the kind of attention they probably deserve. But do intend to keep them available as long as we have the right to do so (which doesn't end on someone's whim) and the fanbase want it.
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tremere110: Hello Brad. Good to see you here trying to clear up this unfortunate mess. Best of luck to all the parties involved and I hope it can be all worked out before it goes to court.

If this does go to court I don't forsee any real winners coming out of it :(
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draginol: Thanks.

First, is there anyone here who does NOT want to see a continuation of the Ur-Quan Masters? I can tell you, for a fact, that Stardock has done nothing whatsoever to try to prevent the development of it other than encourage it and offer to permanently release them from the IP restrictions they signed as long as we get indemnified in the unlikely event other IP holders of what made up Star Control I/II come forward and object.

Secondly, Is there anyone here who disagrees with me that Stardock would be the wrong people to try to mess with the classic series aliens and lore? Especially if you knew, years before, that the original creators of that universe intended to return to it?

Even if Paul and Fred hadn't asked us not to use the classic aliens we wouldn't have used them beyond, at most, a cameo. People who claim otherwise haven't thought it through. If we tried to retell Star Control II we'd get pushback over Ur-Quan Masters. We didn't consider trying to continue what happened after Star Control III because it would alienate new players. If you tried to do something all new with those characters, we would have been rightly criticized for stepping on Paul and Fred's legacy.

So the solution was to treat Star Control as a multiverse where Star Control: The Ur-Quan Masters (I/II) was in a different universe from Star Control III (The Kessari Quadrant). This also allowed us to create Star Control: Origins as a new game with a new setting and a new set of characters.

We, Stardock, definitely do want to see the classic Star Control games continued to be sold. If people don't want them, they don't buy them. If they do buy them, then Paul and Fred can continue to receive royalties.

But we do hope that most people understand that Paul and Fred were never the publishers of the Star Control games. Accolade/Atari/Stardock are.

Thus, upon recently finding out that the actual agreement was between Paul/Fred and GOG we contacted Paul and Fred to contacted GOG to remove the titles and, as GOG can verify, we contacted GOG to terminate that agreement so that the games can be sold as part of the existing Stardock/GOG agreement.

Now, if GOG users don't want the games available, that's a different story. Or, alternatively, if Paul and Fred can produce some sort of documentation, even an email, that acknowledges that Atari (and by inference Stardock) doesn't have the right to sell the classic series then we will discontinue them. So far, we've received nothing.

We have a lot of games in a lot of channels. And it's never a dull moment. The Star Control classic games, as you can imagine, are not huge sellers. So they don't get the kind of attention they probably deserve. But do intend to keep them available as long as we have the right to do so (which doesn't end on someone's whim) and the fanbase want it.
damn
I definitely like what I hear with the new Star Control, especially with the ability to create your own ship in a way similar to GalCiv.
This is looking so bad. Especially since, as far as I can tell, nobody has any ill will towards the other, and this is just a big misunderstanding.

I hope this ends up getting settled amicably. A conversation over the phone or in person should make things much clearer. E-mails are just too unreliable when spirits are heated.

Edit: There's so much hate towards Stardock. It seems people are venting over their DLC policies and past experience with their other software. My experience with them is that they make/publish great strategy games abd I love them for that.
Post edited December 05, 2017 by MadalinStroe
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oldschool: I have been using Cloantos' Amiga forever for years, but thank you for bring up Amiga forever, I would like some official Amiga versions of some of the games here with support from the original publishers.
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wizisi2k: for amiga versions, they'd probably have to do what night dive has done with System Shock for many titles. Remember, several games had a multi-lingual version AND a German version plus were meant for PAL regions with few US releases. And who is not to say what is occurring now with Star Control would not happen with those games after resale has started?
I really didn't consider all that, It would be a logistical nightmare for all involved. If your interested in Whdload consider googling Killer Gorilla.

Yes, I was one of those hippy freaks that picked up an Amiga 500 back in the day. Although the Amiga can be fully emulated it still is missing something. I miss my old Miggy.
Post edited December 05, 2017 by oldschool
Whooof...managed to pick Star Control 3 collection complete
Post edited December 05, 2017 by tburger
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tburger: Whooof...managed to pick Star Control 3 collection complete
Congrats,and just in time ;).Cheers