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RWarehall: You seem to be under some illusion that the half dozen people crying about the game right now are enough sales to make this worthwhile to sell here
I was responding to your idea that this game is unadvertised and low-selling by pointing out that this thread is quite clearly indicative that people are talking about this game and interested in this game being available here, on this site. One wonders if you argued so vociferously against other games, with lower wishlist counts, that did make it here. Also poor reviews or people badmouthing something does not necessarily mean lack of interest...it can end up generating new interest actually in some cases...controversy sells. I would wager quite a few Opus Magnum buyers did not know of the game initially, but became aware of it due to the controversy of it being initially rejected.
Just a friendly reminder: This game now has more votes on the wishlist than Opus Magnum had when gog caved in and released it despite their original rejection.
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paladin181: They can't do this. Legally they are required to offer a refund. However, they will not refund a game that works. They can't reliably track play time on games due to DRM-Free. So this fails right out of the blocks. Unless you want to go all-in and suggest they drop DRM-free gaming. Doubling down on bad arguments won't do you much good here though.
Other htan basically Australia and NewZeland basically no store is legally obligated to provide you a refund

The EU laws ENFORCE the fact that your right of refusal expires the nano-second teh game hits your library. Period. Once the game shows up in your library, you have no right to a refund legally under EU law. Steam and GOG offer refunds OUTSIDE of the legal requirements, but they are not legally obligated to their voluntary refund policy. You click "buy" and you immediately give up your right of refusal on the game, and this is enshrined in EU law.
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satoru: Other htan basically Australia and NewZeland basically no store is legally obligated to provide you a refund

The EU laws ENFORCE the fact that your right of refusal expires the nano-second teh game hits your library. Period. Once the game shows up in your library, you have no right to a refund legally under EU law. Steam and GOG offer refunds OUTSIDE of the legal requirements, but they are not legally obligated to their voluntary refund policy. You click "buy" and you immediately give up your right of refusal on the game, and this is enshrined in EU law.
Who said anything about the EU...? Do you always pick the weirdest angle from which to attack a problem..?
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fronzelneekburm: Just a friendly reminder: This game now has more votes on the wishlist than Opus Magnum had when gog caved in and released it despite their original rejection.
Given how much Cleve is now really really mad at GOG, there is literally a snowballs chance in hell he will release it on GOG.

Have you ever seen Cleve swallow his ego? Yeah that's never going to happen

Its on itch.io and pretty much Cleve is washing his hands of GOG.
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satoru: Other htan basically Australia and NewZeland basically no store is legally obligated to provide you a refund

The EU laws ENFORCE the fact that your right of refusal expires the nano-second teh game hits your library. Period. Once the game shows up in your library, you have no right to a refund legally under EU law. Steam and GOG offer refunds OUTSIDE of the legal requirements, but they are not legally obligated to their voluntary refund policy. You click "buy" and you immediately give up your right of refusal on the game, and this is enshrined in EU law.
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paladin181: Who said anything about the EU...? Do you always pick the weirdest angle from which to attack a problem..?
Again if you're talking 'legally' there's no other place

North america has no legal framework requiring refunds

EU has some but again most are grossly mis-informed about that

Only Australia and NZ have that

You claimed that they are 'legally obligated' to provide refunds. When that's obviously not the case for 99.999% of the world
Post edited March 01, 2019 by satoru
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satoru: Basically GOG needs to

1) Move to 'minimal' curation policy. Basically just "is this game not total garbage"
2) get rid of in-house support of games. Do what everyone else does, and refer them to the developers for support
3) reduce refund window - the 30 day window is entirely based on their tech support, costs too much money, get rid of it. Note this doesnt mean 'get rid of all support'. You still need support for payment issues and account stuff. But get rid of the '3rd party game tech support' side of it. Do what everyone else does, 14 day 2 hour playtime window.

You've now dramatically reduced operating costs, and reduced the incremental cost of adding a particular game. Now you can have more 'niche' games on GOG.
I've been with you on most of your posts on this page, but I've got to disagree strongly here with points 2 and 3.

2. GOG sells a large number of games for which the developer doesn't exist any more. GOG's in house support of these games is the only reason the store was able to exist jn the beginning.

3. A < two hour play time based refund system cannot work if GOG is to remain DRM-free.
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satoru: Do what everyone else does, 14 day 2 hour playtime window.
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dtgreene: How do you propose to enforce the 2 hour rule? (Remember, because GOG is DRM-free, there's no way for GOG to prevent you from playing the game more after getting a refund, and it's possible that the game might be played on an air-gapped computer, so there'd be no way for GOG to know how long that game has been played.)
Make galaxy mandatory
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fronzelneekburm: Just a friendly reminder: This game now has more votes on the wishlist than Opus Magnum had when gog caved in and released it despite their original rejection.
And how many of those came BEFORE people knew how bad the game was? Based solely on it being a Wizardry 7 throwback by a known developer...

Why is it, the same 6 people cherry-pick this single factor in its favor over the numerous other factors which are more important?

All this publicity, yet sales really haven't improved on Steam either...not a compelling case...
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satoru: [...]

How is Steam going to 'undercut' GOG when the developer has the overwhelming control over pricing, sales and sale prices. YOu seem to not even understand the utter basics of how pricing on the Steam store works, and are literally just making stuff up
The developer gets more raw number of sales from Steam. The developer is incentivized to sell the game very cheaply on Steam, yet not as cheaply on GOG. The developer wouldn't really care about a higher percentage of GOG users buying the game compared to Steam users, unless it is a niche game geared more towards the tastes of GOG users. Forgive me for not spelling out exactly who lowers the price...the fact remains that games at large will consistently get vastly cheaper on Steam than they will on GOG.

I will have to sift through those links of yours at a later point (sorry, short on time right now).

As for ad hominem/moderation, the links were posted in the other topic. From what I understand you are a moderator of some kind..I do not know the exact hierarchy nor is it really relevant. You seem to have a clear pro-Steam bias which is why I viewed you as trolling in another topic (you have been reasonable in other places though). As another user pointed out, some of your posts read as being from a "Steam-bot". Now, you may well call me a "GOG-bot" for my positions...but, I'd remind you we are on GOG, not Steam.
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SirPrimalform: I've been with you on most of your posts on this page, but I've got to disagree strongly here with points 2 and 3.

2. GOG sells a large number of games for which the developer doesn't exist any more. GOG's in house support of these games is the only reason the store was able to exist jn the beginning.
Functionally at this point it costs them more money to offer this service than it brings in revenue.

Maybe best case you make a cut off for some games, but for every new game coming in you dump tech support.
3. A < two hour play time based refund system cannot work if GOG is to remain DRM-free.
make Galaxy mandatory. They're gonna have to make hard decisions. They already back tracked on fair pricing. Dont think nothing is off the table.

They might go with an 'honor' system, but that's probably going to last as long as their Witcher 3 gifting program did before it got abused into oblivion.
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dtgreene: How do you propose to enforce the 2 hour rule? (Remember, because GOG is DRM-free, there's no way for GOG to prevent you from playing the game more after getting a refund, and it's possible that the game might be played on an air-gapped computer, so there'd be no way for GOG to know how long that game has been played.)
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satoru: Make galaxy mandatory
That would alienate a huge portion of GOG's user base, and would result in this store losing its niche, at which point it would have no reason to continue existing.

Also, Galaxy is not available for Linux, so requiring it there would not be reasonable.

(Remember, the whole reason many people use GOG is the lack of DRM; requiring a network connection to launch the game would get rid of that reason, at which point there's no point in choosing GOG over that other store.)

Edit: Also, note that on GOG's Community Wishlist, there is a request for the site to remain DRM-free that has nearly 50,000 votes; the only wishes with more votes are a thanks to GOG, a wish for the Diablo series (a very famous series of semi-old computer games), and the Mechwarrior series (which I actually haven't heard of). Plus, this particular wish keeps getting more votes each weak, routinelty showing up on the weekly highlights.
Post edited March 01, 2019 by dtgreene
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dtgreene: How do you propose to enforce the 2 hour rule? (Remember, because GOG is DRM-free, there's no way for GOG to prevent you from playing the game more after getting a refund, and it's possible that the game might be played on an air-gapped computer, so there'd be no way for GOG to know how long that game has been played.)
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satoru: Make galaxy mandatory
Face and palm in loving embrace.
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RWarehall: And how many of those came BEFORE people knew how bad the game was? Based solely on it being a Wizardry 7 throwback by a known developer...

Why is it, the same 6 people cherry-pick this single factor in its favor over the numerous other factors which are more important?

All this publicity, yet sales really haven't improved on Steam either...not a compelling case...
Are you fucking serious?

What is YOUR end goal in keeping the game OFF the platform, dude?
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rjbuffchix: The developer gets more raw number of sales from Steam. The developer is incentivized to sell the game very cheaply on Steam, yet not as cheaply on GOG.
So before you were claiming "Steam was undercutting GOG"

Now that I pointed out Steam doesnt set pricing, now magically its the 'developers' that are doing that

Welcome to moving the goalpost.
Forgive me for not spelling out exactly who lowers the price...the fact remains that games at large will consistently get vastly cheaper on Steam than they will on GOG.
Again this kind of 'lets just make stuff up' is kinda endemic in your posts.

Other htan literally a handful of exceptions like maybe the Kings Quest packages, there's nothing on Steam that is magically cheaper than on GOG. Since by your bizarro land logic a dev would be 'incentivised' to make a game cheaper on steam. Lets take a look at the best stellers on steam right now

- Dawn of Man $21.24 USD on both sites a new release today
- Throne Breaker - 29.99 USD on both
- My Time at Portia - 29.99 usd on both
- Overcooked Gourmet Edition - $20.00 USD on both
- Ape out - $14.99 on boht - new release

So again all these games that you 'claim' would be magically incentivised to make the game cheaper on steam.... Are not cheaper on steam at all. So again you're just literally making stuff up when all the data available literally 100% contradicts everything you claim.
As for ad hominem/moderation, the links were posted in the other topic From what I understand you are a moderator of some kind..I do not know the exact hierarchy nor is it really relevant.
"SOrry I made an ad hominem attack, didn't verify the claims, and have no idea what kinds of moderators they are but hey I'm still right!"

Welcome to "intellectual Dishonestly"
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fronzelneekburm: Are you fucking serious?

What is YOUR end goal in keeping the game OFF the platform, dude?
Are you serious?
The game completely sucks! Watch any Youtube video. Let's take everything wrong about old games and old UIs and make them worse. On top of that, the developer is batshit crazy. How about keeping it off the platform because keeping it off is good for GoG. The game won't sell and will lose money and the developer is a loose cannon. I'd like GoG to stick around for awhile...