Okay I voted yes. Lifts voting record combined with Joe's misleading post yesterday makes Lift a much better bet than Joe right now despite Joe's pages of text.
Okay after replying to Joe below, noting his far greater participation this game and thinking about his question in his prior post 'is Hitler unelectable' it made me wonder, is Joe projecting? Is he Hitler? Worryingly though, it'd make it quite likely that ZFR would be Fascist. I mean Liberal ZFR could indeed randomly pick Hitler. Could my concern on day 1 have actually occurred? Why did ZFR kill Blotunga instead of the more likely Fascist Joe? Hmmmm
if we get FFF I think Joe should be executed because there's still a chance ZFR is fascist and Pooka is Liberal. If he is Joe is probably Hitler. If we get an L and Lift blocks your card, you should go for ZFR or Lift.
Lots of ifs and maybes there I realise.
Well, believing that Lifthrasil made a slip and I had a chance at convincing anybody gave me some hope which gave me energy. Here's what I've come up with whilst obsessing over the game for the past 18 hours.
INTERJECTION - I just looked up who pushed for Lifthrasil's chancellorship in the 1st government. Trentonlf initially thought to nominate flubbucket, then maybe carr (now pooka) or primalform, so I was excited to see where the Lifthrasil suggestion came from, as I was certain it would be a F. It was blotunga. Then I was the first one to support it. Doh.
Though, of course, that's interesting in itself, if anyone cares to apply reason to it.
Also looked into how Lift got elected as Pooka's chancellor. Pooka said Lift seemed a good candidate based on several people saying he was trustworthy. (https://www.gog.com/forum/general/secret_hitler_2_everybody_is_a_star/post404
), which is then supported by Blotunga (who adds that Pooka should hurry up and make the decision), mocked by flubbucket, shown non-support from Joe, ignored by everybody else, and Pooka makes the nomination. Again, not all that insightful and makes me wonder what the hell is going on with this game??
Huh. And before that blotunga was saying we should skip to lifthrasil's presidency and blotunga should be his chancellor. I agreed, saying that Lifthrasil/Blotunga or Lifthrasil/Trentonlf would make a good government. I think this is where Pooka got the idea that Lifthrasil was trustworthy from. Following that ZFR also recommends skipping Pooka and electing Lifthrasil. I can't see any other opinions on it, but please have a look yourselves. Then those three, Joe was the only one not to vote No.
Which doesn't help my cause at all.
Here's a table I've been working on.
PLEASE DON'T SIMPLY TAKE IT AT FACE VALUE.
Query, scrutinise, add to it. Is Joe L?
- passed L policy as chancellor in 1st government.
- has given people an L feeling for much of the game.
- changes his mind. Uncertain.
- trying to solve the game. Has asked people to help think things through and apply reason.
- No allies. Presidency voted down by all other players. Negligible support in debate.
- Pooka is claimed to be F. Little to suggest Joe & Pooka team.
- ZFR, Lifthrasil, RTCVB are claimed to be F. Little to suggest ZFR, Lifthrasil, RTCVB & Joe team. Is Lifthrasil L?
- passed two L policies. The second L policy under Trentonlf, and the 4th L policy under ZFR. Is Lifthrasil F?
- passed FF on his presidency (possibly had no choice)
- tended to be placed on the F side of Joe/Lifthrasil before ZFthrasil government.
- thinks the game can be easily won: Has No doubt.
- hasn't attempted to work out who Joe's teammates are.
- has support from others. Member of 4 governments, has ZFR's trust among others.
- when questioned whether he had suspicion about ZFR, claimed "Well, a bit, of course, since I don't know his allegiance for sure." (post 1204) - doesn't sit right with me when a drunken four-year-old could have seen that Joe and ZFR are not on a scumteam. Did go on to say "But still I think that ZFR is liberal and that he indeed has a good enough reason. I just would like to know which that is. Hence my question." but the initial statement is still interesting. If he had said "no, thinking about it, I don't really have suspicions; there's no way ZFR can be F, but it's a strange thing to do" or "it seems impossible but I'm wondering if I'm being set-up" I would understand. As it is the opening statement is the sort of thing a liberal should say on paper. Is Joe F?
- proclaimed F by lifthrasil after investigation.
- picked as ZFR's chancellor in first government without discussion.
- didn't support the ZFthrasil government which passed the 4th L
- ZFR claims his irrational and emotionally charged appeal against ZFthrasil government only makes sense as F.
- Shows support for flubbucket and blotunga.
- went against blotunga's plan to support Pooka's presidency: Pooka is now claimed to be F by ZFR.
- made it look like lifthrasil had claimed to know blotunga was L, when lifthrasil had actually said "if blotunga was L then..."
Do those early game actions make you think Blotunga and/or Trent is scum? And Pooka is Liberal?
All of this analysis is based on the fact no player has backed you. Which could be because you are Liberal so your teammates have no idea of your alignment. However there are Mafia Strategies called 'Distancing' and 'Busing'. So if you were Fascist your teammate doesn't obviously want to support you. If you are exposed they definitely don't want to support you because it reveals their alignment. So they then 'Bus you'. Which means if you are Scum they may even have a fascist or 2 building their own profile by ganging up on you.
This level of re-reading and analysis does make me wonder if you are Liberal or a Desperate Hitler? You haven't made this level of effort in past games.