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A shattered mind cuts deeper.

<span class="bold">Sundered</span>, a terrifying dash into the heart of darkness and insanity is now available, DRM-free on GOG.com with a 10% launch discount.

Horrible things skitter and slither in the cavernous depths, waiting to swallow you whole or just suck out any remnants of your soul. The parts you haven't yet surrendered, anyway. Because when things get scary, you will be tempted to channel corrupted powers against the massive monstrosities standing in your way, at the cost of your humanity. Can you resist their dark embrace?

The 10% discount will last until August 4, 1PM UTC.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/IcvaX7Rez8s
Post edited July 28, 2017 by maladr0Id
No soundtrack sold seperately? Could you only get it with the preorder?
Seems like it.
It's only MP3s anyway.
GOG, why do you call this a roguelike? Does this game have *anything* in common with rogue? Sure doesn't look like it.
Hmm .

http://steamcommunity.com/id/MrWoodenSheep/recommended/535480/
Watched the video and read the review. It's a shame, Metroidvania-style games are one of my fav genre, and the artwork is amazing.

I don't mind the randomly generated rooms but they feel dull and killing the enemies is a snorefest. I hope in time the devs will improve this game, it has lots of potential but in the current state it will probably get boring very fast.
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tremere110: No soundtrack sold seperately? Could you only get it with the preorder?
Crap, I'd have preordered if I saw this.
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darktjm: GOG, why do you call this a roguelike?
I think they call it that because the gameplay is based on dying a lot, and then upgrading your character with currency that you collected before you died, and then repeatedly re-playing again through the same zones in which you already died.

I respect these devs a lot for the promotion when they gave away their game Jotun for free.

I like the art style in Sundered.

But I would have preferred if they made Sundered without any "procedurally generated levels."

As well, when I watch the reviews of Sundered, they seem to indicate that most the gameplay consists of trash mobs that swarm you constantly as they respawn infinitely. If that is so, then I could have done without that too. I would have preferred a static number of enemies, and once you kill them, then they stay dead and don't respawn.
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darktjm: GOG, why do you call this a roguelike?
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Ancient-Red-Dragon: I think they call it that because the gameplay is based on dying a lot, and then upgrading your character with currency that you collected before you died, and then repeatedly re-playing again through the same zones in which you already died.
...
But I would have preferred if they made Sundered without any "procedurally generated levels."
In other words, "permadeath" and random level generation, as I suspected. These two are neither necessary nor sufficient to make a game "roguelike". If they want to, they can call it that nonsensical "roguelite" term, but please, GOG and Thunder Lotus Games, stop watering down words that actually (used to) mean something. There are plenty of real roguelikes on GOG; you don't need to hijack a term for a few extra sales. I can't imagine there are that many lovers of rougelikes out there to make that worthwhile.

To repeat what I said in the Tangledeep announcement (which, ironically, is an actual roguelike, so it didn't really deserve my criticism): If your game has permadeath, say it has permadeath, and if it has randomly generated maps, say that (or procedurally if you want to pretend it isn't random, although even then you're lying, since it's possible to be procedurally generated without being random). Be concise, be accurate, and don't (ab)use words you don't understand.
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Ancient-Red-Dragon: I think they call it that because the gameplay is based on dying a lot, and then upgrading your character with currency that you collected before you died, and then repeatedly re-playing again through the same zones in which you already died.
...
But I would have preferred if they made Sundered without any "procedurally generated levels."
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darktjm: In other words, "permadeath" and random level generation, as I suspected. These two are neither necessary nor sufficient to make a game "roguelike". If they want to, they can call it that nonsensical "roguelite" term, but please, GOG and Thunder Lotus Games, stop watering down words that actually (used to) mean something. There are plenty of real roguelikes on GOG; you don't need to hijack a term for a few extra sales. I can't imagine there are that many lovers of rougelikes out there to make that worthwhile.

To repeat what I said in the Tangledeep announcement (which, ironically, is an actual roguelike, so it didn't really deserve my criticism): If your game has permadeath, say it has permadeath, and if it has randomly generated maps, say that (or procedurally if you want to pretend it isn't random, although even then you're lying, since it's possible to be procedurally generated without being random). Be concise, be accurate, and don't (ab)use words you don't understand.
This reminds me of a concern I have had with another term: RPG. That term used to mean something when it comes to games, but nowadays people have been using that term for action games that just happen to borrow heavily from the RPG genre, without taking its core feature (namely, turn-based combat).

I would argue that you can't really have a roguelike without random level generation. Would you consider a game like DROD RPG to be a roguelike? I get the impression (haven't actually tried the game yet) that the game has a turn structure like a roguelike (you move, then the rest of the world moves), but the game is explicitly described as having no randomness, and there's even an Undo button (something that you would be unlikely to ever find in a true roguelike). So, is DROD RPG a roguelike?
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dtgreene: I would argue that you can't really have a roguelike without random level generation. Would you consider a game like DROD RPG to be a roguelike? I get the impression (haven't actually tried the game yet) that the game has a turn structure like a roguelike (you move, then the rest of the world moves), but the game is explicitly described as having no randomness, and there's even an Undo button (something that you would be unlikely to ever find in a true roguelike). So, is DROD RPG a roguelike?
I've never played DROD RPG (I've only played DROD), but while calling DROD a roguelike would be a severe stretch, I would probably say from the description that yes, DROD RPG is a roguelike. Even DROD is more roguelike than Sundered, or FTL, which is also called a "roguelike" (it even shows up in gentoo under games-roguelike <sigh>).

Games with fixed maps that are definitely roguelikes include Omega, tome (middle earth and a little maj eyal), Ivan, and some versions of Larn. Admittedly, all of those have some random maps (or randomness in their maps, such as population and ordering). The thieves' guild of Rampart, for example, may be in a different house every time, but the city still looks the same. These fixed maps were much bigger parts of their respective games than the town map of Moria, for example.

I'm sure many think permadeath is necessary as well, and, indeed, I can think of few roguelike games that don't do it. Nonetheless, back in the day, it was the one feature most avid players I knew ignored (by copying save games as needed), and therefore I don't think it's necessary. It's also a terrible feature for a game: Kobolds are uninteresting creatures, and making me fight them more often than anything else is just boring. Some people like that kind of thing, though. Personally I think it's little more than a way to justify the scoreboard, which is in virtually every roguelike as well, but not really useful in a single-player environment.

So, I guess I take back "neither necessary nor sufficient" and just say "not even remotely sufficient". If you want "roguelite" to mean "permadeath and random maps", that's fine I guess, even though I'll still cringe every time I see it, since the word itself is not properly defined anywhere (roguelike was defined at one time by comp.games.roguelike, but I don't know if they kept it consistent or if it's still around).

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dtgreene: This reminds me of a concern I have had with another term: RPG. That term used to mean something when it comes to games, but nowadays people have been using that term for action games that just happen to borrow heavily from the RPG genre, without taking its core feature (namely, turn-based combat).
I would argue that it's statistics-based abilities, rather than turn-based combat. Or, to put it another way, the ability to do something should rely on the *character* rather than the *player*. Most of the time, this translates into requiring turn-based combat, but pause-and-queue systems with reasonable character AI seem just as correct. I make the same argument at tabletop games where the DM expects *me* to actually haggle, when it's *my character* who has the high charisma and/or bartering skill (but nobody expects me to actually cast a spell or be able to hit someone with a weapon, go figure).
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darktjm: I'm sure many think permadeath is necessary as well, and, indeed, I can think of few roguelike games that don't do it.
Roguelike is permanent consequences, not just and not necessarily death. I'd even argue the emphasis on death largely hurts the genre. Traditional save-anywhere RPGs are not well-equipped to handle failure, because there are only so many developer-hours for content and you'd want to emphasize content that the largest number of players choose to see. Storylines that build upon failure are typically not a good return on investment. Roguelikes on the other hand can build on that... too bad they mostly do not. "Brutal and unforgiving"? Fuck that noise.

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darktjm: I make the same argument at tabletop games where the DM expects *me* to actually haggle, when it's *my character* who has the high charisma and/or bartering skill (but nobody expects me to actually cast a spell or be able to hit someone with a weapon, go figure).
Do you also skip combat because your character is an expert tactician and should know which abilities to use?
The issue with haggling isn't player skill vs character skill, it's that hagging and other mundane shit is fucking boring. No one wants to haggle for fun and especially no one wants to listen to others haggling.
I don't want to argue about what is or isn't roguelike or an rpg on the announcement thread for this game. Instead, I'll repeat my original point, slightly reworded and bolded for emphasis:

Sundered is not a roguelike. GOG, please remove "roguelike" from the Genre line of this game's description page.

And, to a lesser extent:

Developers, stop calling your games rougelike when they aren't. It makes you look like you've never even played or enjoyed a roguelike before (which is very probably true).
this freaking game is so good