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Get ready for a third-person stealth game where you play as an assassin with the power to control the shadows. Aragami 2 is now available for pre-order on GOG.COM along with a 15% discount that will last until the game’s premiere, set for 17th September 2021.

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fronzelneekburm: Just installed the latest gog build via Galaxy. Nope, no level editor and no way to play custom missions. Would've been a pleasant surprise to see these included in the gog version, but no.

There are currently 1767 missions listed on the Steam workshop, which is... quite a bit of added value.

There's an old saying in Tennessee - I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee - that says: Fool me once, shame on... shame on you. If fooled, you can't get fooled again.

So yeah, hard pass on Aragami 2. Sorry, guys.
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Truth007: Correct me if i'm wrong but arent those missions just mods? Not sure why workshop would be needed.
Apparently the level editor is linked to the Steam API and is pretty much integrated with in the Steam ECO system.
It is a shame and seems shortsighted to lock something like that to one store front. The patch notes on GOG and Steam confirm this.

On GOG 1.07 omits the level Editor where as on Steam it lists the editor with Steam Workshop support.

The developers also confirm it here.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/280160/discussions/0/1291816880501567735/

There are some mods for the game on Mod DB though.

The game looks good. Maybe this time around they will make the level editor store front independent.
Post edited August 11, 2021 by greyhat
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greyhat: Apparently the level editor is linked to the Steam API and is pretty much integrated with in the Steam ECO system.
It is a shame and seems shortsighted to lock something like that to one store front. The patch notes on GOG and Steam confirm this.
So the original game includes a level editor on Steam (thereby increasing its value and playability), but does not include a level editor on GOG, and the game is sold for the same price on both storefronts. That seems like a very good reason to me to not support the developer.
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greyhat: Apparently the level editor is linked to the Steam API and is pretty much integrated with in the Steam ECO system.
It is a shame and seems shortsighted to lock something like that to one store front. The patch notes on GOG and Steam confirm this.
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cmclout: So the original game includes a level editor on Steam (thereby increasing its value and playability), but does not include a level editor on GOG, and the game is sold for the same price on both storefronts. That seems like a very good reason to me to not support the developer.
Well, I am not going that far and saying dont ever buy games from these guys. I was just answering a question.

If the game is good and you like it buy it where it delivers what you appreciate the most I suppose. If you buy Aragami at Humble Bundle it has a stand alone DRM free download as well as a Steam key. So you can get both. I tend to think that they just made it and launched it on Steam first or got psyched about Steam Workshop integration as a good selling feature for the editor. And quite possibly did not realize that making the level editor directly tied and reliant on Steams API would be a problem later on.

There is no other logical reason why they would not have had it here otherwise. I doubt it was a personal choice to put it on GOG with out it. Though I am sure they could, with some more work, make the level editor work with out Steam and feel they probably should have done so from the beginning.

But I guess if you initially have Steam in mind when making a game Steam Workshop is a good selling feature.
Personally, for a game like this I dont have much interest in a level editor and cant think of many where I have used them beyond just a bit of tinkering around. However, I have talked with some developers when they asked about level editors and if it was worth it to design from the ground up with the game. My reply was absolutely. It is a good investment to increase the life of the game and having that tool set around can come in handy. Not just for the players but for the developer as well.

So, while I feel mixed about it not being on GOG I would most likely still buy the game here over Steam if I was at all interested in playing it. I dont consider this a reason necessarily to not support the developers or buy anything from them ever. But that is just me. :)
Post edited August 11, 2021 by greyhat
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Tarhiel: Are you sure?
Based on the changelog it should be present in the current build for some time.
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fronzelneekburm: Just installed the latest gog build via Galaxy. Nope, no level editor and no way to play custom missions. Would've been a pleasant surprise to see these included in the gog version, but no.

There are currently 1767 missions listed on the Steam workshop, which is... quite a bit of added value.

There's an old saying in Tennessee - I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee - that says: Fool me once, shame on... shame on you. If fooled, you can't get fooled again.

So yeah, hard pass on Aragami 2. Sorry, guys.
Ah, sorry about that.
Have no idea why the developers didn´t include it.
As stealth game nut I love this announcement. It's just a damn shame that stealth game youtubers like StealthGamerBR, Trzebiat, AJ Nguyen and others never pick this game to be mastered. They're too busy playing Hitman and Far Cry games.
Only one reason to offer pre-order. You're better off waiting until all the 'released to soon' bugs have been patched. It will be cheap then too.
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cmclout: So the original game includes a level editor on Steam (thereby increasing its value and playability), but does not include a level editor on GOG, and the game is sold for the same price on both storefronts. That seems like a very good reason to me to not support the developer.
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greyhat: Well, I am not going that far and saying dont ever buy games from these guys. I was just answering a question.

If the game is good and you like it buy it where it delivers what you appreciate the most I suppose. If you buy Aragami at Humble Bundle it has a stand alone DRM free download as well as a Steam key. So you can get both...
I understand you were just answering a question. I wasn't really directing my reply to you; rather, I was quoting your message to use your statement to make my point about the way the developer has treated GOG customers. I can understand and appreciate the reliance on the Steam API for the level editor, but if the GOG version has less functionality than the Steam version (which it does), then the price on GOG should be less than the price on Steam, especially when that lost functionality is significant (it may not be significant to some people, but it will be significant to others). As for me, I bought the game here in early 2018, and I'm not about to buy it again on Steam just for the user-created levels.
After being happy to play Aragami (1) under GNU/Linux - I am happy to not being able to play Aragami 2.
As the devs are no longer confident in providing good ports (see link below to get to the original post and
see if I get the meaning wrong yourself), it is a good sign to concentrate only on Windows:
as bugs are much more common here.
And GNU/Linux people are quite frequently working in IT business and know something about programming,
reliability and quality assurance ... so better not to get into contact with them.
So a win win for everyone - cough! ;)
For further details, see:
* https://www.gog.com/forum/aragami/any_news_about_the_missing_cutscenes_on_linux/post2
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JMB9: After being happy to play Aragami (1) under GNU/Linux - I am happy to not being able to play Aragami 2.
As the devs are no longer confident in providing good ports (see link below to get to the original post and
see if I get the meaning wrong yourself), it is a good sign to concentrate only on Windows:
as bugs are much more common here.
And GNU/Linux people are quite frequently working in IT business and know something about programming,
reliability and quality assurance ... so better not to get into contact with them.
So a win win for everyone - cough! ;)
For further details, see:
* https://www.gog.com/forum/aragami/any_news_about_the_missing_cutscenes_on_linux/post2
Wow, a linux user who's level headed and not toxic. That's very rare. Yeah I felt that a lot of small developers already working like crazy to build their games. We need to understand that there's a lot of limitation with those kind of developers. Sometimes it's saddening to see reviews filled with people complaining about lack of linux version even when the developer don't have enough manpower and capital to do that.
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RedRagan: Wow, a linux user who's level headed and not toxic. That's very rare. Yeah I felt that a lot of small developers already working like crazy to build their games. We need to understand that there's a lot of limitation with those kind of developers. Sometimes it's saddening to see reviews filled with people complaining about lack of linux version even when the developer don't have enough manpower and capital to do that.
You clearly didn't read the comment to which he/she linked and therefore misinterpreted his/her words. Here's that linked comment again, for reference (written by that same commenter):
https://www.gog.com/forum/aragami/any_news_about_the_missing_cutscenes_on_linux/post2

He/she most definitely is a toxic Linux user, claiming that if a developer cannot release a game on Linux and MacOS, then they shouldn't be selling games at all. Then he/she complained that GOG is selling modern games, not exclusively selling games that are 20+ years old (as if that could ever be a successful business model). He/she ended that linked comment with the following ridiculous BS:

"And DRM-free is neither Windows nor macOS ... and with OSE games can be supported forever
by communities which is already proven to work quite well ... so guess now what it means to no longer
really support GNU/Linux (look out for old Ubuntu 20.4 LTS as supported OS, for example) ... is this still GOG?"
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RedRagan: Wow, a linux user who's level headed and not toxic. That's very rare. Yeah I felt that a lot of small developers already working like crazy to build their games. We need to understand that there's a lot of limitation with those kind of developers. Sometimes it's saddening to see reviews filled with people complaining about lack of linux version even when the developer don't have enough manpower and capital to do that.
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cmclout: You clearly didn't read the comment to which he/she linked and therefore misinterpreted his/her words. Here's that linked comment again, for reference (written by that same commenter):
https://www.gog.com/forum/aragami/any_news_about_the_missing_cutscenes_on_linux/post2

He/she most definitely is a toxic Linux user, claiming that if a developer cannot release a game on Linux and MacOS, then they shouldn't be selling games at all. Then he/she complained that GOG is selling modern games, not exclusively selling games that are 20+ years old (as if that could ever be a successful business model). He/she ended that linked comment with the following ridiculous BS:

"And DRM-free is neither Windows nor macOS ... and with OSE games can be supported forever
by communities which is already proven to work quite well ... so guess now what it means to no longer
really support GNU/Linux (look out for old Ubuntu 20.4 LTS as supported OS, for example) ... is this still GOG?"
Oh I see, then that guy simply perpetuate the stigma about linux users. I'm a fool for having a hope.
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RedRagan: Oh I see, then that guy simply perpetuate the stigma about linux users. I'm a fool for having a hope.
I am sorry - if this is your impression you are free to say your opinion.
The 1st thing is I am a Unix expert - not a game developer.
At first I want to help with testing ... give bug reports - even swap libraries or game engine (via OSE) and
try to give detailed info for other gamers having same problems.
But as I am not a game developer this help is limited, but I can clearly say if code is working
on GNU/Linux or if it is broken.

I am aware of limited resources and that people make their living with programming games.
But have a look at single developers at itch.io who can create great games in few days and
make their games available on three platforms FOR FREE - especially those using Unity.
And when reporting a bug getting an answer in hours - and if it is not fixed with first try they are
working hard till it is fixed.
I deeply respect this behavior.

And here this game (Aragami) is known - had good reputation and reviews - and the sequel which is high priced
is only available for Windows - and look at the devs statement on Steam:
He claims that it would not be possible for a team to fix bugs for Linux or Mac - and states numbers.

If you have sympathy with this statement I am happy if you decide to buy this game.
As a professional I am not inclined to understand this line of argumentation.
So this is no opinion - it is a devs' statement and some true facts about development with Unity.

It is interesting that argumentation is regarded as rant or toxic ... and as given I was reached out
for devs to ask if the other ports will come later - which is often the case and which I can understand -
before I was pointed to the steam info of Aragami 2 devs.
So I won't get an answer - because GOG is a small fraction of Steam as GNU/Linux+macOS sales is a small
fraction of Windows sales - this is a fact and it was given by other devs to be similar fractions.
So just make up your mind if you REALLY think this is just toxic / hating poor devs / rant or if this
is an argumentation on firm ground.

Are you really happy with this statement - even if you were using exclusively Windows?

And to the other one:
Yes, I expect that a game which sold good will get updated 5 and 10 years after release with new game engines.
And guess what - that is really done by amateur devs ... while there are "small teams" whining that this is too much
work for there team.
And no, I am happy if devs decide to not release special ports - it is there decision. The fact is if you know what
you are doing - you can create this ports. And if several one-person teams can do this, how can a "small team"
cry about something they are just not capable to do while a single person can?
I have several times come across devs releasing games for GNU/Linux and saying their knowledge is limited,
but could fix bugs with some feedback.
If you ask for money, the quality should be Ok ... if it is not beta state but actually released, critical opinions are
just earned. I value engagement - it must not be perfect on release.

And yes, I have a list of devs falling in three categories: really good and responsive - ok - and not ok and not
responsive ... all of similar size when selling games for money - and much better when they give it for free.
Maybe someone can answer why this impression seems to be valid ... normally it is the other way around - isn't it?
Post edited August 14, 2021 by JMB9
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RedRagan: Oh I see, then that guy simply perpetuate the stigma about linux users. I'm a fool for having a hope.
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JMB9: I am sorry - if this is your impression you are free to say your opinion.
The 1st thing is I am a Unix expert - not a game developer.
At first I want to help with testing ... give bug reports - even swap libraries or game engine (via OSE) and
try to give detailed info for other gamers having same problems.
But as I am not a game developer this help is limited, but I can clearly say if code is working
on GNU/Linux or if it is broken.

I am aware of limited resources and that people make their living with programming games.
But have a look at single developers at itch.io who can create great games in few days and
make their games available on three platforms FOR FREE - especially those using Unity.
And when reporting a bug getting an answer in hours - and if it is not fixed with first try they are
working hard till it is fixed.
I deeply respect this behavior.

And here this game (Aragami) is known - had good reputation and reviews - and the sequel which is high priced
is only available for Windows - and look at the devs statement on Steam:
He claims that it would not be possible for a team to fix bugs for Linux or Mac - and states numbers.

If you have sympathy with this statement I am happy if you decide to buy this game.
As a professional I am not inclined to understand this line of argumentation.
So this is no opinion - it is a devs' statement and some true facts about development with Unity.

It is interesting that argumentation is regarded as rant or toxic ... and as given I was reached out
for devs to ask if the other ports will come later - which is often the case and which I can understand -
before I was pointed to the steam info of Aragami 2 devs.
So I won't get an answer - because GOG is a small fraction of Steam as GNU/Linux+macOS sales is a small
fraction of Windows sales - this is a fact and it was given by other devs to be similar fractions.
So just make up your mind if you REALLY think this is just toxic / hating poor devs / rant or if this
is an argumentation on firm ground.

Are you really happy with this statement - even if you were using exclusively Windows?

And to the other one:
Yes, I expect that a game which sold good will get updated 5 and 10 years after release with new game engines.
And guess what - that is really done by amateur devs ... while there are "small teams" whining that this is too much
work for there team.
And no, I am happy if devs decide to not release special ports - it is there decision. The fact is if you know what
you are doing - you can create this ports. And if several one-person teams can do this, how can a "small team"
cry about something they are just not capable to do while a single person can?
I have several times come across devs releasing games for GNU/Linux and saying their knowledge is limited,
but could fix bugs with some feedback.
If you ask for money, the quality should be Ok ... if it is not beta state but actually released, critical opinions are
just earned. I value engagement - it must not be perfect on release.

And yes, I have a list of devs falling in three categories: really good and responsive - ok - and not ok and not
responsive ... all of similar size when selling games for money - and much better when they give it for free.
Maybe someone can answer why this impression seems to be valid ... normally it is the other way around - isn't it?
heh
Attachments:
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JMB9: I am sorry - if this is your impression you are free to say your opinion.
...long, repetitive rant...
RedRagan and I believe you to be toxic due to the attitude you show which seems to indicate that you believe everything should be done the way you want it to be done and that all developers should behave the way you want them to behave, and if they dare behave differently, then they shouldn't be allowed to make games.

You said you aren't a game developer, and that much is quite clear. If developers who release games on itch.io can release games for three platforms, good for them. That doesn't mean everyone can. Some assets/libraries are built for Windows only, even some sold on the Unity Asset Store. I don't know if that's the case with Aragami, but it might be.

You also said "I am aware of limited resources and that people make their living with programming games", but then you proceeded to show that you do NOT understand what that means. There's a big difference between people making games in their spare time and a developer making games full-time. Someone doing it as a hobby doesn't need to worry about making money from it. Someone doing it full-time, however, needs to earn money, so every decision needs to follow a cost-benefit analysis. If a developer will lose money by implementing the changes necessary to support additional platforms, then it's unreasonable to expect them to do so. It is also extremely unreasonable to expect developers to update a game with a new game engine 5 or 10 years after release. Again, if people on itch.io can do it, great, but a full-time developer doing that would almost surely be losing money. Again, ti's the difference between hobbyist and professional.

Speaking of professional, you said "[a]s a professional I am not inclined to understand this line of argumentation". So you admit that you're not a game developer, but for some reason, you feel qualified to definitively state that the company has the resources to "fix bugs for Linux or Mac" and to develop Aragami 2 for Linux and Mac, despite the fact that the developer has already stated they don't have any Linux or Mac computers.

Am I happy that Aragami 2 will be Windows-only? No, I'm not happy about it at all, but I understand the reasons.

If you want more game developers to support Linux, then there's a simple solution. Convince more people to use Linux. Boycotting and speaking ill about a developer because they don't release a game for an operating system that has about a 2% market share is... ridiculous, to put it nicely.