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TARFU: Ok, let's look at a sword bought from a blacksmith. The blacksmith might refuse to tell you the special technique he may have used to forge the sword, but once you pay him and he gives the sword to you, you can do whatever you want with it. That includes repairing it and trying to forge a similar copy, possibly exact copy if you can figure out his technique. Not to mention that something metal like a sword will last practically forever if cared for.

I just used the book example because books are common and I'd wager that all of us here have read a book, but not necessarily held a sword. Yes, paper books may not last as long as digital information (but maybe so, given the age of some scrolls/manuscripts). Basically, you are saying "humanity didn't have paper for thousands of years, so the concept of owner's rights disappeared once paper was invented", only applied to digital stuff. I disagree with the concept that just because something is digital, you don't own it. And I suspect you must agree with it to some extent as well, or you wouldn't be interested in buying games on GOG. The main feature GOG has to offer is DRM-free games.
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amok: lets not look at a sword from a blacksmith, it is still a physical item and does not apply.. so I stopped reading there.

edit - the sword will wear down - digital does not. I can't copy the sword, and instantly send the copy to my friend in china who can copy it again and each will be a perfect copy and so on

edit 2 - and I am saying anything physical (the book, the sword, a stone age club) is different from digital
digital can wear down the more you play a game drm free or not it makes read and write processes to your hard drive which then has limited life just like the other guy said if you have a book with information on it it will eventually rot away unless kept in some chest or something, you can apply this to the digital world as our hard drives are just like books that can store infromation, ever since the 9.5 inch floppy to 12tb HDD's and 4TB SSD'S and after awhile this informatio nwill either be deleted lost or stolen or replaced
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amok: lets not look at a sword from a blacksmith, it is still a physical item and does not apply.. so I stopped reading there.

edit - the sword will wear down - digital does not. I can't copy the sword, and instantly send the copy to my friend in china who can copy it again and each will be a perfect copy and so on

edit 2 - and I am saying anything physical (the book, the sword, a stone age club) is different from digital
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moobot83: digital can wear down the more you play a game drm free or not it makes read and write processes to your hard drive which then has limited life just like the other guy said if you have a book with information on it it will eventually rot away unless kept in some chest or something, you can apply this to the digital world as our hard drives are just like books that can store infromation, ever since the 9.5 inch floppy to 12tb HDD's and 4TB SSD'S and after awhile this informatio nwill either be deleted lost or stolen or replaced
no, the disk or the HD wear down, they are physical. the actual code does not, and can be kept indefinitely in many different shapes - this is the digital content
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moobot83: digital can wear down the more you play a game drm free or not it makes read and write processes to your hard drive which then has limited life just like the other guy said if you have a book with information on it it will eventually rot away unless kept in some chest or something, you can apply this to the digital world as our hard drives are just like books that can store infromation, ever since the 9.5 inch floppy to 12tb HDD's and 4TB SSD'S and after awhile this informatio nwill either be deleted lost or stolen or replaced
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amok: no, the disk or the HD wear down, they are physical. the actual code does not, and can be kept indefinitely in many different shapes - this is the digital content
Ultimately code is as mortal as the medium or media on which it is stored. Anyone whose pet shots were stored on a single corrupted drive would testify to that.

You need physical access to enter, change, transmit or read code, so isolating it as an idealized free-floating entity is meaningless.
They're making a new Xbox? It feels like it was only last week that the Xbox1 came out.
Post edited April 23, 2019 by Crosmando
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amok: no, the disk or the HD wear down, they are physical. the actual code does not, and can be kept indefinitely in many different shapes - this is the digital content
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StarChan: Ultimately code is as mortal as the medium or media on which it is stored. Anyone whose pet shots were stored on a single corrupted drive would testify to that.

You need physical access to enter, change, transmit or read code, so isolating it as an idealized free-floating entity is meaningless.
It's not meaningless at all as the nature of the digital content itself means it can be 1:1 duplicated an infinite number of times. The lifespan of the data is in no way tied to the lifespan of the medium, which is why it absolutely makes sense to talk about it independently of the physical media.
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StarChan: Ultimately code is as mortal as the medium or media on which it is stored. Anyone whose pet shots were stored on a single corrupted drive would testify to that.

You need physical access to enter, change, transmit or read code, so isolating it as an idealized free-floating entity is meaningless.
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SirPrimalform: It's not meaningless at all as the nature of the digital content itself means it can be 1:1 duplicated an infinite number of times. The lifespan of the data is in no way tied to the lifespan of the medium, which is why it absolutely makes sense to talk about it independently of the physical media.
Duplicated from what - onto what?
The next gen of xbox will have a discless one. I'm not sure on PS5 or not, but I DO know PS5 will have access to the ps4's digital and physical library. In other words, it will be backwards compatible, which is where PS4 lost this console generation.

MS is pushing hard for digital only and for restricting access. But keep in mind these are the same people that want to make Windows a subscription based platform - and it already is, they just don't charge us for it yet.

When it comes to OS"s I'm as lazy as they come, and I'm taking it on myself to learn the basics of Linux because if MS ever DOES force millions of people to pay to access win 10, I'm reinstalling win 7 on a partition and switching as much to Linux as possible.

I digressed here, but we have two potential outcomes on this path we're taking as consumers: We can either support digital only with no right of resale, or we can prolong the life of disc based systems. Your choice. They already got pc users to forget about disc drives in a lot of modern pc builds.
Just from the news the XBone and PS4 had annoyances i didn't consider them worth looking into.

Now if Microsoft and Sony both push Digital-only, then again i'll be skipping another console generation.

Ahem... maybe i should write a letter.

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[s]Dear Microsoft & Sony & Game Devs,[/s]

Dear Triple A Gaming industry,

It is sad you haven't learned your lesson and going down this route still. DRM to degrees i find unacceptable. Games sent incomplete and patched later, games far too large (for their actual content), games slower and unwieldly compared to previous consoles. Games requiring constant online internet access, invasive Denuvo.

You've followed the path of Hollywood. All flashy effects, no story and no substance, and constant remakes and nothing ever unique and interesting.

This is not what i look forward to when i want to play a game. I don't care about 4K, about how many polygons or pixels i have on the screen at the same time. I don't care about reiterations of a game that i never played before, and the games i would have bought at the drop of a hat due to nostalgia have long since been lost. Sorry, your Tomb Raider reboot has little interest to me, your HitMan has little interest to me, your Resident Evils has little interest to me. Your Final Fantasy 7 has little interest to me, your EA Battle Front has little interest to me, your Dungeon Keeper Mobile, no interest in me. EA Sports games... yeah never had interest with me. I can go on, looking over and seeing a hundred such 'games and deals and new' stuff, but no, there's nothing there. Like trying to build a house out of soap bubble foam.

Even what i would have considered the mightiest of gaming companies is falling and it's just a matter of time. And the push for digital only purchasing just annoys me.

Then the push for silliness and invasion of SJWs, Diversity, and other bullshit that turns other people off. So... yeah, i'm not buying. I'm not accepting your lure. I would rather you crash and start over or go back to your roots. There's plenty of lower budget games far better than you, on platforms less expensive than you, far more open and honest than you.

If you want my money. Sorry, you need to earn it. Years ago you lost any lingering good will i had for you. A few game devs i will consider still are worth buying from, but not you, not the Triple A group. And not your 'It's actually a PC-Console's.

If the gaming industry and Movie industry crash... we have a lot of movies we can tide us over until they are reborn as budding promising companies, and they will likely have huge infusions of cash because we'll be hungry again for something new and interesting. But you cannot make every game sell millions of copies, sell millions of skins in micro transactions, sell loot boxes trying to be the Mobile Gaming world, and at the same time push several open world time sinks at the same time.

I bought a toy, $10, called a rubix cube. It has kept me more entertained and occupied than all the new Disney Star Wars movies, the Disney remakes, the Hitman games, the Kingdom hearts, your endless 'achievements' and other games combined. Sorry. You're being beaten, by a 40+ yearold toy that even a baby can play with.

I will watch from the back. I will shake my head. And i will begin more productive things.

Disheartened,

A gamer.
Post edited April 23, 2019 by rtcvb32
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CymTyr: The next gen of xbox will have a discless one. I'm not sure on PS5 or not, but I DO know PS5 will have access to the ps4's digital and physical library. In other words, it will be backwards compatible, which is where PS4 lost this console generation.

MS is pushing hard for digital only and for restricting access. But keep in mind these are the same people that want to make Windows a subscription based platform - and it already is, they just don't charge us for it yet.

When it comes to OS"s I'm as lazy as they come, and I'm taking it on myself to learn the basics of Linux because if MS ever DOES force millions of people to pay to access win 10, I'm reinstalling win 7 on a partition and switching as much to Linux as possible.

I digressed here, but we have two potential outcomes on this path we're taking as consumers: We can either support digital only with no right of resale, or we can prolong the life of disc based systems. Your choice. They already got pc users to forget about disc drives in a lot of modern pc builds.
My question is will the PS5 be bc with PS3? I took it as a given that the PS5 would be backwards compatible with the PS4 but I need it backwards compatible with the PS3. PSNow does NOT have the the full audio experience with those titles so it is far inferior in my opinion and NOT a reasonable substitute.
Even IF it has backwards compatibility with PS3 I HATE the choice I have between Sony and MS as Sony is now CENSORING some titles and you outlined the problem with MS. Oh and these titles are on Steam so DRM. If I'm LUCKY it might be on the Switch but then what are the specs. on it for audio? 5.1, Lossless support? I know Wii U used PCM.
I think a 360 digital only model released LONG after the product cycle of the original with a 1 tb. or 2 tb. HDD and treated as a secondary market for those of lower income with aggressive sales and quite reasonable low prices as standard would've been brilliant. The specs. would also make the HDD standard swappable like the PS3 and 4 as well as firmware being updated to accept up to 256 gb. USB sticks. As for digital concerns look no further then 360's "Indie Games" some of which are exclusive and could be lost due to MS's DRM check for legitimacy, that it has to be online to even play.
edit: Oh and on a side note Sony is killing me as they will have a new PSVR model for PS5 which will likely be 4K with HDR. The problem is it will be wireless and I want a wired adapter option as I DON'T plan to use this primarily for my VR experience but movies and tv shows. I'm not thrilled to have my head baking with this just to watch tv/movies, I get it with games.
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amok: no, the disk or the HD wear down, they are physical. the actual code does not, and can be kept indefinitely in many different shapes - this is the digital content
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StarChan: Ultimately code is as mortal as the medium or media on which it is stored. Anyone whose pet shots were stored on a single corrupted drive would testify to that.

You need physical access to enter, change, transmit or read code, so isolating it as an idealized free-floating entity is meaningless.
not really, as code can be duplicated perfectly. it can just migrate from medium to medium, and if stored in cloud / online....
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StarChan: Ultimately code is as mortal as the medium or media on which it is stored. Anyone whose pet shots were stored on a single corrupted drive would testify to that.

You need physical access to enter, change, transmit or read code, so isolating it as an idealized free-floating entity is meaningless.
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SirPrimalform: It's not meaningless at all as the nature of the digital content itself means it can be 1:1 duplicated an infinite number of times. The lifespan of the data is in no way tied to the lifespan of the medium, which is why it absolutely makes sense to talk about it independently of the physical media.
yes, exactly....
Post edited April 23, 2019 by amok
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StarChan: Ultimately code is as mortal as the medium or media on which it is stored. Anyone whose pet shots were stored on a single corrupted drive would testify to that.

You need physical access to enter, change, transmit or read code, so isolating it as an idealized free-floating entity is meaningless.
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amok: not really, as code can be duplicated perfectly. it can just migrate from medium to medium, and if stored in cloud / online....
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SirPrimalform: It's not meaningless at all as the nature of the digital content itself means it can be 1:1 duplicated an infinite number of times. The lifespan of the data is in no way tied to the lifespan of the medium, which is why it absolutely makes sense to talk about it independently of the physical media.
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amok: yes, exactly....
Why, exactly? In case you just chose to ignore my reply to the poster you agree with, I'll repeat it here: Regardong infinite duplication, duplicated from what, and onto what? Theoretical physical media?
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StarChan: Duplicated from what - onto what?
From any digital medium onto any other digital medium as many times as you want. Lifespan of the medium is irrelevant as long as it lasts at least long enough for you to make another copy.
Responding to the poster with the InfoWars avatar I know a way to check Hollywood of their arrogance in both movies and especially TV. I will speak not disclose this publicly because, while what I wish to do is not illegal and GOG and others would quite voraciously support me, I don't want them to be able to avoid it or mitigate things substantially.
I want them to eat Humble pie, learn from it and make media comparable to what they did back in the day, like the golden age of Hollywood and shortly thereafter. Oh and if you think I'm strange for not mentioning my plans outright take "Darkwatch" and "Daywatch" into account. Supposedly one of the rumors floating about why FOX didn't help finance the 3rd is they didn't want a foreign movie franchise that could really compete in box office with American films.

As for 4K et al, I have no problem with it or 6K but I think 8K is idiotic and totally unnecessary unless you play all your games on a concert screen. Instead game developers and movie makers should focus on Lossless video and making sure the displayed visual assets are visually identical to the source material.
Audio is another matter entirely as higher choice is optional and is not detrimental to older source material. For example I can listen to a track at 24/192 under a 2-channel setup or CHOOSE to matrix it. This has complete flexibility and if I have a high quality DAC it will decode the higher quality audio but not "upscale" the 24/192 by force. For TV's 8K will end up upscaling like 95% of content because most movie content is 35 mm. which is roughly equivalent to 4K. Upscaling is a LOSS of resolution to me at least and I prefer 1:1 repro. not 1:2,

edit: As for SJW stuff I don't mind if it naturally meshes in game but if it's shoehorned in that's a problem.
Post edited April 23, 2019 by Sarang
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StarChan: Duplicated from what - onto what?
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SirPrimalform: From any digital medium onto any other digital medium as many times as you want. Lifespan of the medium is irrelevant as long as it lasts at least long enough for you to make another copy.
The problem with your argument is the 'infinite number of times' statement, as it would presuppose an infinite number of physical media, and it is a bold claim to maintain that there will always be new physical media available. There is also a problem with constancy. Don't forget that data loss actually occurs.
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SirPrimalform: From any digital medium onto any other digital medium as many times as you want. Lifespan of the medium is irrelevant as long as it lasts at least long enough for you to make another copy.
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StarChan: The problem with your argument is the 'infinite number of times' statement, as it would presuppose an infinite number of physical media, and it is a bold claim to maintain that there will always be new physical media available. There is also a problem with constancy. Don't forget that data loss actually occurs.
How about having giant metal sheets where we print the code in binary under an electron microscope? Would that suffice under your data loss concerns?