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General discussionMass Effect 3(1002 posts)(1002 posts)
(1002 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted June 03, 2014
Still ragging on ME3? Just accept the game for what it is and appreciate the great stuff. I did and I'm playing ME3 again and again loving every bit of it (well, most of it). :)
Posted June 04, 2014
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lukaszthegreat: Bioware could have done so much with choices and the end of trilogy.
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Fenixp: Hardly. They could have done more endings based on your choices, yes - nonetheless, based on your previous choices, you only see about 1/3rd of dialogue and characters troughout every single ME3 playtrough, entirely based on your previous choices. That's some bloody dedication. Yes, it did make all dialogues in ME3 a bit more shallow... But I'm fine with it. As far as I'm concerned, ME3 did just about the best job with imported saves that I've ever seen in my gaming life.
I don't understand your point Fenixp. You are talking about the game while we are talking the end. I never denied that the game is great. I posted in game finished.... thread that i absolutely adored it.

we are talking about the ending and how it lacked the choice impact. not how the game lacked choice impact because choices in previous games did impact stuff happening.
but they did not impact the end. you just need to get enough points. points which are easy to get and they are not affected by choices. just the amount you get per mission.



so yes. they could have done more with the ending. they could have continue what they were doing with the rest of the game. but they didn't and that sucks.
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niniendowarrior: Still ragging on ME3? Just accept the game for what it is and appreciate the great stuff. I did and I'm playing ME3 again and again loving every bit of it (well, most of it). :)
why still?

i just beat the game not even a week ago. so that means i shouldn't talk about it because everyone else talked about it 2 years ago.

i loved the game, i loved the trilogy. Im incredibly sad that it ended. and ive beaten it for the first time few days ago and just had to post my thoughts (reason why my post was so long. :) :) )
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Tekkaman-James: Considering that Casey Hudson (and, by extension, BioWare) went on record as saying that Mass Effect would not end on a "Choose A, B or C" scenario, it is their betrayal of the fans that is the real tragedy. Everything that you said above is valid, accurate, and true. But the reason we did not get the choice we were promised is because EA's execs and Casey Hudson sold us out and, when we called them out on their bullsh'tet, they hid behind the shield of "Artistic Integrity" and then called us "whiny and self-entitled fanboys".

I bought all three games in their collector's editions. I bought the iPhone games. I bought Dragon Age: Origins for the Blood Dragon Armor DLC for ME2. I bought bottles of Mountain Dew and Dr Pepper to get helmets and weapons for ME2. I played Facebook games to get early access to the ME3 demo and boosts for my multiplayer character. I bought the novels, the toys and the art books. Heck, I even made a song parody music video!

Regardless of all of that, none of it makes me entitled.

What does make me entitled is BioWare themselves. By letting the fans have a voice, listening to that voice, and changing aspects of the game because of that voice is what makes me entitled. People wanted to romance Tali and Garrus, two characters that BioWare felt were "too alien" to be appealing as love interests, and they made it happen. People hated the Mako, so they took it out. People hated scanning planets, so they took it out. Some people wanted more RPG and some wanted less, so they created alternate playstyles in ME3 to suit both groups of gamers. We were a part of the development process and BioWare liked it that way.

When the third game was nearing release, they made promises that were not kept. They told us our choices would matter, they didn't. They told us that playing from ME1 to ME3 would have better rewards than just playing ME3 alone, it didn't. They said our endings would be unique to our Shepard's story, they weren't.

What we got was a half-assed ending and an advertisement to buy DLC.

Amazon offered full refunds on returned open copies of ME3. EA was voted the worst company in America by Forbes magazine. The founders of BioWare left the video gaming industry entirely. Fan efforts such as"Retake Mass Effect" and "Marauder Shields" and the "Mass Effect Ending Mod" made international news.

The endings were bad, there's no doubt about that. But BioWare / EA's betrayal was worse.

TL;DR = I'm butthurt, but justified. EA sux.
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yarow12: With all due respect, you are a spoiled fanboy.
Bioware made such a great series that you--the fanboys--became fanatical towards it (to whatever degree), spoiled you by actually listening to what you had to say, and betrayed/devastated you by settling with an ending that they surely knew fans would not appreciate and definitely weren't expecting, especially with the "take Earth back" marketing pitch.

Here's the thing, though: The ending is realistic.
In the end, no matter what we do, no matter whose life we touch, no matter what mark we leave on the world, all turns to dust. Death, like the coming of the Reapers, is inevitable and endless. As long as (sentient) life exists, so will death/Reapers.
Life's a game that nobody wins, because we all die in the end. It's okay, though, because it's not about winning The Game. It's about enjoying the playthrough.
Did you?

TL;DR: Complaining about Mass Effect 3's ending is like complaining about the imminence of death.

I believe my work here is done.

*Incoming "but it's a fantasy/video game" argument*
i think you like Bioware misunderstood the issue with the ending. its not about the end of shepard story (we are angry about that because we want more. but thats just that. we need more but understand that it had to end)
its not about shep dieing (yes. we are sad about that because we want more of shep. but that's that. we accept his/her death even tough we are saddened by it)

the issue is that the end was sloppy. in core game it was done very poorly. extended cut makes it a bit better yet it does not fit the rest of the game.


your criticism is misplaced.
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Tekkaman-James: I saved the Rachni...twice! I let Balak, that damned Batarian terrorist go...twice! I cured the Krogan genophage! I rallied peace between the Quarians and the Geth! I did every inane fetch quest available to max out my war assets! I played hours of multiplayer to max out my Galactic Readiness! None of this matters? NONE of it?!? Why did I even do any of it? What was the point of any of the journey I took to get to this point?
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Fenixp: Well... With increasing war assets, more endings unlock, and their 'variations' get better. So it does matter. A lot, actually.
nothing matter. everyone gets the same endings no matter what they did. you just need to do enough stuff to get enough points or just play a lot of MP.
so no.
it does not matter.
Post edited June 04, 2014 by lukaszthegreat
Posted June 04, 2014
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lukaszthegreat: so yes. they could have done more with the ending. they could have continue what they were doing with the rest of the game. but they didn't and that sucks.
Fair enough.

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lukaszthegreat: nothing matter. everyone gets the same endings no matter what they did. you just need to do enough stuff to get enough points or just play a lot of MP.
so no.
it does not matter.
That's just not true tho - the 'points' you collect directly influence the endings, and points in turn are directly influenced by your decisions (and completion rating). So everything you do does matter, it just doesn't matter in a way you would personally prefer. Which I won't argue against, nonetheless, saying that nothing you did matters is just misleading.
Posted June 04, 2014
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Fenixp: That's just not true tho - the 'points' you collect directly influence the endings, and points in turn are directly influenced by your decisions (and completion rating). So everything you do does matter, it just doesn't matter in a way you would personally prefer. Which I won't argue against, nonetheless, saying that nothing you did matters is just misleading.
your choices do not matter. only whether youve done enough of the game matters. the amount of points you got affect the ending not what you picked.
let rachini live or kill them. you still get points.
geth or quairans: doesn't matter. both choices will provide points.

so no. the ending is not influenced whatsoever by choices you made during three games. only how much of the game you had played.
Posted June 04, 2014
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lukaszthegreat: geth or quairans: doesn't matter. both choices will provide points.
*spoilers*
Thanks for bringing that up - based on the choices from previous games, you can save both and get war assets from both of them. However, if you chose a different path than I did, chances are you won't get there. And there's a lot of war assets that you're quite simply not going to get without the imported decisions from the previous games.
*/spoilers*

Now for the discussion about war assets in general - as far as I'm concerned, it's an absolutely fantastic idea. Your goal is to amass resistance against Reapers, no matter what the source - however, it's up to you, the player, to get as many sources as possible, get them into a state where they're as powerful as possible, and get them in a way that you perceive as moral or justified. This will net you war assets, and different war assets at that - yes, it technically doesn't matter whether Geth or Quarians fight for you, and it honestly should not matter. You're out to get allies, and your goal is and always will be the same: Elimination of the reapers. It's a very singular goal, and all your decisions lead towards it. Basically, my point is that what matters is the journey - in the end, Reapers won't give a shit what you throw at them, just as they shouldn't.
Posted June 04, 2014
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Fenixp: *spoilers*
Thanks for bringing that up - based on the choices from previous games, you can save both and get war assets from both of them. However, if you chose a different path than I did, chances are you won't get there. And there's a lot of war assets that you're quite simply not going to get without the imported decisions from the previous games.
*/spoilers*
yep. i managed to do that. felt good.

Now for the discussion about war assets in general - as far as I'm concerned, it's an absolutely fantastic idea. Your goal is to amass resistance against Reapers, no matter what the source - however, it's up to you, the player, to get as many sources as possible, get them into a state where they're as powerful as possible, and get them in a way that you perceive as moral or justified. This will net you war assets, and different war assets at that - yes, it technically doesn't matter whether Geth or Quarians fight for you, and it honestly should not matter. You're out to get allies, and your goal is and always will be the same: Elimination of the reapers. It's a very singular goal, and all your decisions lead towards it. Basically, my point is that what matters is the journey - in the end, Reapers won't give a shit what you throw at them, just as they shouldn't.
no matter what choices you picked you are still gonna get best ending. even if every single choice was a bad idea. as long as you try to complete all quest you gonna get three choices.

and its not about whether reapers care or not. it is about our choices affecting what ending we get. and they don't. at all.
as long as you do every single quest and request you are gonna amass enough war assets to get three endings. no matter what you did during the game. there is simply no fail state in this game when it comes to choices like in ME2 where a good choice of having miranda provide the shield is not good enough and will result in one of your party members dieing.

a choice with consequences.
here there are none.


again: don't get me wrong. im not attacking the game. i loved it, i loved the journey, i loved those little touches. yet i think bioware could have done better.


i agree that adventure matters. that's why i loved the game and loved the ending. does not mean it could not be done better. does not mean that bioware did not mess up.
Posted June 04, 2014
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lukaszthegreat: geth or quairans: doesn't matter. both choices will provide points.
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Fenixp: *spoilers*
Thanks for bringing that up - based on the choices from previous games, you can save both and get war assets from both of them. However, if you chose a different path than I did, chances are you won't get there. And there's a lot of war assets that you're quite simply not going to get without the imported decisions from the previous games.
*/spoilers*

Now for the discussion about war assets in general - as far as I'm concerned, it's an absolutely fantastic idea. Your goal is to amass resistance against Reapers, no matter what the source - however, it's up to you, the player, to get as many sources as possible, get them into a state where they're as powerful as possible, and get them in a way that you perceive as moral or justified. This will net you war assets, and different war assets at that - yes, it technically doesn't matter whether Geth or Quarians fight for you, and it honestly should not matter. You're out to get allies, and your goal is and always will be the same: Elimination of the reapers. It's a very singular goal, and all your decisions lead towards it. Basically, my point is that what matters is the journey - in the end, Reapers won't give a shit what you throw at them, just as they shouldn't.
A good idea poorly done. I was expecting and hoping for some cut scenes, anything, to show me how the EMS points mattered. It would have been nice to see those Asari commandos boarding Reaper ships and attaching bombs to their hulls, or the Salarian STG group studying new ways to penetrate Reaper armor... something. No matter how many EMS missions you do, you ultimately get a short scene of the fleet arriving, and some manner of difference in the Quarian/Geth options. That's pretty much it. Remember how long that EMS list was? How many Turian fleets can you get? 3? 4? The mercenary groups? All of them. It doesn't matter. We want things to matter, especially when it comes to the payoff climax of a story. Sure, it was a decent concept in dealing with how the player handles the big fight at the end, but because of the bottlenecked blue/green/red ending, it all ends up meaning jack squat. You can do all the mandatory main missions, squander your efforts to build EMS, and still get the same blue/green/red ending. Gamers who are offered a chance in games to have their choices matter should be rewarded with... you know, choices that matter. Hell, even a goofy cliffhanger ending would have been better than what we got.

The ending just sucks, and therefore it makes the rest of the game, and the whole series in my opinion, suck a little bit more than it would otherwise. But when you study the story behind the story and realize that the ending was written by two men, only one of whom was a writer, and there was no outside influence or input on the ending, it makes sense. Personally, I think the controversy may have been an unintentional bonus for EA. Two years after the trilogy's finale, we're still talking about that goddamn ending. No such thing as bad press, right?
Posted June 04, 2014
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Emob78: *snip*
I agree with every word of your post. Well put.

My apologies to all those who responded to me in my absence, but I feel that lukaszthegreat did a great job of speaking for me.

I also would like to apologize to anyone who thought that my comments were meant to elicit swearing and insult-hurling. That was not my intention. I was merely attempting to share my thoughts on the ending in light of the people who recently finished the game for the first time.
Posted June 04, 2014
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niniendowarrior: Still ragging on ME3? Just accept the game for what it is and appreciate the great stuff. I did and I'm playing ME3 again and again loving every bit of it (well, most of it). :)
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lukaszthegreat: why still?

i just beat the game not even a week ago. so that means i shouldn't talk about it because everyone else talked about it 2 years ago.

i loved the game, i loved the trilogy. Im incredibly sad that it ended. and ive beaten it for the first time few days ago and just had to post my thoughts (reason why my post was so long. :) :) )
The "still" part refers to other players who have played the game and still moan about the ending and not specifically directed at you. I had my qualms about the ME3 ending, but I understand where they were going. The main issue to me is the presentation of the choices, not the choices themselves. Extended Cut also pretty much fixes most of my initial issues with it.
Posted June 04, 2014
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lukaszthegreat: no matter what choices you picked you are still gonna get best ending. even if every single choice was a bad idea. as long as you try to complete all quest you gonna get three choices.

and its not about whether reapers care or not. it is about our choices affecting what ending we get. and they don't. at all.
as long as you do every single quest and request you are gonna amass enough war assets to get three endings. no matter what you did during the game. there is simply no fail state in this game when it comes to choices like in ME2 where a good choice of having miranda provide the shield is not good enough and will result in one of your party members dieing.

a choice with consequences.
here there are none.
It seems to me, that the overall consistent theme of the consequences for choices amounted to who lives and who dies, within each game of the series and ultimately who will still be around by the end of the third and final episode of Shepard’s adventure.
Posted June 04, 2014
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GhostwriterDoF: It seems to me, that the overall consistent theme of the consequences for choices amounted to who lives and who dies, within each game of the series and ultimately who will still be around by the end of the third and final episode of Shepard’s adventure.
yes. and that consistency was no kept with the ending.
Posted May 15, 2015
Bump for preservation.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionMass Effect 3(1002 posts)(1002 posts)
(1002 posts)