Also, if you have night action and don't wish to use it, let me know as well so I don't have to wait for you in vain.

Oh my. I don't understand. Oh well... Who's gonna be next?

I've got a couple of analyses that I'll post later. For now it's good to know the game is back on.

Sorry, Bookwyrm, I was wrong. Will be interesting at the end of the game to see if some good comes from your play.

I apologize for my absence the last 24-36 leading to night one. Friday afternoon, I was working on a project the needed finished by Saturday morning. It ended up being much larger than anticipated and I pulled an all-nighter. Don’t remember the last time I did that. Left early Saturday morning and crashed when I got back. I’m too old for such nonsense. When I rejoined the living, Night had already set. The way things played out, I would not have moved my vote.

So we have two deaths, Kryspyn was shot and dedo appears to be killed by fire. Is there something to the arson thing?
What is everyone’s thought on the fire surrounding dedo’s death? The mafia wiki says a Firefighter typically protects against an arsonist, but is listed as pro-town, not scum. Perhaps we have a third party arsonist? Could a townie be an arsonist? Seems strange for town to have an arsonist.

Dedo started the wagon on JMich. If there is something to the arsonist thing, JMich is the one who mentioned it. Is this a coincidence? @Jmich – any reason you specifically mentioned arsonist?

Yes. There is one in play. I won't say anything else about it though, other than point out that the firefighter was mafia, not town.

And just so we don't have deadline problems, vote yogsloth.

Two weeks for murder.. I am not sure how I feel about that.

Firefighter and burned to death! Bahhhh....

This edit is Vitek approved :P

My thoughts were if Bookwyrm flipped town that JMich was scum from the way he placed his vote on day one. But now after seeing Dedo killed and flipping mafia I'm not so sure since he was pushing for JMich. JMich' reasoning for his vote on Bookwyrm plus the fact that Dedo was pushing for him makes me less inclined to see JMich as scum.

I want to know who killed Dedo and why. I saw no big indication to suspect him. Did he die when trying to set a fire or was it something else?

Krypsyn suspected RWarehall, but his death could just be mafia trying to cast more doubt on RW because I don't think RW is scum.

I would like to hear more thoughts on this from everyone else.

Dedo posted a total of 25 times in the game.

Dedo mentions 2-3-4 anti-town fractions - Flub calls him on this. - he says it was a simple proofreading error.

calls out agent for thinking about picking someone off who is not posting much - I do notice Dedo uses the phrase I can't be bothered to check if you are new or not...

Dedo wants more of Wyrms bating

Dedo - mentions Jester in passing on Wyrms play - calls out yogs for a similar play in the milk game

Dedo- agrees with me on agent seems familiar and he asks trent what is going to happen if wyrm flips town

- now sees yogs and wyrm as two townies barking at eachother - feels Bler is newbie town - wants to see more from Cristigal CSPVG and Jmic.. (his spelling on the last one)

-agrees with me on WR wording is a bit to town and then calls me out for my love of town - calls out Kryspyn for vote jumping - calls bler out for possibly sharing PM info

DEDOS NOTES - Some player views so far:

- Trent looks like usual town allied Trent. Leaning Town. Will see what will happen with his feud against Wyrm.
- bler was looking like an eager new townie until that vote swing towards Sage. A little less townie now, but still more than others, I guess. We'll see what's up.
- cristigale is bringing in good content so far, I really like her posts and her thoughts. Leaning Town.
- Sage made shared some nice thoughts initially, so I have her as leaning Town

- RW - I like some of his stuff and don't like some others. Krypsyn has him in his sights, that may or may not be relevant. Neutral for now.
- Wyrm is playing some one man army game that may or may not be harvesting the desired results. It got people moving, so that's something. Neutral for now but definitely a person of interest
- Yog seems convinced Wyrm is playing us by being too obvious which is I don't really agree with, but who knows. Even the broken clock tells the correct time twice a day. Neutral

- Krypsyn is the only person that I have never personally witnessed playing as Town and his play style is a bit hard to read so I basically have him as slightly scummy by default, but that's mostly because I still don't know better. We'll see.

For everyone else I don't have enough info to go on, I don't even want to categorize them as neutrals. JMich is the one I would like to hear more from.

---Long story short - I still don't fine a suitable vote target, even the scummiest player in my list.

--And last but not least, where did arsonists come from? And I accused Flub of being too specific when he talked about serial killers...

-- Dedo calls bler on not wanting to lynch and also on lynching a lurker

-- Dedo - calls Jmich on his vote on Wyrm and votes Jmich

--Dedo - answers Flubs question on would you vig kill your vote (No he would not) - talks about wyrms is scummy behavior but feels he is town - dedo doesnt like cspvg vote on me - find me scummy but a notch beflow cspvg

Game is back on, and my head is swimming with notes and thoughts. I’m going to start with picking up the pieces from yesterday, because obviously everyone is probably expecting something out of me. I was trying to figure out what to say that wouldn’t be self-serving and LAMIST, so I decided to just say two things.

The first is directed to Bookwrym, who will read this from the comfort of the dead thread:

Nuts to you, Bookwyrm. Nuts to you and nuts to your stupid plan.

The second is to relate a brief story. Day ended on Saturday morning (my time), while I was out with family all day. I didn’t find out about Day end until Saturday afternoon, some seven hours or so later, when I was able to log in and catch up. While I have edited/paraphrased a little in order to streamline the storytelling aspect, I swear this is the accurate gist of a conversation I had that evening.

Saturday evening we decided to have our dinner out on the back patio. As the whole family is sitting there, munching away, this occurs:

Mrs yog: “Honey, you seem distracted, is everything OK?”
yog: “Yeah, no, of course. Everything is fine. Don’t worry about it.”
Mrs yog: “Are you sure? You just really seem bothered by something.”
yog: “Nah, really, it’s nothing. Don’t even worry about it.”
Mrs. yog: (eyebrow raise)
yog: “OK OK. Bookwyrm flipped Town, and now everyone will think I’m an idiot.”

This was proceeded by a reasonably awkward silence. And that was proceeded by a Look. A Look, that nearly twenty years into our relationship, I feel I can fairly accurately interpret as something along the lines of “but you are”.

I will be posting a rant next, when I get to it. I’m sure you’ll all be thrilled.

arsonist(s) talked about in the thread

Jmich - Standard flavor. This leaves open the possibility of more than 2 factions (town and mafia), without naming said factions (second mafia faction, serial killers, arsonists etc). Doesn't say anything by itself, though if we start seeing multiple bodies during the nights, we may have to think about the possibility of more factions.

Dedo- And last but not least, where did arsonists come from? And I accused Flub of being too specific when he talked about serial killers...

Wyrm - JMich mentioned it at one point in passing. GOG's site seems to be crapping out on me, but I can't tell if the issue is GOG, my internet, or my computer. If I remember, I'll try again later.

Cristigal - I think I can answer this one…RWarehall questioned JMich’s use of term “arsonists” here:

CSPVG - I don't know if Arsonist is really that much of a noteworthy inclusion. It's out of the ordinary, sure, but after all (as I understand it) Arsonist is only a variation on Serial Killer (all Arsonist kills are done through, what else, fire and the flavour usually reflects this; plus the fact that there's usually a 'Firefighter' or somesuch role that is meant to stop Arsonists specifically). Taking this into account, and supposing this may be an unbalanced game (skewing towards role madness, I would guess), I don't think that Arsonist is that much of a wild or specific role to speculate about.

Flub - RWarehall - Post #271 - JMich, arsonists, got it.
- dedoporno - Post #290 - JMich posted something about arsonists in #212

Cristigal - So we have two deaths, Kryspyn was shot and dedo appears to be killed by fire. Is there something to the arson thing?
What is everyone’s thought on the fire surrounding dedo’s death? The mafia wiki says a Firefighter typically protects against an arsonist, but is listed as pro-town, not scum. Perhaps we have a third party arsonist? Could a townie be an arsonist? Seems strange for town to have an arsonist.

Dedo started the wagon on JMich. If there is something to the arsonist thing, JMich is the one who mentioned it. Is this a coincidence? @Jmich – any reason you specifically mentioned arsonist?

Jmich - Yes. There is one in play. I won't say anything else about it though, other than point out that the firefighter was mafia, not town.

Sage - copied Dedos notes

Very interesting night action. I wrote this (plus a much longer follow-up) Saturday afternoon, but the outcome of the night action at first blush only makes me more confident:

Doctor? Well, shit. Nobody could have seen that coming.

So the question becomes whether JMich is right and sacrificing a bishop yielded something of greater value. On the theory that JMich is right and I was completely wrong:

Vote Trentonlf
I’m throwing in all my chips plus the deed on the house.


p.s. Kudos to whoever knocked out dedo.

Rant time.

This will be my only post on the subject. I’m not quitting, and I’m not going to beat on this forever, but I feel like it’s got to be said. I’m aware I’ve got a bit of an attitude issue at the moment. It’s just the way it is for now. So here we are:

I can see from the asinine, nonsensical nature of all the revealed roles that we are once again in one of those massively over-complicated, probably totally unplayable messes of a game that veteran moderators for some reason feel compelled to create. I don’t know if it’s out of boredom or some kind of bragging rights to see who can build the most horribly complex, bogged-down mess of a game, but we’re back in one, and for me it just sucks all the fun right out of it.

Sage once suggested I should quit Forum Mafia and go play something a little easier, like Candyland. Okay, let’s look at Candyland.

Candyland is a game with the simplest rules possible. It’s so simple, your three-year-old can play it effectively. And you know what? The rules never change. But the game is just as much fun the 100th time you play it with your kids as the 1st time. That’s because the fun isn’t in the ruleset, it’s in the interaction of the players. Even though the rules are simple and unchanging, the fun comes from the way you talk and interact with your kids and your spouse as you play the game.

And so it is with Forum Mafia. The fun in this game is twofold:

1) Sleuthing. It’s a whodunit, and the joy is in trying to figure out who the liars and killers are, relying on your own smarts and, yes, guts. Using clues to unravel a mystery in which you get to play a direct part
2) Interaction of the players, as with any game. Having active, funny people to play with makes a good game.

So when you have a game with 1000 moving pieces, full of “liar roles”, where your decisions don’t mean anything and clues are false, the game devolves. Now you’re playing Master of Orion 3, where there are hundreds of sliders and switches, and none of them are adequately labeled, and nothing you do seems to matter in any way you can determine. At that point, the game devolves into one of two things- either you just shrug your shoulders and start killing people at random until the game inexplicably ends, or like with the similarly over-complicated unplayable mess of the Milk game, people give up completely and just stop voting… because why bother?

I mean, “trainee doctor”, “incompetent vigilante”, and “compulsive firefighter”? What the hell do any of those even mean? My first thought was that Krypsyn shot himself. What else does an "incompetent" vig do? But who knows? When there are multiple bodies hitting the floor with nonsensical descriptions of what happened, it feels like there’s nothing to put your teeth into to try and figure out what’s going on. It’s very… very… very frustrating for me.

But now it’s said, and as I mentioned up top, I’m not going to keep beating up the game for it. I’m going to get back in and do my best, but all of you will just have to forgive me if for multiple reasons, I just don’t feel quite up to wowing you all with my great logical deductions today.

Yeah, great, cute.

It's a consistent play on his part, anyway.

It's probably no comfort, but even the vanilla roles came with a twist:
Town: Chocolate-Vanilla swirl
Mafia C8H8O3
Neutral Vanilla Ice

I'll have to step up my youtubing in this round to keep up the torch for Kryp.

But seriously, I do agree with your basic point. I mean, we don't even know that Dedo and Kryp both didn't off themselves because their actions carried some sort of fail chance %. That would be problematic.