That is actually quite strange. Town-Investigators usually try to find scum and not investigate a person they read as Town. But I have read that 'strategy' as an excuse from a falsely claimed cop. "I investigated X" ... "But yesterday you said that X was your strongest Town read!" ... (darn, I forgot that!) "Uhm... I wanted to confirm that he really IS Town, so I can take him off my suspect list and focus on the more suspicious players. ... "

Perhaps you are right and we shouldn't take Micro off the list even for Today. Hmmm.

Exactly. That's what yogs was trying to say with that self-hammer. Makes me wonder why he was so eager to point out that Micro is Town? Yogs is an experienced and manipulative player. So his implicit statement "Micro is totally Town, don't look into him too much" makes me suspect Micro rather more than less. ... I know, that's WIFOM. Because of course Yogs could have foreseen this reaction too... but well. In any case a carte blance given by a confirmed scum should not be taken as Town points. At best yog's hint that Micro is Town should be seen as NAI, not as Town-confirmation.

Well, then start sussing. But you forgot one of the main suspects: yourself! ;-) As I said, GR is quite surely Town. Catte less so, but more than you. At least yesterday. Today there isn't anything to analyse from him yet. Which makes me doubt my read from yesterday a bit, but RL may have happened. So I'll wait for his explanation of his absence before voting either him or you. We're in no hurry at the moment.

Eh, i've seen higher insanity plays(town and scum ones)...like ones i've tried for example. ;D

Also it seems to me like something Yogs might propose/pull, and i've seen Micro win a game(s) as scum before(albeit with different tactics) so I know it's possible for them to win while scum.

Mmm, thanks for this tasty wifom.....it really hit the spot.

Jokes aside, Micro isn't cleared for me......though I did give them a few town points for their claim against Yogs. If anyone is leaned close to town for me, it'd be Catte...due to their counter claim against Dogmaus and so forth.

Funny story.....I actually tried that in a prior game(forget which) as town investigator, to clear someone I felt was town....didn't play out so good, iirc.

This

As I said, Catte is often busy with IRL....so them laying low is usually NAI....though they have also slid under the radar due to that as scum in prior games.

Forgot to ask but why are you sure GR is Town? Unless I missed it, I didn't catch why you believe so. He remains quite "eh" to me, and at a higher extent than Catte. Yes it's likely GR really did accidentally self-hammer, but I'm more willing to believe he pulled it off successfully than Microfish of all people to do such an insane Batman gambit and not like, panic internally.

Wait what? Since when was that what he wanted to point out? Even as he crashed his hard, he graced us with a
and hasn't really done much to make Microfish look good (aside from his flip.) And like you said earlier, the self-hammer could've been done to deprive Town of time, or to make you, catte and myself look bad for not being on his wagon, or saving a scumbuddy from doing the voting. So how did you reach that conclusion either?

Exactly. Let me ask you a counter question: do you think that Yogs is very stupid? That he forgot that he would flip scum?

No. The point I'm making is he isn't necessarily saying "Micro is Town, 100% Money Back Guaranteed!" with the self-hammer. I honestly didn't think we'd be debating over Micro being scum pulling such a maneuver as this.

But the observation that Yogs self-hammer implies a Town-Micro came from you. I just pointed out, that if you can see the implication there, so can Yogs and Micro. And Yogs, knowing that he'd flip Scum, might have intended this implication.

I'm just pointing out that you are giving Micro too much Town cred. You base your 'read' on:
1. Scum would never do that!111!!!1! (I have won more than one game as scum using this exact reasoning)
2. Yogs said that he wanted us to lynch him.

Did I miss something that makes Micro 'Town' apart from these two points?

1 is the most important one, 2 not so. And yes you can win a scumgame with this reasoning, but to just do it as early as D2 of all days? And at that point IIRC neither Micro nor yogsloth were sufficiently scumread enough to warrant pulling off such a kamikaze move.

The question of "Why do it?" is really important here. If both of them are scum, then I find very, very, very little reason for them to do and coordinate what happened in tandem. So this has got to be Town on Mafia violence, but I wasn't sure who was the Town and who was the Mafia...up until yogsloth did the most classic scum move, the self-hammer, then it was clear that he's the Mafioso and Micro is with very little doubt the Townie.

Do you mean hammer(not self hammer) in this quoted bit, and do you mean the hammer of Dogmaus on D1?

Also lemme get this straight: you honestly believe a scum!me would be ballsy enough to so vocally hammer Dogmaus on D1 and then bus/vote Yogs (and ask them to hammer themselves) on D2, and then try to win the game all by myself? Really really for reals, then?

*Insert J. Jonah Jameson laughter clip here*

But if you truly think i'd be gutsy enough to try such maneuvers and have somehow improved my game enough to pull them off, then thanks for the compliments I guess. :)

Sorry, I meant yogsloth.

Nothing stopping you vocally hammering Dogmaus and then playing it up to your playstyle, especially with yogsloth on your side and guiding you. And honestly, you bussing yogs and asking him to hammer himself is more believable than Scum Microfish doing this stunt by himself. I'll admit you being ballsy scum is not really up up up there, but I buy that theory more than Scum Microfish.

And at some point, your game just gets improved on a subconscious level, even if you can't remember what happened in the previous one. Unless you mean to tell me you don't even retain that.

I see that differently. Exactly your reasoning demonstrates, why such a ploy would be a good one. Most players would assume that there is no way that Micro and Yogs would stage such a conflict intentionally. Exactly this makes it a high risk, high reward strategy - high reward, because many players, like you, would fall for it. High risk, because there are some nutcases like me, who have employed similar strategies and therefore don't automatically give Micro a 100% Town reading.

If you look at the situation, for a moment, without that "Town guarantee" that Micro is supposed to have, what are we left with?

- Micro - being the only working Town investigator according to Yesterday's information - is still alive. Scum would be stupid to leave him alive after he already flushed out one of them.
- instead Bookwyrm is killed, who was seen as scummy by some. Only Micro admitted, that he saw Book as very towny and that he assumed everyone was seeing Book as such.
- Micro reports, conveniently, to have investigated Bookwyrm. Although he himself said that he saw Bookwyrm as towny.
- Micro didn't investigate GR or me, whom he named as the most scummy players.
- GR, who (in my opinion) got a quite strong Town clearance, is still alive too.

So, how do these facts compare to the assumption that Micro is Town?
- Micro still being alive ... doesn't fit.
- Bookwyrm being dead instead ... doesn't fit. (those who saw Bookwyrm as scummy would have kept him as distraction)
- GR being alive would fit if the more important target Micro were dead. But over Bookwyrm? Not so much.
- Micro's choice of investigation target? ... Doesn't fit at all!


But how do these observation fit the Micro=Scum theory?
- Micro being alive - fits.
- Bookwyrm being dead - fits (because Micro rated him as strong Town)
- GR being alive - fits (because Micro rated him as very scummy, i.e. as possible next mislynch)
- Bookwyrm as choice of investigation target - fits. It spares Micro the bother of either clearing or conflicting with one of the surviving players. Saving the next conflict for Tomorrow when it's LYLO.


So, if you discard the assumption that "A yogs/Micro scum team would never do that", we are left with a situation that fits the Micro=scum theory much better than the Micro=Town theory! Keep in mind, we're talking about 'Town Arsonist' Yogs here as part of the scum team... I can totally see him staging such a high risk/high reward strategy.



Where the fork are you? It's been two days!

@Joe, can you poke Catte a bit with a Catte-prod?

Hmm. After thinking this over, I convinced myself that Micro actually is quite likely scum. His survival, his choice of investigation target, together with his ratings of Bookwyrm and GR ... I might as well put my vote where my suspicion is and start the voting process.

vote Microfish

You seem to be forgetting two things: my poor memory(memory issues run in the family actually, though some get it worse and some don't get it as bad or at all) and my tendency(in part due to poor memory, in part due to laziness, in part due to IRL) to not check in as often to scum chats when i'm scum.

The first thing makes it somewhat difficult to follow/play the game properly as town or scum, and the second thing kinda diminishes the chances to take advantage of any potential help from my scum mate when I play as scum.

Of course, all the above said: feel free to suspect as you will

Well I could if I wrote more notes....sometimes I do, but other times IRL distracts me and I forget to take notes or I just lazily don't write things down.

(aside: I sometimes forget things i've talked about with people on the forums or things others have told me, then tell them/ask the same things again and they inform me I already told/asked them previously)

Good point

Well as I said before, i've done this as a town investigative role in a prior game....still, it does give me pause.

Yeah. my guess is I was left alive as a ML candidate and/or distraction.

(side musing: I wonder if the scum team are kicking themselves for not removing me earlier, given my help to vote off Yogs and all. Eh, they're probably hoping my "different playstyle" will cause me to make the wrong choices and help them win the game)

Yeah, plus we probably shouldn't just sit and twiddle our thumbs forever & then scramble to vote at the last minute lime in prior games.

My guess: if scum isn't Micro, then it's possibly Pooka
(due to things like starting a lone vote wagon on me on D2 and staying on it until EOD, and seemingly thinking that I felt ballsy enough to try pulling off a lone scum game again[even after the one prior game I played as scum with them where I made such "brilliant choices" as having them self hammer so I could try going it alone])

As such, i'll put my money where my mouth is....if I/we mess up and get it wrong and I somehow live till D4 i'll likely vote the other then. But for now:

Vote Micro

=-=-=-=

"May the fates look kindly on our quest for victory and the choices made in pursuit of such" GR says, as he stares for awhile at the bizarro sun(which of course heals one's eyesight the longer one looks at it).

=-=-=-=

Okay. This still sounds very very very ballsy, especially with Microfish at the helm of this lone scumteam theory, but with the way you broke it down it is believable enough. I certainly hadn't considered how the Bookwyrm nightkill ties in with his claimed night action and his opinion of him. I'm not for voting off Microfish right now, though. I say give him a chance to comment on this theory. Especially since it's been what, two days? Since he last showed up.


Well, to be fair:
1) I stayed on the D2 wagon until EoD...not because I wanted to stay on your wagon at EoD, but because yogsloth hammered and so EoD came earlier than I had anticipated. Remember, I suggested to not end D2 early.
2) It was you who suggested me to self hammer in The Shining. I did that self-hammer on your suggestion, not the other way around.

So I believe your reasons aren't exactly strong enough to vote me when given the proper contexts.