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General discussionHow long until Poland goes down the drain?(278 posts)(278 posts)
(278 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted October 29, 2015
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monkeydelarge: This is basically a straw man argument. You are trying to attack socialism by attacking all the evil shit the Soviet Union and China did, which have nothing to do with socialism. ...
They called themselves socialistic. If they aren't who was ever? Then the big difference between capitalism and socialism would be that the first existed for real.

But basically I don't really believe in socialism or capitalism.

I rather try to think in categories like:
- centrally planned economy vs. market economy
- democracy vs. tyranny
- welfare vs. inequal
- conservative vs. liberal
- corrupt vs. transparent and lawful
- majority voting (favors two parties) vs. proportional voting (favors many parties)
- ...

For example China would be an inequal, conservative tyranny with a corruption problem and an interesting mixture of central planning and market economy. Denmark would be a conservative, lawful, welfare democracy. Italy might be a corrupt, inequal, multi-party democracy with a slight tendency to be conservative. ...

This way one is not stuck all the time to decide between capitalism and socialism when for example China kind of proves that you can even combine both in one country (at least officially). China - the capitalistic, socialistic market economy people's republic. Sounds crazy but neverteless exists.
Posted October 29, 2015
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dick1982: You're proving my argument.
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Gremlion: I don't see arguments.
At best you posted equivalent of "Turtles are slower than rabbits"="Socialism development after 1960+ was slower than capitalism".
It doesn't say that system doesn't work.
Enjoy your unpaid internships and 90 hours weeks, which wouldn't let you buy a house in US because they cost $500k upward.
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dick1982: vietcong barely survived the previous financial crash. china basically built ghost cities for the sake of fake GDP growth. they're the worse example of captialism. fool.
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Gremlion: Different cases:
US borrowed money from future generations, built cities on these money, when growth halted they were abandoned. (beating dead horse of Detroit there)

China build ghost cities as preparations for nuclear war.

It's hard to tell when abscess of American debt would pop, but it definitely would try to kill as much debt holders as possible.
i did not post "You're proving my argument." you're quoting the wrong person.

as for using empty chinese GLASS towers for nuclear war... what the flying russian times are you smoking?!? i'm quite convinced you're a troll now. have fun "arguing" with the monkey guy.
Posted October 29, 2015
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immi101: That choice only works under the assumption that there are enough other open jobs readily available. Which is not a given for everybody.
The social & economic pressure to have a job means that more often than not people cannot speak up against bad employers. Which is way the state needs to give some level of protection and limit the power of the employers.
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Emob78: No it doesn't. Jesus Christ, where do you think jobs come from? I'd really love an answer to that one. Do they grow on trees? Are they air-dropped in? If one cannot find a job, one should be free to create his own business, which could then spawn even more jobs. Success is its own multiplier. Millions of people have done it, millions of people have become millionaires because of it.
not sure if you are serious or just trolling? Everybody without a job just creates his own business?
gee, I wonder why nobody has thought of that solution to the unemployment problem ...
Posted October 29, 2015
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TARFU: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

Can you name a "capitalist" country that has ever done anything similar to this, on such a huge scale?
Probably every country had big scale hunger.
Early 30th - is a time of Great Depression, millions of people were jobless and malnourished.
Fast googling "country" hunger 1933:

German chancellor Heinrich Brüning (30 March 1930 – 30 May 1932) got a nickname "The Hunger Chancellor"
http://historicalpassages.blogspot.ru/2011/04/1929-1933-four-fateful-years-1.html
Britain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunger_marches
France http://www.britishpathe.com/video/la-marche-des-chomeurs-aka-hunger-march-to-paris/query/France
Spain https://translate.google.ru/translate?hl=ru&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.historiacocina.com%2Fpaises%2Farticulos%2Fhambre1900.htm
UShttp://depts.washington.edu/depress/hunger_marches.shtml

Yes, USSR had more deaths.
Reasons:
After communists took power Russia was swarmed from every direction.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_intervention_in_the_Russian_Civil_War this attack ended in 1920
Poland attacked Russia and annexed some land
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Soviet_War ended in 1921
China in 1929
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Soviet_conflict_%281929%29

People, which were intended to work on fields served in army, living from eating stored food.
There were crop failures in 1932 and 1934, and you get the idea.
Low production, stocked food eaten, embargo against USSR, so it couldn't purchase food elsewhere.
Looks like it isn't fault of policies, just an antisoviet propaganda.
Posted October 29, 2015
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TARFU: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

Can you name a "capitalist" country that has ever done anything similar to this, on such a huge scale?
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Gremlion: Probably every country had big scale hunger.
Early 30th - is a time of Great Depression, millions of people were jobless and malnourished.
Fast googling "country" hunger 1933:

German chancellor Heinrich Brüning (30 March 1930 – 30 May 1932) got a nickname "The Hunger Chancellor"
http://historicalpassages.blogspot.ru/2011/04/1929-1933-four-fateful-years-1.html
Britain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunger_marches
France http://www.britishpathe.com/video/la-marche-des-chomeurs-aka-hunger-march-to-paris/query/France
Spain https://translate.google.ru/translate?hl=ru&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.historiacocina.com%2Fpaises%2Farticulos%2Fhambre1900.htm
UShttp://depts.washington.edu/depress/hunger_marches.shtml

Yes, USSR had more deaths.
Reasons:
After communists took power Russia was swarmed from every direction.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_intervention_in_the_Russian_Civil_War this attack ended in 1920
Poland attacked Russia and annexed some land
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Soviet_War ended in 1921
China in 1929
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Soviet_conflict_%281929%29

People, which were intended to work on fields served in army, living from eating stored food.
There were crop failures in 1932 and 1934, and you get the idea.
Low production, stocked food eaten, embargo against USSR, so it couldn't purchase food elsewhere.
Looks like it isn't fault of policies, just an antisoviet propaganda.
I figured it out. You work here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/07/magazine/the-agency.html
Posted October 29, 2015
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Emob78: No it doesn't. Jesus Christ, where do you think jobs come from? I'd really love an answer to that one. Do they grow on trees? Are they air-dropped in? If one cannot find a job, one should be free to create his own business, which could then spawn even more jobs. Success is its own multiplier. Millions of people have done it, millions of people have become millionaires because of it.
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immi101: not sure if you are serious or just trolling? Everybody without a job just creates his own business?
gee, I wonder why nobody has thought of that solution to the unemployment problem ...
Probably because government regulations and crap make it increasingly hard to actually open and run a business. Hard to sell lemonade at a stand when the government wants $5,000,000.00 in fees just to start it lul.

Not that many would have to start businesses to give the others jobs yo.

I like chocolate milk.
Posted October 29, 2015
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TARFU: I figured it out. You work here:
And you work here?
https://meduza.io/en/news/2015/02/23/ukraine-is-now-recruiting-an-iarmy

Look, saying that "aarghblargh evil commies wanted to kill themselves" looks stupid if you think about it at least a minute.
"-Hey, father, Stalin said that we shouldn't produce food!
-Hooray, glory to Stalin!"
Considering that Stalin during WW2 faced a choice of exchanging genius German commander Paulus for his son and he chose interests of the country over his own family, I simply don't believe that Stalin systematically worked on damaging Russia.
Yes, his methods were brutal but I'm pretty damn fine with the fact that I'm alive (My grandparents weren't killed by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost ) and I'm not running from drone strikes(like Serbs) thanks to nuclear weapon, also result of Stalin's intuition.
Posted October 29, 2015
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TARFU: I figured it out. You work here:
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Gremlion: And you work here?
https://meduza.io/en/news/2015/02/23/ukraine-is-now-recruiting-an-iarmy

Look, saying that "aarghblargh evil commies wanted to kill themselves" looks stupid if you think about it at least a minute.
"-Hey, father, Stalin said that we shouldn't produce food!
-Hooray, glory to Stalin!"
Considering that Stalin during WW2 faced a choice of exchanging genius German commander Paulus for his son and he chose interests of the country over his own family, I simply don't believe that Stalin systematically worked on damaging Russia.
Yes, his methods were brutal but I'm pretty damn fine with the fact that I'm alive (My grandparents weren't killed by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost ) and I'm not running from drone strikes(like Serbs) thanks to nuclear weapon, also result of Stalin's intuition.
You don't believe it? If you aren't a troll, I think you may have fallen victim to this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalin's_cult_of_personality
Posted October 29, 2015
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Emob78: No it doesn't. Jesus Christ, where do you think jobs come from? I'd really love an answer to that one. Do they grow on trees? Are they air-dropped in? If one cannot find a job, one should be free to create his own business, which could then spawn even more jobs. Success is its own multiplier. Millions of people have done it, millions of people have become millionaires because of it.
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immi101: not sure if you are serious or just trolling? Everybody without a job just creates his own business?
gee, I wonder why nobody has thought of that solution to the unemployment problem ...
Maybe when he was talking about creating your own business, he was talking about this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eb-B1pQKef4
Yeah, with such a business, I'm sure with enough hard work, you can make enough money to avoid a life of extreme poverty. NOT.
Post edited October 29, 2015 by monkeydelarge
Posted October 29, 2015
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monkeydelarge: LOL

"About 21,000 people die every day of hunger or hunger-related causes, according to the United Nations. This is one person every four seconds, as you can see on this display. Sadly, it is children who die most often." from http://www.poverty.com/

And people who are "lazy" are just people who have health problems or mental problems or can't get a job. So better these innocent people are "rewarded" with basic necessities than die or live a miserable existence. The word "lazy" should be removed from the English dictionary because the truth is, there is no such thing as a "lazy" person. It is a word, people like you invented to help them win arguments.
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shoveling: So, no one is lazy and hunger is somehow related to murder... cool story bro.

Sounds like you have been eating corn from the same Jeb Bush diapers as Karl Rove.
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tinyE: No sorry. That would be religion. :D
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shoveling: Marxism is religion.
Capitalism is a religion. It is the worship of money and greed.
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immi101: not sure if you are serious or just trolling? Everybody without a job just creates his own business?
gee, I wonder why nobody has thought of that solution to the unemployment problem ...
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shoveling: Probably because government regulations and crap make it increasingly hard to actually open and run a business. Hard to sell lemonade at a stand when the government wants $5,000,000.00 in fees just to start it lul.

Not that many would have to start businesses to give the others jobs yo.

I like chocolate milk.
Yeah, if only there was nobody to get in the way of me selling lemonade. Who needs a job when you can make $2 to $5 a day resulting in a profit of around $100 a month because lemonade doesn't come out of your ass. https://youtu.be/B5NuuJQT8ZM?t=35s That scene from Eurotrip doesn't apply to most parts of the world. And for those of you who could easily live off $100 a month, keep in mind, I'm talking about around $100 in the USA where the rent for one bedroom is $500 to $600 a month.
Post edited October 29, 2015 by monkeydelarge
Posted October 29, 2015
Meh.
"Millions of killed by Stalin personally" is a mem in Russia, easiest way to play a game "spot the demshizoid" (schizophren-democrats, the ones, which have wet dreams about things like "Leadership of Nemtsov")
http://i.imgur.com/QLvFFNe.png - amount of sentences, declassified paper which was used by Khrushchev to do his report.
Considering amount of traitors, spies, marauders, nazists, rapists, people, suffering from untreated PTSD, caused by 30 years of semi-permanent wars, these number aren't far off from reasonable.

"Corn chatterbox" Khrushchev later proved himself as incompetent fuck, whose inadequate decisions still echoing. Maybe he badmouthed Stalin to look better? :)
Posted October 29, 2015
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shoveling: So, no one is lazy and hunger is somehow related to murder... cool story bro.

Sounds like you have been eating corn from the same Jeb Bush diapers as Karl Rove.

Marxism is religion.
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monkeydelarge: Capitalism is a religion. It is the worship of money and greed.
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shoveling: Probably because government regulations and crap make it increasingly hard to actually open and run a business. Hard to sell lemonade at a stand when the government wants $5,000,000.00 in fees just to start it lul.

Not that many would have to start businesses to give the others jobs yo.

I like chocolate milk.
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monkeydelarge: Yeah, if only there was nobody to get in the way of me selling lemonade. Who needs a job when you can make $2 to $5 a day resulting in a profit of around $100 a month because lemonade doesn't come out of your ass. https://youtu.be/B5NuuJQT8ZM?t=35s Too bad, that scene from Eurotrip doesn't apply to most parts of the world.
Nah

Word
Posted October 29, 2015
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monkeydelarge: Capitalism is a religion. It is the worship of money and greed.

Yeah, if only there was nobody to get in the way of me selling lemonade. Who needs a job when you can make $2 to $5 a day resulting in a profit of around $100 a month because lemonade doesn't come out of your ass. https://youtu.be/B5NuuJQT8ZM?t=35s Too bad, that scene from Eurotrip doesn't apply to most parts of the world.
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shoveling: Nah

Word
You'd have to sell magic lemonade that can make men's penises grow in order to make enough money to not live in extreme poverty.
Posted October 29, 2015
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shoveling: Nah

<a href="http://www.gog.com/forum/general/how_long_until_poland_goes_down_the_drain/post192" class="link_arrow"></a></div><div class="small_avatar_2_h"><img src="//images.gog.com/27cd79a1b5736ba2b2b8f4cda51748a80126177efdeceee3eba4bb3d7b73c5a8_avm.jpg" width="16" height="16" alt="avatar" /></div><span class="quot_text"><span class="quot_user_name">monkeydelarge: </span></span>You'd have to sell magic lemonade that can make men's penises grow in order to make enough money to not live in extreme poverty. <a href="http://www.gog.com/forum/general/how_long_until_poland_goes_down_the_drain/post193" class="link_arrow"></a></div> [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSewCBL4_GQ]k
Posted October 29, 2015
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monkeydelarge: You'd have to sell magic lemonade that can make men's penises grow in order to make enough money to not live in extreme poverty.
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shoveling: <a href="http://www.gog.com/forum/general/how_long_until_poland_goes_down_the_drain/post194" class="link_arrow"></a></div> Something you can listen to and enjoy when you are in the mood for some music. [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3bkJTJ6O9Y]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3bkJTJ6O9Y
Post edited October 29, 2015 by monkeydelarge
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionHow long until Poland goes down the drain?(278 posts)(278 posts)
(278 posts)