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"China" returned 54 posts
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Ancient-Red-Dragon: Within that statement, you are trying two deliver two different, completely antithetical messages:

1. You are asserting that the Chinese government is not at fault and is benevolent and blameless and pure and innocent, because they didn't directly ask GOG to ban the game.

2. You are also asserting that GOG had to ban the game to "ensure their interests"...which is a euphemism that means "GOG felt they needed to ban the game, because they fear that if they did not, then they would make the Chinese government angry with them."

So...my point is, your second premise completely disproves your first one.
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Turbo-Beaver: I don't see any contradiction here. The government is of course not benevolent, they just don't deal with small fish. And nobody in China would have even known about the game being released had it not been for the fact that GOG decided to tell everyone themselves. There's an earlier post by Mori_Yuki that has a quote from GOG's announcement preserved:

That aside the real story can be found on Weibo ... Chinese gamers threatened to boycott CP2077 if Devotion was not removed before it was even added. They also threatened CP2077 because they found signs of promoting Taiwanese independence consciousness ... This is where things stand and this is what GoG had to say about hurting Chinese gamer's feelings when releasing Devotion on their official Weibo page: 「GOG.COM 保證不會做出傷害大家感情的事情,請大家放心」。Which roughly translates to GOG.COM promises not do anything that will hurt everyone's feelings. Please rest assured.
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Turbo-Beaver: What likely happened after the announcement is that GOG faced a predictable backlash on social media as people were trying to one-up one another calling for boycott to demonstrate their patriotic virtues, or something to that effect. Of course the social media are tightly controlled so it'd be possible for censors to stop such messages from spreading but why would they, since (1) people need something to complain about, (2) they were not complaining about the government, (3) it might even be useful (one way to make sure the Party stays in power forever is to convince the people that everyone abroad is out there to get them). But it's not that the government started all this, they just didn't stop it. Maybe the censors helped a bit here and there by deleting a few dissenting voices to make sure everyone really was either on the same page or out of the picture but that's the likely extent of their involvement.

Then, CD Projekt/GOG just panicked and overreacted, taking the decision to delist the game worldwide. If you think about everything they have done so far to maximize Cyberpunk 2077 earnings, it's not really that surprising. They set an impossible deadline, released an incomplete game, told everyone it worked great on consoles, did not provide the console version for reviews, prohibited PC reviewers from showing their own footage, bribed influencers with cameos, etc. I don't want to trash Cyberpunk 2077 because it seems the game isn't really as bad as some portray it to be, and I'm sure it will get better. However, considering the amount of shenanigans surrounding its release, throwing GOG's reputation down the toilet to prevent any possible (however unlikely) boycott of the game in China would be par for the course and is just small potatoes in the grand scheme of things.

Of course the above is just speculation on my part but a scenario like this would explain how GOG could have banned the game to "ensure their interests," while the Chinese government would have been "innocent" with regard to this. And I think it's the most likely scenario. Everyone looking for excuses to put the blame elsewhere (there is even a post where someone blames Visa and MasterCard) is just making things easier for the most obvious culprit.
But the way china rules, with it's information warfare, even if it came from the people, it still came from the government. They're trained and encouraged to be the government's advocates, even in your scenario written above. They compete to virtue signal, which surely comes from a government policy.
low rated
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949801422: I don't use weibo, but GOG also has accounts on other social media. Before deleting it, everyone agreed with their decision.
Everyone? As in everyone in China?

Unless every chinese is truly part of a hive mind(like the memes say), again: *Press X to doubt*

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949801422: Yes, everyone supports removing the game
Really? o.0

I think J Jonah Jameson says it best
Post edited December 20, 2020 by GamezRanker
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Everyone? As in everyone in China?
Let me give you as small lesson of linguistics - "everyone" in 80% of human languages is used as a synonym for "vast majority". In this case "vast majority of Chinese gamers who heard about the game". Because obviously 99% of Chinese population didn't hear about the whole thing nor they give a fuck about it. Even 60% of Chinese gamers probably never heard and don't care. Because world doesn't revolve around one indie game.

Also most gamers in the world don't care about whole thing. Most people in this thread don't care either. There's like a few entitled guys who just go all out because modern trend is red scare 2.0 and "everything China is bad", nothing else.

Unless every chinese is truly part of a hive mind(like the memes say), again: *Press X to doubt*
What modern western people fail to realize is that asian cultures are different from western ones - majority decides, minority accepts. It was in the west before too, from Ancient Greece till late 90s.
Also in general asian cultures are more strict, there are much more dos and don'ts, people are less individualistic and they have much more respect for authorities, not even some persons in power but authorities as entity. It was always like that and always will be. It's THEIR way. Not yours, not mine, but theirs. They were like that for thousands of years when western civilization was still in infancy and will be for many millennia more.
high rated
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Turbo-Beaver: I don't see any contradiction here. The government is of course not benevolent, they just don't deal with small fish. And nobody in China would have even known about the game being released had it not been for the fact that GOG decided to tell everyone themselves. There's an earlier post by Mori_Yuki that has a quote from GOG's announcement preserved:
What likely happened after the announcement is that GOG faced a predictable backlash on social media as people were trying to one-up one another calling for boycott to demonstrate their patriotic virtues, or something to that effect. Of course the social media are tightly controlled so it'd be possible for censors to stop such messages from spreading but why would they, since (1) people need something to complain about, (2) they were not complaining about the government, (3) it might even be useful (one way to make sure the Party stays in power forever is to convince the people that everyone abroad is out there to get them). But it's not that the government started all this, they just didn't stop it. Maybe the censors helped a bit here and there by deleting a few dissenting voices to make sure everyone really was either on the same page or out of the picture but that's the likely extent of their involvement.

Then, CD Projekt/GOG just panicked and overreacted, taking the decision to delist the game worldwide. If you think about everything they have done so far to maximize Cyberpunk 2077 earnings, it's not really that surprising. They set an impossible deadline, released an incomplete game, told everyone it worked great on consoles, did not provide the console version for reviews, prohibited PC reviewers from showing their own footage, bribed influencers with cameos, etc. I don't want to trash Cyberpunk 2077 because it seems the game isn't really as bad as some portray it to be, and I'm sure it will get better. However, considering the amount of shenanigans surrounding its release, throwing GOG's reputation down the toilet to prevent any possible (however unlikely) boycott of the game in China would be par for the course and is just small potatoes in the grand scheme of things.

Of course the above is just speculation on my part but a scenario like this would explain how GOG could have banned the game to "ensure their interests," while the Chinese government would have been "innocent" with regard to this. And I think it's the most likely scenario. Everyone looking for excuses to put the blame elsewhere (there is even a post where someone blames Visa and MasterCard) is just making things easier for the most obvious culprit.
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kohlrak: But the way china rules, with it's information warfare, even if it came from the people, it still came from the government. They're trained and encouraged to be the government's advocates, even in your scenario written above. They compete to virtue signal, which surely comes from a government policy.
This is on point. We really have no idea how Chinese people feel. I mean China has strict control on what is allowed to be said. So on a Chinese social media thing most likely the only ones allowed to speak are the ones with supporting messages to the Chinese governments agenda. Even if they are just a million between a billion people they will seem like the only voice because all other are too afraid to speak and even if they weren't their posts will be deleted.

Even in the west we have a sample of this phenomenon with platforms helping minority opinions they like seem like a bigger thing by promoting the voice of those with such opinion and decreasing those laughing at them. Let alone China that is absolute authoritarianism.

Everyone? As in everyone in China?
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Thunderbringer: Let me give you as small lesson of linguistics - "everyone" in 80% of human languages is used as a synonym for "vast majority". In this case "vast majority of Chinese gamers who heard about the game". Because obviously 99% of Chinese population didn't hear about the whole thing nor they give a fuck about it. Even 60% of Chinese gamers probably never heard and don't care. Because world doesn't revolve around one indie game.

Also most gamers in the world don't care about whole thing. Most people in this thread don't care either. There's like a few entitled guys who just go all out because modern trend is red scare 2.0 and "everything China is bad", nothing else.

Unless every chinese is truly part of a hive mind(like the memes say), again: *Press X to doubt*
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Thunderbringer: What modern western people fail to realize is that asian cultures are different from western ones - majority decides, minority accepts. It was in the west before too, from Ancient Greece till late 90s.
Also in general asian cultures are more strict, there are much more dos and don'ts, people are less individualistic and they have much more respect for authorities, not even some persons in power but authorities as entity. It was always like that and always will be. It's THEIR way. Not yours, not mine, but theirs. They were like that for thousands of years when western civilization was still in infancy and will be for many millennia more.
No no, let him speak for himself. Most people say "most people," at least in english. Unless you haven't been paying attention, people can be quite picky when you're not technically correct about something like this. I'm getting some strong pride vibes off the guy, and I think he should be able to express this pride by sticking his foot in his mouth.
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kohlrak: But the way china rules, with it's information warfare, even if it came from the people, it still came from the government. They're trained and encouraged to be the government's advocates, even in your scenario written above. They compete to virtue signal, which surely comes from a government policy.
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SumofOne: This is on point. We really have no idea how Chinese people feel. I mean China has strict control on what is allowed to be said. So on a Chinese social media thing most likely the only ones allowed to speak are the ones with supporting messages to the Chinese governments agenda. Even if they are just a million between a billion people they will seem like the only voice because all other are too afraid to speak and even if they weren't their posts will be deleted.

Even in the west we have a sample of this phenomenon with platforms helping minority opinions they like seem like a bigger thing by promoting the voice of those with such opinion and decreasing those laughing at them. Let alone China that is absolute authoritarianism.
"Minority." Islam is not a minority, but youtube gives special protections to muslims.

Obviously this guy has a beef, but he's got a pretty good video on this that explains the mental gymnastics involved. https://youtu.be/KFKJZFW_knA
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pippin15: gog is a capitalist entity, and capitalists are unable to grow spines, the almighty dollar rules all
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Thunderbringer: Money talks. Do you know one country where citizens, especially women have very limited rights even by standards of 1800s in Europe, an absolute monarchy. Where you can get sentenced to death for stuff than isn't punishable with smallest fine in 90% of other countries from DPRK to US?
The very same related to the journalist being killed and mutilated? A lot of countries were condemning that act, corporations were saying that they won't be doing business with them. For a month. What was next? Nothing, it was swept under the rug and forgotten. By everyone. Because shweeet contracts.

Also imagine if it will be the game not with derogatory comments about Chinese leader, but bashing some minority. It will be a shitstorm of epic proportions, reddit kids will flood the forum and CDPR social accounts demanding to remove the game INSTANTLY. Because hypocrisy is in human nature. Everyone loves to point fingers at the others forgetting about how tightly they are packed, those skeletons in their closets.
Yeah. Fake activism gets forgotten quickly when the media isn't publishing story after story about it. That's why the government needs to get involved and pass a simple law, no trading with non-democratic nations (or nations that trade with non-democratic nations). Basically just let these authoritarian goverments collapse on themselves. Not that Big Oil would like it, nor any major corporation actually. China is a gold mine of people who will work while starving to death and won't complain no matter what you do to them. Let alone how china ignores all environmental mandates.

The question in this age should be why are we still trading with china, not why should we stop.
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kohlrak: But the way china rules, with it's information warfare, even if it came from the people, it still came from the government. They're trained and encouraged to be the government's advocates, even in your scenario written above. They compete to virtue signal, which surely comes from a government policy.
In principle you're right but it's slightly more complicated. There're rabid jingoistic mobs acting autonomously, always on patrol for all kinds of reasons to start some campaign to criticize, cancel or boycott someone, and foreign brands in particular are always fair game. To the extent that I'm aware, it usually doesn't have to be government-instigated, most of the time they come up with something on their own and support it out of conviction. It perhaps helps that this is one of the few forms of public expression generally permitted.

These people don't just pop out of nowhere of course: they're the product of the education/indoctrination system based on the principles of siege mentality, celebration of victimhood, as well as other assorted grievances, and cultivated through manipulated news narratives. So in a way the political leadership is responsible for all this, just not directly: they plant the seeds and see how things go from there. These people's voices will then either be amplified if what they started could be useful towards some political end (e.g. blaming some foreign business from a country the government wants to put pressure on), or they can get completely muted if the discussion strays towards any inconvenient topics (never question the Party, etc.).

By no means everyone in China is a member of the said group. Most people just want to get by, work hard for a better life, stay out of all this. A lot of Chinese are also very cynical of their political system and ruling class (but the same people are usually well-aware of the political deficiencies in the West either, and they might still be nationalist/ethnocentric). However, if your views are different than the officially-approved narrative, it's best to keep them to yourself. So it's easy to miss the "silent majority" and get the impression that everyone is as described above. And that is exactly what the Party would like you to believe.

Anyway, the bottom line is: I would have never expected an announcement of this game on Chinese social media to be met with any other reaction. Nobody who knows anything about China would. Neither should have GOG. If they run social media accounts in China they should have been well aware they're walking a thin line. This self-inflicted damage could have been easily avoided. But now it's too late, and GOG through their own ineptitude put themselves in a position where they had to choose sides. They clearly made their choice, and now you have to make yours: are you OK with that? I'm not.
Post edited December 20, 2020 by Turbo-Beaver
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kohlrak: But the way china rules, with it's information warfare, even if it came from the people, it still came from the government. They're trained and encouraged to be the government's advocates, even in your scenario written above. They compete to virtue signal, which surely comes from a government policy.
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Turbo-Beaver: In principle you're right but it's slightly more complicated. There're rabid jingoistic mobs acting autonomously, always on patrol for all kinds of reasons to start some campaign to criticize, cancel or boycott someone, and foreign brands in particular are always fair game. To the extent that I'm aware, it usually doesn't have to be government-instigated, most of the time they come up with something on their own and support it out of conviction. It perhaps helps that this is one of the few forms of public expression generally permitted.

These people don't just pop out of nowhere of course: they're the product of the education/indoctrination system based on the principles of siege mentality, celebration of victimhood, as well as other assorted grievances, and cultivated through manipulated news narratives. So in a way the political leadership is responsible for all this, just not directly: they plant the seeds and see how things go from there. These people's voices will then either be amplified if what they started could be useful towards some political end (e.g. blaming some foreign business from a country the government wants to put pressure on), or they can get completely muted if the discussion strays towards any inconvenient topics (never question the Party, etc.).

By no means everyone in China is a member of the said group. Most people just want to get by, work hard for a better life, stay out of all this. A lot of Chinese are also very cynical of their political system and ruling class (but the same people are usually well-aware of the political deficiencies in the West either, and they might still be nationalist/ethnocentric). However, if your views are different than the officially-approved narrative, it's best to keep them to yourself. So it's easy to miss the "silent majority" and get the impression that everyone is as described above. And that is exactly what the Party would like you to believe.

Anyway, the bottom line is: I would have never expected an announcement of this game on Chinese social media to be met with any other reaction. Nobody who knows anything about China would. Neither should have GOG. If they run social media accounts in China they should have been well aware they're walking a thin line. This self-inflicted damage could have been easily avoided. But now it's too late, and GOG through their own ineptitude put themselves in a position where they had to choose sides. They clearly made their choice, and now you have to make yours: are you OK with that? I'm not.
The problem with "it's complicated" is that it often ends up being an excuse for apathy. I get that something's not easy, but if it's the right thing to do, that makes it all the more valuable to do it. Frankly, the point is that China's too big for it's britches, so it needs knocked off it's high horse. The emperor is waltzing around naked. Trying to say X can't do anything, because X would be alone in the battle is basically helping the crocodile eat your friends (customers) hoping that he eats you last (and either way, you're going in the belly).

As for the Chinese, i know it's not a hive mind. I just want this clown to claim it is, so he discredits himself. There's pride in him, pride to the degree that i believe he's being dishonest because his pride is the most important thing to him. This is the thing about the CCP, it's how SARS-CoV(-1) got out of control, it's how SARS-CoV-2 got out of control, and it's how their country consistently becomes it's own parody when being trolled (which apparently isn't often enough).

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GamezRanker: I believe that user meant "the more left leaning pc culture minded types" on social media.
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SumofOne: Exactly what i meant. This excessive political correct people checking everything with diversity points etc are a small minority. Most people dislike this shit and just want to enjoy their entertainment and yet in Twitter etc their circle jerk is promoted in a way that makes them appear like they are more than they are when in reality they would be laughed out of the room.
I have no idea were Muslims came to him. Muslims were no part of any of my thoughts in the least.
Another example of the same thing. Games allude to politics metaphorically so that you can understand the ideas without the cognitive dissonance by being too close to the situation described. The silent majority, too, is another problem: people need to not be afraid to voice their feelings. The average person who hates the social justice shit is keeping their mouth shut because they're afraid of getting mobbed and no one coming to their rescue. It's not unlike the kinds of argumentation we're seeing for GOG capitulating: we have a big bully, and we have people kissing the bully's feet, because no one wants to be the first to stand against the bully and inform him what he can do alone with himself. The thing is, the bully eventually gets bored with only his feet getting kissed, and might want your lunch money, or more. When do you finally draw the line, or do you not? Everyone always seems to have this "line in the sand" where they're sure they and everyone else will join them "if things get that bad," but it never actually manifests. I mean, common, look at the last election in the US.
Post edited December 20, 2020 by kohlrak