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"China" returned 36 posts
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barleyguy: This is a big difference from the way China behaves. (And Germany in some cases.)
Out of interest, can you give an example of such a case with Germany?
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barleyguy: This is a big difference from the way China behaves. (And Germany in some cases.)
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Leroux: Out of interest, can you give an example of such a case with Germany?
Yes. Germany attempted to censor "hate speech" on Twitter and Facebook even for posts that originate outside Germany. There are many articles about it if you would like to research it. Here's one I found with a quick Google search:

https://newrepublic.com/article/147364/verboten-germany-law-stopping-hate-speech-facebook-twitter

I really don't want to derail this thread off of the original topic though, so I otherwise yield when it comes to discussion of this.
If you think about it, the only thing the 50 cent army is doing is making sure that companies don't take corrective action on content they find questionable.

If they do, it won't help anyway, and if they don't, they can at least get support from the people who want the content in the game in the first place.

Pretty nonsensical of China, but at the Chinese level, it's likely more an bureaucratic outcome of being on a list that no one questions more so than anything.
Post edited December 21, 2020 by BitLiz
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RafaelRamus: [...]
I then realized that what is hurting me the most is the lack of transparency on the part of the GOG team. They claim to be doing this because of gamers? What am I to you, GOG, a joke?

Tell us the truth. WE CAN HANDLE THE TRUTH.
who knows? one way of looking at it is that if gOg did go through with it, they could be blocked in China. And there are actaully a lot of gamers (i.e. people who play games....) in China (as it is a big marked). Now, put yourself in their shoes - would you like the possibility of getting gOg blocked? over one game? you will lose all the gOg catalogue, just beacuse they decided to sell a game (maybe even a game you are not interested in) - what would you do?
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RafaelRamus: [...]
I then realized that what is hurting me the most is the lack of transparency on the part of the GOG team. They claim to be doing this because of gamers? What am I to you, GOG, a joke?

Tell us the truth. WE CAN HANDLE THE TRUTH.
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amok: who knows? one way of looking at it is that if gOg did go through with it, they could be blocked in China. And there are actaully a lot of gamers (i.e. people who play games....) in China (as it is a big marked). Now, put yourself in their shoes - would you like the possibility of getting gOg blocked? over one game? you will lose all the gOg catalogue, just beacuse they decided to sell a game (maybe even a game you are not interested in) - what would you do?
I would tell the truth:

"It has come to our attention that there is some ongoing controversy regarding the game Devotion and the Chinese market. We are analyzing the situation and we have decided to not release the game right now because of this and we have no new release date in sight."

I doubt China would block GOG for a statement like that, but I'd be willing to risk it.

People talk about the 1 billion people in China (and many, many of those don't even have a computer and live under the 2 dollars a day mark) forgetting that there are some other billions outside China that may take a stance regarding this kind of stuff.
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amok: who knows? one way of looking at it is that if gOg did go through with it, they could be blocked in China. And there are actaully a lot of gamers (i.e. people who play games....) in China (as it is a big marked). Now, put yourself in their shoes - would you like the possibility of getting gOg blocked? over one game? you will lose all the gOg catalogue, just beacuse they decided to sell a game (maybe even a game you are not interested in) - what would you do?
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RafaelRamus: I would tell the truth:

"It has come to our attention that there is some ongoing controversy regarding the game Devotion and the Chinese market. We are analyzing the situation and we have decided to not release the game right now because of this and we have no new release date in sight."

I doubt China would block GOG for a statement like that, but I'd be willing to risk it.

People talk about the 1 billion people in China (and many, many of those don't even have a computer and live under the 2 dollars a day mark) forgetting that there are some other billions outside China that may take a stance regarding this kind of stuff.
no, i mean, if you was a normal chinese person living in china and like playing games, and you realise gOg moght be blocked for you if gOg release this one game - what would you do?
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Ancient-Red-Dragon: [...]
also completely missing the point...
Post edited December 21, 2020 by amok
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amok: no, i mean, if you was a normal chinese person living in china and like playing games, and you realise gOg moght be blocked for you if gOg release this one game - what would you do?
I don't know enough of chinese society's principles to answer that, nor do i think anyone else does. However, if this were the united states, where i grew up as i actualyl did grow up ,i would be saddened, but I would not take a stance against GOG when the blame rests with my government and my people (for not doing something about the government). I would be on the forums, telling GOG to call my country's bluff, saying that these affairs are not GOG's business, but between the developer and my country.
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amok: who knows? one way of looking at it is that if gOg did go through with it, they could be blocked in China. And there are actaully a lot of gamers (i.e. people who play games....) in China (as it is a big marked). Now, put yourself in their shoes - would you like the possibility of getting gOg blocked? over one game? you will lose all the gOg catalogue, just beacuse they decided to sell a game (maybe even a game you are not interested in) - what would you do?
The Chinese people are effectively censored from knowing what's going on in the world.
Western games and movies are only allowed there if they conform to what the censors allow, Star Wars a movie about bringing down an evil empire is a big nono
Tencent, a PRC controlled company already regulates PRC gaming needs, in the end they won't allow foreign influence (see Mark Suckerberg, Apple etc.).
1.4 billion Chinese isn't worth the 8 billion of the rest of the world, so there is the shareholder argument.

Simply put, you don't deal with the devil, even if he looks like Winnie the Pooh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swuir_7YIPs
Post edited December 21, 2020 by Strijkbout
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amok: also completely missing the point...
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Ancient-Red-Dragon: But your point is that if a bully threatens to hurt someone if the victim of the threat doesn't give into the bully's demands, and if the bully has the power to back up their threat, then the victim must give into the bully's demands, and do whatever they say.

Is that not so? How is what I just incompatible with and/or contradictory to the position that you are pushing?
I agree 100% with your posts, but also, we as Americans are raised from a young age to know our rights and protect our freedom. Chinese people generally have a completely different mindset. I had a good friend from China that moved to the USA. Her parents bought a Chinese restaurant. When she found out I was a techie, she wanted to know the process for getting a license to have a website.

She didn't realize that in America, you don't need a license to have a website. She hadn't been taught about the free speech or the rest of the bill of rights. She hadn't been raised learning about the revolution and how America fought for its freedom. Her parents weren't hippies that went to protests.

Like I said, I'm not disagreeing with the sentiment of your post. I also consistently stand up to bullies even when it's a objectively bad idea, and do everything I can to defend my rights. But you also need to understand that in addition to America having a mostly functional democracy and enumerated civil rights, we are raised to have a mindset that corresponds to that, and people living in China aren't.
Post edited December 21, 2020 by barleyguy
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Ancient-Red-Dragon: But your point is that if a bully threatens to hurt someone if the victim of the threat doesn't give into the bully's demands, and if the bully has the power to back up their threat, then the victim must give into the bully's demands, and do whatever they say.

Is that not so? How is what I just incompatible with and/or contradictory to the position that you are pushing?
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barleyguy: I agree 100% with your posts, but also, we as Americans are raised from a young age to know our rights and protect our freedom. Chinese people generally have a completely different mindset. I had a good friend from China that moved to the USA. Her parents bought a Chinese restaurant. When she found out I was a techie, she wanted to know the process for getting a license to have a website.

She didn't realize that in America, you don't need a license to have a website. She hadn't been taught about the free speech or the rest of the bill of rights. She hadn't been raised learning about the revolution and how America fought for its freedom. Her parents weren't hippies that went to protests.

Like I said, I'm not disagreeing with the sentiment of your post. I also consistently stand up to bullies even when it's a objectively bad idea, and do everything I can to defend my rights. But you also need to understand that in addition to America having a mostly functional democracy and enumerated civil rights, we are raised to have a mindset that corresponds to that, and people living in China aren't.
And how do you bring that change? I mean, if they want to have influence over how we deal with poland, i think it's only fair that their culture is a stake in the game, too.
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amok: who knows? one way of looking at it is that if gOg did go through with it, they could be blocked in China. And there are actaully a lot of gamers (i.e. people who play games....) in China (as it is a big marked). Now, put yourself in their shoes - would you like the possibility of getting gOg blocked? over one game? you will lose all the gOg catalogue, just beacuse they decided to sell a game (maybe even a game you are not interested in) - what would you do?
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RafaelRamus: I would tell the truth:

"It has come to our attention that there is some ongoing controversy regarding the game Devotion and the Chinese market. We are analyzing the situation and we have decided to not release the game right now because of this and we have no new release date in sight."
Far as I know this is not the (full?) truth though. I have seen evicence on GOG reddit (and I think in forum here too) that GOG made a placating Weibo post promising to "not hurt feelings" or sth like that. Unfortunately I dont have a link. It was also claimed that soon after Chinese made the whole thing vanish from Weibo or sth like that. It can probably be still found somewhere on https://old.reddit.com/r/gog/
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barleyguy: I agree 100% with your posts, but also, we as Americans are raised from a young age to know our rights and protect our freedom. Chinese people generally have a completely different mindset. I had a good friend from China that moved to the USA. Her parents bought a Chinese restaurant. When she found out I was a techie, she wanted to know the process for getting a license to have a website.

She didn't realize that in America, you don't need a license to have a website. She hadn't been taught about the free speech or the rest of the bill of rights. She hadn't been raised learning about the revolution and how America fought for its freedom. Her parents weren't hippies that went to protests.

Like I said, I'm not disagreeing with the sentiment of your post. I also consistently stand up to bullies even when it's a objectively bad idea, and do everything I can to defend my rights. But you also need to understand that in addition to America having a mostly functional democracy and enumerated civil rights, we are raised to have a mindset that corresponds to that, and people living in China aren't.
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kohlrak: And how do you bring that change? I mean, if they want to have influence over how we deal with poland, i think it's only fair that their culture is a stake in the game, too.
Ultimately, the people of China need to change their country. Nobody can oppress over a billion people if they don't let it happen. But what we need to do in this situation and similar situations is keep the censorship and totalitarian mindset of China from affecting us in the rest of the world.

GOG needs to understand if they choose to earn money in China, they need to do it without affecting the rest of us, or many of us may choose to no longer participate.

Over these last few days, I've gone from a fan of GOG and CD Project, to disgusted. I really want to spend $7 on the things I don't have in the Lucasarts pack, and haven't because I feel dirty spending money here. GOG needs to realize that the only market advantage they have over other services is their consistent stand on DRM and world markets, and if they lost that, there's no reason for many of us to come here anymore.
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kohlrak: And how do you bring that change? I mean, if they want to have influence over how we deal with poland, i think it's only fair that their culture is a stake in the game, too.
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barleyguy: Ultimately, the people of China need to change their country. Nobody can oppress over a billion people if they don't let it happen. But what we need to do in this situation and similar situations is keep the censorship and totalitarian mindset of China from affecting us in the rest of the world.
If there is anything good that comes from SARS-CoV-2, and the lockdowns which did nothing, it would be the fact that this point become tangible to everyone, especially in the west. Hell, the lockdown dictators were openly supporting the Floyd riots, which why so many conservatives are unfortunately not taking the damn thing seriously, because people on the whole (to be clear: regardless of political identity) tend to 180 when they realize they've been lied to, rather than doing their own investigations.

My girlfriend just woke up (while typing this post) after a 4 hour nap, the most constant sleep she has gotten in half a week, because for some unknown reason, the bug turns you into an insomniac more than other bugs. She's a night shifter, so she's normally up by now. She tested positive and it's been nothing but a nightmare since she got it, between her congenital prexisting conditions, the risk factors from her employment, etc. This is weighing heavy on me, and i'm clean.
GOG needs to understand if they choose to earn money in China, they need to do it without affecting the rest of us, or many of us may choose to no longer participate.

Over these last few days, I've gone from a fan of GOG and CD Project, to disgusted. I really want to spend $7 on the things I don't have in the Lucasarts pack, and haven't because I feel dirty spending money here. GOG needs to realize that the only market advantage they have over other services is their consistent stand on DRM and world markets, and if they lost that, there's no reason for many of us to come here anymore.
I get that, but i don't think the boycotts are the solution. Corporations seem to respond more to refund requests, account cancellations, and bad reviews, which GOG can't feel right now, due to CP2077. Instead, i think it might be wiser to bug the bully itself.
high rated
"GOG, please be more transparent about the China deal"
the point of censorship is exactly the opposite of being transparent, so good luck getting any info from gog now
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Strijkbout: [...]
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kohlrak: [...]
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Ancient-Red-Dragon: [...]
no, my point is only bout "gamers", as you all assume that there are no "gamers", while there may be some as well

If I tried to put myself in their shoes, I would have gently put my arm aorund gOg's shoulder and said: "listen, mate, I know this is not the right thing to do, but if you go through with this, there is a chance that Winnie may find out and he may block you here. If they do, then I lose access to my collection, I can not buy any gamers from you anymore, and I can no longer get updates, and I just bought CP2077, for Frigg's sake, it would take at least two years before it is patched up to a playable state. Can't you, you know, not do this? Please?"

so yes, there may have been some response from people who actually play games in China as well, who would not like to see this happening. Things are most likely mot as black and white as you want them to be, but there are many shades of grey as well...
Post edited December 21, 2020 by amok