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General discussion GOG, please be more transparent about the China deal(36 posts)(36 posts)
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Posted December 18, 2020
high rated
It's pretty gross that they used "messages from gamers" as an excuse when it's clear they don't want to risk their China money.

Just man up and say it.
I'll still not support you but at least you can keep some dignity other than embarrassing yourself.
Posted December 18, 2020
low rated
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RafaelRamus: It looks bad, really bad.

I wasn't even going to spend any more time here, I felt I was done with it all - no longer a customer - but then I kind of reconsidered. I mean, I'm still not buying anything until this is addressed but, after some reading, I decided to make a last stand before going away for good.

I came across this post:

"After receiving many messages from gamers, we have decided not to list the game in our store." - we don't know what those messages were, we just assumed it was angry Pooh-fans... Could also have been Chinese GOG customer who are afraid of losing access to their accounts if GOG put themselves in the spotlight of Chinese authorities.
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RafaelRamus: To which I replied:

If that is the case, GOG better tell us (I would be OK with that). Because right now this looks bad, really bad.

I have over 600 games here in this site, many of those I'm probably never even going to play, that's how much I decided to support this project. I don't want to go back to my old days of piracy, but these companies are not making my life easy with such s... policies.

Epic is hard to swallow, Steam in nearly as evil, now GOG bends the knees to Chinese threats? Nowhere to run it seems.
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RafaelRamus: I then realized that what is hurting me the most is the lack of transparency on the part of the GOG team. They claim to be doing this because of gamers? What am I to you, GOG, a joke?

Tell us the truth. WE CAN HANDLE THE TRUTH.
The Truth is, the game was removed from steam over a year ago because the CCP demanded it... and was removed from GOG for the same reason. China has massive amounts of control in our world and corporations will not risk losing the chinese market when the CCP says "do this which affects everyone in the world, or you cannot sell your goods here"
Posted December 18, 2020
What's there to be transparent about? They got inundated with complaints from a mix of sock puppet social media accounts and rabid pro-CCP activists, and probably got threatened with being banned in China.
Posted December 18, 2020
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IAmBored2: The Truth is, the game was removed from steam over a year ago because the CCP demanded it.
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mm324: As has been pointed out many times since all of these discussions started, the dev removed their own game from steam. Unlike the case here where the store (gog) is the one who decided the game wouldn't be for sale.
The steam version was pulled off cuz the publisher （In China who also the one for steam verison）got their publisher license revoked due to the game content.
Posted December 18, 2020
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mm324: As has been pointed out many times since all of these discussions started, the dev removed their own game from steam. Unlike the case here where the store (gog) is the one who decided the game wouldn't be for sale.
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wuxu1980: The steam version was pulled off cuz the publisher （In China who also the one for steam verison）got their publisher license revoked due to the game content.
I thought the dev pulled their game from steam prior to the publisher getting their license revoked. But either way the fact is that steam didn't force the removal of the game, it was the devs who did it.
Posted December 18, 2020
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Nereosis: It's pretty gross that they used "messages from gamers" as an excuse when it's clear they don't want to risk their China money.
Seriously.
Posted December 18, 2020
This is, quite honestly, the exact same situation Blizzard found themselves in. They saw the dollar signs in their eyes for all the money they could make by selling in China, and left their beliefs behind. And then they wrote some mealy mouthed non-apology meant to appease the people who were upset while still not sacrificing the dollar signs.
Posted December 18, 2020
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wuxu1980: The steam version was pulled off cuz the publisher （In China who also the one for steam verison）got their publisher license revoked due to the game content.
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mm324: I thought the dev pulled their game from steam prior to the publisher getting their license revoked. But either way the fact is that steam didn't force the removal of the game, it was the devs who did it.
The fact that they need a license to publish a game is pretty sick to start with.
Posted December 18, 2020
high rated
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RafaelRamus: I then realized that what is hurting me the most is the lack of transparency on the part of the GOG team. They claim to be doing this because of gamers? What am I to you, GOG, a joke?

Tell us the truth. WE CAN HANDLE THE TRUTH.
This, absolutely. While I´m infuriated by GOG´s decision itself, what probably irritates me most is their supposed ´explanation´ about ´messages from gamers´. Why not just straight out say the reason or at least frame it in a more diplomatic and ´optimistic´ manner (e.g. "we have decided not to list the game in our store AT THE MOMENT")? They didn´t even bother to include an ´unfortunately´ or an apology in there! Whoever wrote/decided on that tweet should get immediately sacked and never work in PR again.

This is the second time GOG has pissed me off in the past few months with their PR. First with their release of Konami games in September, which are not available in Japan and several other Asian countries (though that´s on Konami´s behalf), yet GOG doesn´t bother to mention that or reply to your inquiries on that matter (on a side note, Wolfenstein II also doesn´t show up for me here, I wonder why...), and now this.

Is the Chinese market really that significant for GOG as it is for, say, Steam? If so, why not just block the sale of the game in China (they obviously can do that). And what about Red Candle Games themselves? Haven´t they patched the Xinnie the Pooh thing out since the game got pulled off Steam last year? If it´s just this one thing (which non-Chinese reading players won´t even notice), the absence of which - from what I understand - wouldn´t harm the overall atmosphere, story, or gameplay experience, why would it be a problem to sell a patched version of the game? I´d very much rather have the game available without one Xinnie the Pooh reference than not have it available at all. They could have just postponed it´s release after CP2077 GOTY comes out if that´s the issue :P

All in all, I´m appalled by GOG´s behaviour towards both its users as well as towards RCG as a business partner and developer. I wonder if they´ll at least have the guts to apologize and come clean...

PS: Devotion went from some 500 to 6800+ wishes on the wishlist within 24 hours. How´s that for ´messages from gamers´, c*nts?
Post edited December 18, 2020 by Rimland23
Posted December 19, 2020
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Rimland23: Is the Chinese market really that significant for GOG as it is for, say, Steam? If so, why not just block the sale of the game in China (they obviously can do that). And what about Red Candle Games themselves? Haven´t they patched the Xinnie the Pooh thing out since the game got pulled off Steam last year? If it´s just this one thing (which non-Chinese reading players won´t even notice), the absence of which - from what I understand - wouldn´t harm the overall atmosphere, story, or gameplay experience, why would it be a problem to sell a patched version of the game? I´d very much rather have the game available without one Xinnie the Pooh reference than not have it available at all. They could have just postponed it´s release after CP2077 GOTY comes out if that´s the issue :P

All in all, I´m appalled by GOG´s behaviour towards both its users as well as towards RCG as a business partner and developer. I wonder if they´ll at least have the guts to apologize and come clean...

PS: Devotion went from some 500 to 6800+ wishes on the wishlist within 24 hours. How´s that for ´messages from gamers´, c*nts?
Im not convinced % of chinese customers is significant. if anything its smaller than some make it out to be. Im going to assume many games dont even have a chinese translation. Im going to assume there is a very healthy pirate community (probably bigger than many think) over there as well considering how not well off the majority of the population seems to be.There was a breakdown of the demographic a long while back ....anyone remember it?.
I dont know much about Devotion but i'd buy the game out of spite vs way China bots (whatever probably bots linked back to CCP in some way or form) and promote the crap out of the game to friends.
Posted December 20, 2020
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USERNAME:gargus#Q&_^Q&Q#GROUP:4This new trend of censorship as to not offend anyone is maddeng, and infuriating.
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You seem to be implying that political censorship is normal and acceptable. It's not, and never will be. You also seem to be implying that China is just like other countries. It's not.

America specifically absolutely does not have legally required censorship. We have strong free speech protections. The only things that are not allowed are child pornography, copyright infringement, and slander. With the exception of those you can publish literally whatever you want, with no license or permission or legal repercussions.
Posted December 20, 2020
high rated
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USERNAME:gargus#Q&_^Q&Q#GROUP:4This new trend of censorship as to not offend anyone is maddeng, and infuriating.
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Australian here - when our government acts on having games banned here, they don't insist that said games be banned across the whole world. BIG difference.

Furthermore, generally, when games are refused classification here, they are given the chance to try again after removing the offending materials... Which Red Candle HAS ALREADY DONE! This is nothing like the situation in Australia, this is just China holding onto a childish grudge and GOG playing right into their hands for monetary gain; it's disgusting, it's unacceptable. And from CD Projekt in particular, it's beyond disappointing.
Post edited December 20, 2020 by dycaite
Posted December 20, 2020
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barleyguy: You seem to be implying that political censorship is normal and acceptable. It's not, and never will be. You also seem to be implying that China is just like other countries. It's not.

America specifically absolutely does not have legally required censorship. We have strong free speech protections. The only things that are not allowed are child pornography, copyright infringement, and slander. With the exception of those you can publish literally whatever you want, with no license or permission or legal repercussions.
You are wrong on both accounts. The post I was replying to implied that this was a case of people being offended and wanting to take something down, and that is not the case. It's the law in a totalitarian state. You don't want to mess that up.

And while America has this supposed protection of free speech, not every country does the same. Totalitarian or not.
Posted December 20, 2020
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dycaite: ... this is just China holding onto a childish grudge
That is exactly true. The game was "lèse majesté" and even if they removed the content in question, that "crime" was committed and that doesn't go away.

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dycaite: ... and GOG playing right into their hands for monetary gain.
Well, that's what companies do. And must do if they have to answer to shareholders, like CD Projekt. It's simply capitalism.

With the gray status of GOG in China (no license...) and the - from what I hear - good sales of CP2077 there, they're in no position to piss off Chinese authorities in any way. And they can't even openly talk about it, because their sales there aren't completely legal.

Of course, pissing off their customers by blaming "gamers" was beyond silly. My guess would be short circuit panic reaction when the shit hit the fan.
Posted December 20, 2020
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USERNAME:barleyguy#Q&_^Q&Q#GROUP:4#Q&_^Q&Q#LINK:22#Q&_^Q&Q#You seem to be implying that political censorship is normal and acceptable. It's not, and never will be. You also seem to be implying that China is just like other countries. It's not.

America specifically absolutely does not have legally required censorship. We have strong free speech protections. The only things that are not allowed are child pornography, copyright infringement, and slander. With the exception of those you can publish literally whatever you want, with no license or permission or legal repercussions.#Q&_^Q&Q#LINK:22#Q&_^Q&Q#
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What primarily bothered me about your post was that you bundled the US in with the middle east, Japan, and Germany when it comes to legally required censorship. The US does not have legally required censorship. We do have game ratings, but they are performed by a private company and are completely voluntary. If a publisher doesn't want to have their game rated, they can still publish it. Though Walmart probably won't stock it on their shelves in that case, which gives companies a financial incentive to be rated and self censor.

Also, Dycaite was absolutely correct in that countries like Australia and Japan do not try to perform censorship outside their own national borders. This is a big difference from the way China behaves. (And Germany in some cases.) They seem to think that if they are banning something, it needs to be banned everywhere, not just inside their country.

(The US does push their standards of Copyright on other countries, which is actually a form of censorship. But that's a completely different topic than censoring political speech.)

Anyhow, sorry for assuming you feel censorship is acceptable based on your post. But you didn't say it isn't.

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dycaite: ... this is just China holding onto a childish grudge
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toxicTom: That is exactly true. The game was "lèse majesté" and even if they removed the content in question, that "crime" was committed and that doesn't go away.

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dycaite: ... and GOG playing right into their hands for monetary gain.
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toxicTom: Well, that's what companies do. And must do if they have to answer to shareholders, like CD Projekt. It's simply capitalism.

With the gray status of GOG in China (no license...) and the - from what I hear - good sales of CP2077 there, they're in no position to piss off Chinese authorities in any way. And they can't even openly talk about it, because their sales there aren't completely legal.

Of course, pissing off their customers by blaming "gamers" was beyond silly. My guess would be short circuit panic reaction when the shit hit the fan.
If their excuse is answering to shareholders, they should have a vote in their next shareholders meeting that says "Do you want to engage in censorship in order to appease the Chinese government?" That would show how the shareholders really feel. In general I think companies doing reprehensible crap and blaming it on the shareholders is only a valid excuse if they actually asked their shareholders what they think.
Post edited December 20, 2020 by barleyguy
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Community
General discussion GOG, please be more transparent about the China deal(36 posts)(36 posts)
(36 posts)