Posted May 05, 2021
You're conveniently ignoring that I raised it first in post 402.
nmillar
↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A
Registered: Feb 2009
From United Kingdom
GymHenson
Dearest of all my friends
Registered: Apr 2020
From United States
Posted May 05, 2021
Leaning Town: Lifthrasil, blotunga
Leansing Scum: GymHenson, Bookwyrm, Microfish_1
Oh crap...you're right...missed that(or skimmed/read it and forgot about it).
+++
To everyone: disregard my suspicion of Nmillar for "copying" lift several posts back.
nmillar
↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A
Registered: Feb 2009
From United Kingdom
Posted May 05, 2021
Lifthrasil picked up on ZFR's odd turn of phrase.
ZFR: I think when Town are moronic enough to end the Day on a No-Lynch when they shouldn't, then they deserve all the bad consequences. But it does happen here often enough on GOG, so let's keep that free NL as a safety net. 
Lifthrasil: Hmm. If I would want to get nit-picky, I could make a case out of you saying 'they deserve all the bad consequences' and not 'we deserve all the bad consequences'. Don't you include yourself in 'Town'? ;-) More town points for Lift.
GymHenson chimes in with his view of day chat, and it doesn't correlate with what others have said.
GymHenson: I was saying that day chat would benefit the better mafia players....if I were scum it wouldn't be much help.....as I am a perpetual greenhorn player and all. Also when scum and we have day chat I sometimes either forget to use it or am not online at the same time as my scum mate, making it even less useful. Good catch by GymHenson on Lifthrasil's unvote of ZFR (I'd also missed Pookina's unvote).
GymHenson: If I may ask....why did you remove your vote on ZFR earlier(post 39) when Pookina had removed their vote 2 hours before that(post 35)? Didn't you see it? Interesting question from Microfish_1. Has Bookwyrm627 been as aggressive this game?
Microfish_1: to those who know: the last time i saw bookwyrm play he was very...aggressive as town. is he as aggressive as scum? blotunga defends ZFR's unvote.
Microfish_1: to those who know: the last time i saw bookwyrm play he was very...aggressive as town. is he as aggressive as scum? And in the same post some useful thoughts about NL.
blotunga: About the no lynch discussion - meh, not really something we should strive for. Scum probably would happily agree to no lynch, free NK without any info for town from the wagons. Might have to go back through everything again later and see who was for / against NL on D1.
Bookwyrm627 joins myself and GymHenson in the "not forming my own opinions" club.
Bookwyrm627: And it looks like Lift is going to say everything I want to say this game. Maybe I should ask him to ghost write for me. ZFR outlines his reasons for suspecting GymHenson.
ZFR: He's played 13 consecutive games before this one, he knows what RVS is, yet instead of taking Bookwyrm's post for the RVS that it is, he's "analysing" if it's Town Bookwyrm catching scum or Scum Bookwyrm shading. ZFR follows up with his bragging rights post.
Then changes his mind in the next post.
And that's page 2 done.
So, despite GymHenson noticing that Lifthrasil unvoted ZFR after Pookina had already done so (town points to Pookina for that action), he still gains more scum points for having the opposite opinion to everyone else that's weighed in regarding day chat.
Bookwyrm627 gains scum points for possibly not being as aggressive as he normally would be if playing town (will need to verify this), and choosing to go along with whatever Lifthrasil says rather than forming his own opinions.
So, nothing has changed in regards to town / scum leans.
Leaning Town: Lifthrasil, blotunga
Leaning Scum: GymHenson, Bookwyrm627, Microfish_1
I already had you as leaning scum, and that opinion hasn't changed, hence "unmoved".
GymHenson chimes in with his view of day chat, and it doesn't correlate with what others have said.
Bookwyrm627 joins myself and GymHenson in the "not forming my own opinions" club.
Then changes his mind in the next post.
And that's page 2 done.
So, despite GymHenson noticing that Lifthrasil unvoted ZFR after Pookina had already done so (town points to Pookina for that action), he still gains more scum points for having the opposite opinion to everyone else that's weighed in regarding day chat.
Bookwyrm627 gains scum points for possibly not being as aggressive as he normally would be if playing town (will need to verify this), and choosing to go along with whatever Lifthrasil says rather than forming his own opinions.
So, nothing has changed in regards to town / scum leans.
Leaning Town: Lifthrasil, blotunga
Leaning Scum: GymHenson, Bookwyrm627, Microfish_1
I already had you as leaning scum, and that opinion hasn't changed, hence "unmoved".
blotunga
GrumpyOldGamers.CyringOutMiserably
Registered: Apr 2012
From Other
Posted May 05, 2021
Not sure if I'm letting myself being buddied up, but nmillar is finally making some sense here in his past couple of posts.
vote GymHenson
That's a second L-2 if I'm not mistaken.
vote GymHenson
That's a second L-2 if I'm not mistaken.
PookaMustard
モニカ。モニカだけ。
Registered: Jun 2013
From Egypt
Posted May 05, 2021
Hey, do you know what's even better about GH's daychat opinion? It's based off his experience using daychat...ON DISCORD. He didn't have a quicktopic, he had real-time scumchat, and yet couldn't use it to its fullest extent.
"Here's Jooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooohnny!!" -Jack Torrance, The Shining, 1980
dedoporno
A bloody pirate!
Registered: Apr 2012
From Bulgaria
Posted May 05, 2021
VOTE COUNT
GymHenson 3 - Pookina (#332), nmillar (#372), blotunga (#424)
Lifthrasil 1 - Microfish_1 (#353)
nmillar 3 - Lifthrasil (#378), Bookwyrm627 (#389), GymHenson (#400)
trentonlf 1 - Microfish_1 (#364)
Not voting: Catte
With 9 players it takes 5 votes to achieve a lynch.
GymHenson and nmillar are closest to lynch at L-2.
D2 ends in just under 1.5 days.
GymHenson 3 - Pookina (#332), nmillar (#372), blotunga (#424)
Lifthrasil 1 - Microfish_1 (#353)
nmillar 3 - Lifthrasil (#378), Bookwyrm627 (#389), GymHenson (#400)
trentonlf 1 - Microfish_1 (#364)
Not voting: Catte
With 9 players it takes 5 votes to achieve a lynch.
GymHenson and nmillar are closest to lynch at L-2.
D2 ends in just under 1.5 days.
nmillar
↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A
Registered: Feb 2009
From United Kingdom
Posted May 05, 2021
ZFR reveals his theory.
ZFR: Here is my theory:
After a long break GH drew scum and Bookwyrm is his partner. So GH makes the decision that he should distance himself. Only, like his bReadcrUmbing, he does it in a bit of a hamfisted way right off the bat. Bookwyrm has to reply in kind.
A couple of other things that smelled about Bookwyrm:
Bookwyrm627: Yo Lift, if you're scum, could you do me a favor and just kill me tonight? This makes me sad. ZFR: A bit LAMISTY...
(the second one has an AtE that I don't like: people saying 'if that's how we're playing then just lynch me' makes me feel very guilty that I'm detrimental to their enjoyment of the game.)
But these are just very minor things, and in themselves would probably not mean much.
Anyway, there is my hypothesis: GH and Bookwyrm are the Mafia team and you heard it here first. 83 hrs after game started. And follows it up a few posts later.
ZFR: That's not what you did here. You didn't "catch" BW on a slip or confession. You accused his RVS of being a shade attempt.
Also, you haven't done such firstpost hunting in the previous games you were playing... Sorry, but what you did does look like distance attempt at worst and shading of Town!Bookwyrm at best. Pookina weighs in on the GymHenson / ZFR situation.
Pookina: You know, I usually don't take action on Day 1 (or take it late anyway) because it's the most pointless day of all and it has the highest likelihood of a mislynch, but this persistent questioning and bringing up of ZFR "tunneling" seems to me that, besides it ironically* being tunneling on ZFR himself, also feels like a shallow attempt to subconsciously shade him in our minds. ZFR follows up on GymHenson's contradictions.
ZFR: Wait, so which one is it? First you're trying to convince me your post was almost 100% not serious, now you're saying you wanted to test reactions? That makes no sense.
You can't have it both ways. You can't test reaction to your post if your post is not serious because reactions to non-serious posts are meaningless. If your post was not serious than what kind of reaction where you testing for? "lol" "haha" "very funny"? Lifthrasil joins in on the contradictory nature of GymHenson.
Lifthrasil: That is actually a good point. GH suspecting Boowyrm early because of a RVS post looked, to me, like the usual GH quirkiness. His tunneling on ZFR while accusing ZFR of tunneling is also not unusual. But his defense against ZFR's questions starts to look more and more off and here ZFR caught him at an acual self-contradiction. ZFR gets a town vibe from GymHenson, but doesn't specify why.
ZFR: Well, looks like that's another wrong theory. I got a Town tell from GH. Could be scum GH improving his game, but I don't think so.
Lift's latest is giving me bad vibes. He's admitting I have a point against GH but is keeping a vote on catte because... catte's not paying attention to the OP? ZFR then sort of explains it.
ZFR: Anyway, here it is. I probably should get AF for better iso, but I don't like installing third party scripts
"I shall gladly have a slight chuckle from the sidelines should I get lynched."
GH has made a similar comment in all recent games he was Town, except ACME one.
But... he was only scum, in Shining and NRA both before he started making such statement. There is quite a bit of back-and-forth between GymHenson and ZFR on page 3 that I haven't included, as it doesn't really add much to the conversation that the quotes above have already done.
I forgot to include Pookina in the below earlier.
Leaning Town: Lifthrasil, blotunga, Pookina
Leaning Scum: GymHenson, Bookwyrm627, Microfish_1
Pookina: If you refer to the Shining game, where he and I were the mafiosi, there were times when I needed his input on a matter but I simply couldn't find him online. AFAIK there were even times he was posting in the thread while I was like "oh gemrunner where are you?". So I don't think his opinion about daychat is anything more than NAI. That's a fair point.
After a long break GH drew scum and Bookwyrm is his partner. So GH makes the decision that he should distance himself. Only, like his bReadcrUmbing, he does it in a bit of a hamfisted way right off the bat. Bookwyrm has to reply in kind.
A couple of other things that smelled about Bookwyrm:
(the second one has an AtE that I don't like: people saying 'if that's how we're playing then just lynch me' makes me feel very guilty that I'm detrimental to their enjoyment of the game.)
But these are just very minor things, and in themselves would probably not mean much.
Anyway, there is my hypothesis: GH and Bookwyrm are the Mafia team and you heard it here first. 83 hrs after game started.
Also, you haven't done such firstpost hunting in the previous games you were playing... Sorry, but what you did does look like distance attempt at worst and shading of Town!Bookwyrm at best.
You can't have it both ways. You can't test reaction to your post if your post is not serious because reactions to non-serious posts are meaningless. If your post was not serious than what kind of reaction where you testing for? "lol" "haha" "very funny"?
Lift's latest is giving me bad vibes. He's admitting I have a point against GH but is keeping a vote on catte because... catte's not paying attention to the OP?
"I shall gladly have a slight chuckle from the sidelines should I get lynched."
GH has made a similar comment in all recent games he was Town, except ACME one.
But... he was only scum, in Shining and NRA both before he started making such statement.
I forgot to include Pookina in the below earlier.
Leaning Town: Lifthrasil, blotunga, Pookina
Leaning Scum: GymHenson, Bookwyrm627, Microfish_1
Lifthrasil
Bring the GOG-Downloader back!
Registered: Apr 2011
From Germany
Posted May 05, 2021
GymHenson 3 - Pookina (#332), nmillar (#372), blotunga (#424)
Lifthrasil 1 - Microfish_1 (#353)
nmillar 3 - Lifthrasil (#378), Bookwyrm627 (#389), GymHenson (#400)
trentonlf 1 - Microfish_1 (#364)
Not voting: Catte
With 9 players it takes 5 votes to achieve a lynch.
GymHenson and nmillar are closest to lynch at L-2.
D2 ends in just under 1.5 days.
nmillar
↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A
Registered: Feb 2009
From United Kingdom
Posted May 05, 2021
Lifthrasil has turned his attention to Catte, who has been very inactive throughout this game.
Lifthrasil: First I thought Catte's vote was a joke. But then he doubled down and made Joe's absence his reason for leaving the vote where it is. That looks to me as if he didn't care whom he voted and then used the percieved absence of Joe as a convenient excuse to turn the RVS-vote a bit more serious. Which Bookwyrm627 immediately argues.
Bookwyrm627: Your interpretation of this event makes my head hurt, because (to my mind) it seems like a nonsensical chain of logic on your part. Counter-intuitively, this leads me to think you might be town because scum!you wouldn't be reaching like this. Microfish_1 posts this interesting comment. Perhaps seeking to defend himself for not playing as he normally would as town?
Microfish_1: Hmmmm... I know I sometimes lack consistency as town (you can see this in my previous town games) because I derail my train of thought from Day to Day or even on the same day....sometimes even in the same argument. >:(
How accurate is your gut, historically? Oh, GymHenson ... what is the point of this?
GymHenson: That aside, a bit of musing and a question: if there were two scum factions in a game(i mean in general) and they didn't know each others members, then they would be somewhat blind in a way, wouldn't they? More town points for Pookina. History does suggest that town are generally more inattentive than scum, as the latter are trying harder to blend in.
Pookina: Complacency or inattentiveness in the games I played is a trait I've seen in both camps, but in my personal experience I see the opposite: town are more careless and inattentive than scum a lot of the time. Remember that time I derpcleared myself by saying we were hunting for three scumbuddies when it was explicitly stated to be two? Not that this couldn't be abused by scum, mind you, but I don't see enough precedence to make it anything more than NAI. Catte arrives and explains the inattentiveness.
my name is capitayn catte: And yes, me thinking Joe was playing had nothing to do with anything real life. I did read some of the OP, I just didn't pay attention to the player list. I usually don't, because I'll already be aware of who is playing from following the sign up thread. The difference here is the long time span between the sign ups and the game starting. Which Lifthrasil accepts.
The rest of page 4 contains a number of posts about FlockeSchnee requesting a replacement, and Lifthrasil mis-understanding my reply.
Lifthrasil: Upon re-reading I wonder: is this true? Or do you use your relative new-ness as cover to try to fly under the radar? Or is it true AND you use it as as cover? Getting towards the half-way point, and no change to my leans, though I am starting to have doubts about where I've placed Lifthrasil and GymHenson, so the latter's claim will be interesting.
Leaning Town: Lifthrasil, blotunga, Pookina
Leaning Scum: GymHenson, Bookwyrm627, Microfish_1
Based on the above, the most likely team are Bookwyrm627 and Microfish_1. Cue someone accusing me of contradicting myself, as I've previously stated that I look at individuals rather than a team, but I'm actually naming them individually as my most likely rather than any interactions between them.
Lifthrasil: I don't remember either how much time was between those. But it doesn't really matter. Why would scum not admit that Daychat is useful? It is simple enough information and basically common knowledge among those, who have played with Daychat in the past. And I, as scum, would totally admit that it is useful. Why not? It's an easy way to appear helpful to reply to such a question about mechanics. It doesn't really, I'm just posting my observations as I work my way through the thread. It's the speed at which blotunga responded that gives him town points for me.
How accurate is your gut, historically?
The rest of page 4 contains a number of posts about FlockeSchnee requesting a replacement, and Lifthrasil mis-understanding my reply.
Leaning Town: Lifthrasil, blotunga, Pookina
Leaning Scum: GymHenson, Bookwyrm627, Microfish_1
Based on the above, the most likely team are Bookwyrm627 and Microfish_1. Cue someone accusing me of contradicting myself, as I've previously stated that I look at individuals rather than a team, but I'm actually naming them individually as my most likely rather than any interactions between them.
trentonlf
Easily amused
Registered: Apr 2014
From United States
Posted May 05, 2021
GymHenson 3 - Pookina (#332), nmillar (#372), blotunga (#424)
Lifthrasil 1 - Microfish_1 (#353)
nmillar 3 - Lifthrasil (#378), Bookwyrm627 (#389), GymHenson (#400)
trentonlf 1 - Microfish_1 (#364)
Not voting: Catte
With 9 players it takes 5 votes to achieve a lynch.
GymHenson and nmillar are closest to lynch at L-2.
D2 ends in just under 1.5 days.
UNVOTE
To all, I think Nmillar is a bad lynch and I have no interest in voting him. I see my requests from everyone to please give me their top two scum choices and why was ignored by most (thanks to those that actually answered), but then again I am not surprised as it seems that people trying to actually work together to push others does not happen often and scum tend to find ways to maneuver around most interactions.
Also, why do so many people keep referring to something ZFR said or theorized like it's gospel when he's not here to agree or possibly change his position on? I find it funny how often people try to use a players words or actions that are not even in the game to make a point or push a lynch. I prefer to draw my own conclusions with the help of others (and yes that can include people not in the game) and not just use something someone else has said to base my vote or opinion on, especially if that someone is not even in the game anymore to possibly change their position or view point.
I will be in training most of today again and it will likely be this evening before I get the chance to post once more.
As of right now I would gladly lynch anyone except nmillar or Bookwyrm, and that's because my gut tells me that they are town.
dedoporno
A bloody pirate!
Registered: Apr 2012
From Bulgaria
Posted May 05, 2021
My bad. The forum has been terrible with showing me exactly who is quoting me where and I missed the double vote pointings.
VOTE COUNT
GymHenson 3 - Pookina (#332), nmillar (#372), blotunga (#424)
nmillar 3 - Lifthrasil (#378), Bookwyrm627 (#389), GymHenson (#400)
trentonlf 1 - Microfish_1 (#364)
Not voting: Catte, trentonlf
With 9 players it takes 5 votes to achieve a lynch.
GymHenson and nmillar are closest to lynch at L-2.
D2 ends in just over 1 day.
This should be better.
VOTE COUNT
GymHenson 3 - Pookina (#332), nmillar (#372), blotunga (#424)
nmillar 3 - Lifthrasil (#378), Bookwyrm627 (#389), GymHenson (#400)
trentonlf 1 - Microfish_1 (#364)
Not voting: Catte, trentonlf
With 9 players it takes 5 votes to achieve a lynch.
GymHenson and nmillar are closest to lynch at L-2.
D2 ends in just over 1 day.
This should be better.
nmillar
↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A
Registered: Feb 2009
From United Kingdom
Posted May 05, 2021
More on Lifthrasil's misunderstanding, summarised quite nicely by ZFR.
FlockeSchnee votes no lynch. Scum points.
FlockeSchnee: I (still) don't see any Mafia, so I vote accordingly:
vote No-Lynch
@dedo: If no-lynch isn't an official option (didn't see it in the first post on a quick skim), please take it as me as ramaining not-voting. Which is quite rightly picked up on by Lifthrasil.
Lifthrasil: Really? After the discussion that it would be prudent to conserve our no-lynch safety margin you vote no-lynch? So do you disagree with wanting to keep that safety net? Or do you expect that you'll see any Mafia tomorrow, without having a wagon to analyze? To which Catte responds to by also voting no lynch ...
my name is capitayn catte: I'm actually tempted to vote no lynch.
1. The Maths™ supports it. This is something I learned when running my previous game.
2. I missed a couple of days toDay so the deadline feels shorter to me than it otherwise would have. I don't want to ask for an extension, but I also don't have any strong reasons to vote for anyone.
Given that NL on D1 is actually not bad with the numbers we have, I
vote nolynch
for now. Which Bookwyrm627 immediately questions.
Bookwyrm627: Let's say we No Lynch. What do we learn, at all, from that? What does a No Lynch tell us about who is and is not scum? How can a No Lynch help us in the future determine who is and is not scum? And Pookina also weighs in.
Pookina: I quickly skim all the articles from my last appearance (when?) up until now, and I see a growing list of no-lynch support, and let just add my opinion here:
no. Time to expand on the town / scum list.
Strong Town: blotunga, Pookina
Leaning Town: Lifthrasil
Neutral: Catte, FlockeSchnee / trentonlf (though dislike both voting no lynch on D1)
Leaning Scum: GymHenson, Microfish_1, Bookwyrm627
Strong Scum: nobody
FlockeSchnee votes no lynch. Scum points.
vote No-Lynch
@dedo: If no-lynch isn't an official option (didn't see it in the first post on a quick skim), please take it as me as ramaining not-voting.
1. The Maths™ supports it. This is something I learned when running my previous game.
2. I missed a couple of days toDay so the deadline feels shorter to me than it otherwise would have. I don't want to ask for an extension, but I also don't have any strong reasons to vote for anyone.
Given that NL on D1 is actually not bad with the numbers we have, I
vote nolynch
for now.
no.
Strong Town: blotunga, Pookina
Leaning Town: Lifthrasil
Neutral: Catte, FlockeSchnee / trentonlf (though dislike both voting no lynch on D1)
Leaning Scum: GymHenson, Microfish_1, Bookwyrm627
Strong Scum: nobody
Bookwyrm627
ADD Jumping Bean
Registered: Nov 2013
From United States
Posted May 05, 2021
I mean, if Trent actually decloaks as IC later, what are we going to do? Call him a scummy liar?
(Of course, if he's scum, then his pseudo-vanilla claim doesn't mean anything either; the number of places IC could be hiding isn't reduced.)
---
In other news, I see nmillar is working his way up to voting for me. OMGUS! Well, OMGIS, I guess. :)
nmillar
↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A
Registered: Feb 2009
From United Kingdom
Posted May 05, 2021
Lifthrasil
Bring the GOG-Downloader back!
Registered: Apr 2011
From Germany
Posted May 05, 2021
I mean, if Trent actually decloaks as IC later, what are we going to do? Call him a scummy liar?