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General discussionGOG Mafia #69 (he he) - The Uniwizard Tournament: Second Edition(1202 posts)(1202 posts)
(1202 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted September 07, 2020
Morning!

Hm, both catte and Micro are bit too jumpy after fairly innocuous questions.
Catte says it is because of RL but it still doesn't mean it can't be indication of alignment.

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gogtrial34987: Tell me, phaolo, how much reading did you do in preparation for the game?

Scum absolutely want chaos - but they also want to hide in the shadows. The fewer interactions there are to analyze by town, the better for them.
So you are saying to new player here he shouldn't focus on you, who like to stay in the spotlight but instead go after people with different playstyle and you will be in the clear. Gotcha.


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gogtrial34987: Did I use the wrong idiom?

In any case, my intention was: There's nothing to talk about, so let's find something to nitpick and blow out of proportion, and see what reaction I get. I expected this to fizzle out swiftly, with a tiny chance of me picking scum to have the argument with and them slipping, and a slightly larger but still small chance of scum seeing the argument in progress and reinforcing or shading either side too strongly.

What do you think? Was this town-gogtrial, or devious anti-town-gogtrial?
Or incite something that would later end in our usual D1 jumping on marginal thing because we have nothing else.
Do you think manufacturing of argument can work? Have you followed previous game? If youdid and I know it is not the same thing but dou you think what Pooka was trying there worked?


Trent's proclamation of gogtrial as town reads to me a bit too much as something he did when we were mafia together.


Oh, so early and so many suspects already. I suppose it's good thing?


OK, ZFR is not around to call me wrong so my team. Hmm...
Micro
gogtrial
Trent


For the vote debate, I personally always prefer if only "vote X" is used because it makes it easier to search for them through the thread (that's why I quickly stopped making up various ways to vote in last game).
I usually also prefer (even more as mod) if they are on separate line as otherwise they are easier to miss when skimming.
But I also get mods like it in different ways and it's something I am not going to be disappointed about whatever way it is.
If it was up to vote, I would say only vote and on separate line. So even more strict than now. :-)
Posted September 07, 2020
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phaolo:
Could you still answer my question from #57.
Also, at a guess, what in particular do you think I found interesting about your post?
(FWIW, my purpose with this question is building up a mental model of how you think and reason, in order to better read your posts for consistency. Please assist in this, as if you're town, you very much want people to be able to read you accurately!)

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gogtrial34987: If any bolded word is allowed as a vote, there wouldn't be any string I could search for, and I'd have to visually scan each page for bolded strings (or do a search through the raw HTML), which is a lot more hassle.
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GymHenson: True enough...that aside, though, shouldn't town!Gogtrial be reading the posts carefully to help find scum anyways? ;)
If you look back to #62, you'll notice that the context was "rereading". Specifically the type of rereading where I'm trying to get a feel for the overall shape of the game, of how naturally (or not) votes moved back and forth.
Now what was this about reading posts carefully..? ;)

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gogtrial34987: What do you think? Was this town-gogtrial, or devious anti-town-gogtrial?
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JoeSapphire: What would you want me to think?
I don't like this reaction. :(

votus bigbrotherus nomoreus Joe

Obviously, there was no Joe-specific angle to the interaction, so no specific aim for making you think anything. town-gogtrial is okay with town-Joe considering him potentially anti-town, because he'd be crazy not to. I was expecting a thought-process back-and-forth argument as reaction, where the eventual conclusion you'd draw would be less enlightening than the argument itself.
Needless to say, anti-town-gogtrial would want you to think me to be town-gogtrial, would've gone about reaching that point in a different way, and would've succeeded. :P
Posted September 07, 2020
Catching up, until then
unvotus joe.
Posted September 07, 2020
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gogtrial34987: Could you still answer my question from #57.
Also, at a guess, what in particular do you think I found interesting about your post?
I mostly checked a wiki plus some link here on Gog.
No idea
Posted September 07, 2020
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gogtrial34987: the whole silly thing
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Microfish_1: Raises eyebrows
Lol, seriously? I wrote two posts, with both real talk and flavour blocks.
For the record, "the whole silly thing" are not words I wrote. It's you paraphrasing.

You basically came to this conclusion already, but to clarify, my questions weren't about you. My questions were about getting GH to commit to something, based on his "Dunno if it means anything or not, though."

He did, in stark contrast to GR in #67. Figuring out what - if anything - that means, is left as an exercise for the reader. (Do please post your reasoning publicly!)

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Vitek: Do you think manufacturing of argument can work? Have you followed previous game? If youdid and I know it is not the same thing but dou you think what Pooka was trying there worked?
I think it can work (as in, reveal something). I think it almost never does, but the attempt itself does provide a genuine topic of conversation, which allows people to take stances, and that then allows us to start looking at consistency of reasoning and gets us out of RVS. In that aspect, it very much can, and usually does, work, and it's in town's interest to have this happen.

I mostly skimmed #68. Pooka did the thing with asking specific people what they'd do as specific roles, right? Was that the first meaningful content of #68, and did that get people talking about meaningful things? If so, it "worked", though I don't know if that was his intent. (Sorry, rushed for time, so can't go and look up the outcome myself.)

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Vitek: Micro
gogtrial
Trent
Do you see the three of us as a team, or just that these are the three individual people most likely to count scum among us?
Specifically: I thought the same about trent's proclamation (though I strongly suspect he only does that as scum because he believes he'd also do it as town) - but do you believe he'd also do that if we were both scum?
Posted September 07, 2020
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trentonlf: But, gogtrial is probably Town and I have no interest in voting him today
This rubs me in all the wrong places in a wrong way. I don't think that scum!trent would try to divert attention so early from a scumbuddy, but why would town trent say this? Masons? Or is it scum!tren trying to buddy up. Still, it would be too early for a shrewd player like him. Anyway, not much else going on from what I see. A votecount would be nice, I don't have time atm to do it myself. And holding off until later with votes.
Posted September 07, 2020
New page bump

Vote Count

Joe 3 - catte, Micro, gogtrial
catte 2 - nmillar, GH
Micro 1 - Joe
gogtrial 1 - phaolo
phaolo 1 - Vitek

Not voting - dedo, Lift, trent, blotunga

12 players in game. Takes 7 to lynch.

Joe is closessssssssssssssssssssssst at L-4

When you see a vote count, please make sure your name is against the correct person. Let me know if it isn't.
Post edited September 07, 2020 by ZFR
Posted September 07, 2020
Huh, why is Joe still cupboard to lunch?

I should probably
unvotus Joe
and consider what's actually going on. When I placed my votus on Joetus it was pure RVS. Is Joe just attracting RVS votes like bees to vinegar or is there something to it?
Posted September 07, 2020
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my name is coole catte: Huh, why is Joe still cupboard to lunch?

I should probably
unvotus Joe
and consider what's actually going on. When I placed my votus on Joetus it was pure RVS. Is Joe just attracting RVS votes like bees to vinegar or is there something to it?
Not sure, but the wagon did grow a bit fast for my taste. If I have remained on board he'd be already L-3. Well, not anymore.
So if gogtrial is town as trent says, maybe I should take a closer look at Microfish :D
Posted September 07, 2020
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blotunga: So if gogtrial is town as trent says, maybe I should take a closer look at Microfish :D
Why are you willing to take trent's word for gogtrial being Town? What are your own thoughts on that?

This looks a bit like 'follow the leader' to save the hassle of making own observations - or like scum, using trent as excuse for giving reads. Or buddying up to trent by following him.
Posted September 07, 2020
Unvote Catte.

That built up far too quickly.
Posted September 07, 2020
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gogtrial34987: I mostly skimmed #68. Pooka did the thing with asking specific people what they'd do as specific roles, right? Was that the first meaningful content of #68, and did that get people talking about meaningful things? If so, it "worked", though I don't know if that was his intent. (Sorry, rushed for time, so can't go and look up the outcome myself.)
Yeah, bascially that. It got people to talk but I don't think it led to any really anywhere. I feel it only distracted town by suspecting Pooka (including me) and hasn't produced any good town or mafia reads. certainly not for me and I don't feel like it did for anyone.
I am of the opinion similar attempts mostly lead to misunderstandings and either mislynches or too much time is spent or arguing something that was taken the wrong way and rarely it expose anything scummy and such I find it can be also used by experienced scum to "manufacture argument" to hopefully make someone say something wrong (not scummy) and get a mislynch.

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gogtrial34987: Do you see the three of us as a team, or just that these are the three individual people most likely to count scum among us?
Specifically: I thought the same about trent's proclamation (though I strongly suspect he only does that as scum because he believes he'd also do it as town) - but do you believe he'd also do that if we were both scum?
Not as team. It was thrown together from the current reads. Because of trent's statement it is less likely you would be mafia together. BUt I can start to play WIFOM here and muse if it was what he knew everyone would believe and dared to say that because of i. That would get me nowhere and I would be more inclined it was scum trent buddying up to town gogtrial.

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nmillar: Unvote Catte.

That built up far too quickly.
So what do you make of it?
Do you think any f the voters could have nefarious reason?
Posted September 07, 2020
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Vitek: So what do you make of it?
Do you think any f the voters could have nefarious reason?
It's all still RVS at the moment. GH and gogtrial did join quite quickly, but nothing to read into it at this stage. You should know, I don't get explosive until Day 2. ;)
Posted September 07, 2020
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nmillar: It's all still RVS at the moment. GH and gogtrial did join quite quickly, but nothing to read into it at this stage. You should know, I don't get explosive until Day 2. ;)
OK.
(We will have to do with my explosive diarrhea until you are ready to do your thing)
Posted September 07, 2020
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gogtrial34987: For the record, "the whole silly thing" are not words I wrote. It's you paraphrasing.

You basically came to this conclusion already, but to clarify, my questions weren't about you. My questions were about getting GH to commit to something, based on his "Dunno if it means anything or not, though."

He did, in stark contrast to GR in #67. Figuring out what - if anything - that means, is left as an exercise for the reader. (Do please post your reasoning publicly!)
Ah, I see. I appreciate your response.
Yes, and also for the record, i wasn't calling you silly, nor was i trying to be insulting. Apologies if I came across that way.

I shall study it--and maybe even reread 67--a bit closer.

Blotunga raises a good point about Trent's "proclamation without proof" being...unusual this early on. Still, Trent is a good enough player to not slip up and backup a scumbuddy early on, unless he thought there was genuine heat. His "i'd bus anybody anytime" does not equal "i'd support a teammate anytime."
As i see it, we have either (alphabetical order)
Scum Trent attempting to pocket town gogtrial. Unsure as this is early and obvious, but maybe he's setting groundwork for later.
Scum Trent became rushed and saying anything to look busy--Gogtrial in this case might or might not be scum, this has to be read as NAI right now, but might revisit later.
Scum Trent communicating something to scum gogtrial in code because of no day-chat (though daychat has I guess become a thing here? It wasn't in the last HP game, but ZFR might be doing things differently this time.)
Third-party Trent doing something similar to A, but with slightly different motives.
Town Trent exhibiting honesty, but without reasoning. The Danger is that this appears as skating.
Town Trent formulating a message to a teammate with whom he shares a NC. This does not exclude e.
I might have missed some possibilites as I write this, but--knowing trent tries to play the same way on either side, did he think he needed to say this and just mistimed it?

@trent: you say "I have no interest in voting gogtrial today". Is this statement open for equivocation if you get new info or he says something you don't like, or is this settled in your mind as unalterable D1 fact?

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Vitek: A Message from Vitek
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gogtrial34987:
You respond to Vitek in general, but do not mention the following phrase of his at all.
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Vitek: So you are saying to new player here he shouldn't focus on you, who like to stay in the spotlight but instead go after people with different playstyle and you will be in the clear. Gotcha.
Do you have anything to say to this? Is that what you were saying?

@Vitek, as ZFR is not around to tell you you are wrong about your team (I mean, he is, but he also isn't, If you know what I mean) I'm going to tell you that your readlist is wrong as far as I am concered.
What are your thoughts on the questions you ask gogtrial? Do you agree with his reasoning?

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my name is coole catte: Huh, why is Joe still cupboard to lunch?

I should probably
unvotus Joe
and consider what's actually going on. When I placed my votus on Joetus it was pure RVS. Is Joe just attracting RVS votes like bees to vinegar or is there something to it?
The only serious vote on Joe, if any, was Gogtrial in Post 77.

@nmillar, did you have any reason for voting Catte at all? If yes, how have they changed to where you are unvoting him?

I was gonna say more but i fell asleep 4x while writing this, so i'm going to send this off and collapse. I feel like I'm missing something but can no longer think through this fog.
Pages:
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionGOG Mafia #69 (he he) - The Uniwizard Tournament: Second Edition(1202 posts)(1202 posts)
(1202 posts)