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General discussionGOG Mafia #69 (he he) - The Uniwizard Tournament: Second Edition(1202 posts)(1202 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted September 30, 2020
(EBWOP: My last post had two misspellings, one which should be the word "despite" and the other which should be the word "suspects")
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Addition to my reply to you in Post 886:

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dedoporno: Man, that's a terribly convenient list. You're practically suspecting all alive players sans exactly three (you and two others) in a game where it's likely we have three scum hiding among us. You're not going to make this any easier, are you?
Oh wait, did you mean you are honestly contemplating that (If I were scum) I would list everyone as suspects but myself and my scumbuddies? Really?

BTW I am also now suspecting Micro a bit due to their "random" vote on me recently....and not just due to that, but because I recently proposed we get players (including myself) to claim, and Micro was one of the ones I asked specifically if they were willing to claim.
(The other being Vitek...I asked in Post 844, btw)
Posted September 30, 2020
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Vitek: how is calling him possible scum not scum accusation?
because everyone except myself could be scum. I don't know and have been slipping this game on inatentiveness. Either that, or scum has been doing an excellent job of playing town (something i feared from gogtrial).

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dedoporno: That means you, Catte and Vitek. I'd also count myself in the same category if I was someone else making that observation but obviously I won't be doing that. The reason I feel that way is the obvious (is it obvious?) lack of more serious effort from the heavy hitters in the face of MYLO.
Do you mind if I count you in that category? Also, it isn't obvious to me. I always get early-game town vibes from lift, and they change so I usually NAI vibes from Lift late game, and the time I got late-game scum vibes from lift, he was town PR. >:( I've almost (but not quite) given up on figuring him out.
Catte, I only saw as scum once, and we had lunched him by D3. This was really only deduced because *no-one* had a read on him; he was completely ambiguous. Vitek, idr ever seeing as scum so am not saying anything here.
This concerns me about this game because no-one has given solid reads one way or t'other.
As I said in previous games, my default is to see the best in everyone, so this game where you have to see the worst in everyone is..daunting at times...

Also, I came down with a vote in my 2nd or 3rd post of toDay (but yes, my 1st substantial post) but it was on someone i've been suspecting on and off since D1, after 30 or so hours of GH's posts on D3, and after thinking about the snippets i'd had time to read in the meantime. So, not as rushed as you might imagine.
Also, i don't know whether to be mildly irritated at "it's micro so idk how to feel" :P

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my name is magike catte: Well if you think you might have found a role cop broadcasting information about other town roles, do you A) kill the role cop or B) kill the person you think they're talking about and see where it leads? Why would you kill the goose that you think is laying golden eggs? Well I guess you might kill it because geese are dicks, but anyway.
The fact they went for gogtrial is another (admittedly small) scum point for GH.
this is a reason for us to suspect you even more, as I think.

if you broadcast something about a "G" player, and GH survives the next day, then the fact that you weren't offed makes me think that you are of the scum team bc otherwise the scum would off the broadcaster?
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dedoporno: If I leave you aside for a moment Catte is bugging me the most right now. Last game he was the most active and aggressive I've probably seen him so far. He was Town and he wasn't letting the victory be taken away (after all it had all of Town's names written on it from the get-go :P) . Now he seems so lax, he's just responding calmly to GH's farfetched accusations [and is probably softly grinning about it].
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my name is magike catte: Well there is a major difference for me IRL between then and now. I work in a college and last game was during the summer holidays during a pandemic. To say I had time on my hands would be an understatement. The entirety of this game has taken place during the beginning of term. Not only am I back at work, but the beginning of term is always busy and chaotic. I definitely haven't been giving the game my all, I'm tired man!
So, you would admit to having been "bored out of your gourd" as the old saying is?
Get some sleep sometime. But first, would you please list your suspects in order or greatest to least or least to greatest (and identify how this list is stacked).

GL @NMillar! stay safe and have fun!

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GymHenson: stuff
I appreciate your clarification. I'll have to re-read it (again, I wasn't there to gather the info that others did). I would ask you, if you were in the other shoes, because ZFR has not provided a timeanddate clock, if you were unsure of the time remaining, would you hammer when another player announced intention of waiting 10 minutes (very close to deadline) before hammering? If I as there, my gut would have been screeching "agh! what about the time! what if they purposely delay until after the deadline or my clock is off or it took zfr 5 minutes to write his post about how much time is left or the timestamp doesn't say how many minutes ago it was or... what if i get a phonecall or my car alarm goes off or the doorbell rings or my house burns down (okay, not the last one)...
I don't know that i would have let someone wait that extra time before their stated intention of hammering if I wasn't sure of their alignment.

But that is me.

You are concerned because you think scum wanted you to look better? Idk, man, that seems rather far-fetched to me. It wasn't a case of "vote to stave off the leaking ship" because it wasn't a scum flip...

I see your point about the "major bulk" bit of your quote, but am unsure of if I agree. Had Vitek suspected you prior to that point? idr, nor do i have time to check (waiting by the phone for a phone call that might not come is an extremely wearing spot to be in.)

If you were disappointed about not being NK etc, I would ask you if you were a jester or some such. WIFOM and all that. But I do get your concerns and am similarly concerned about myself. I know I;m not the best or most logical player, and am easily "exploited" in my reads. This makes me fear being led by my nose like a... idk...person with a hook in his nose. If I am being led, I wold have said it was by gogtrial, but he was town.
Pooka isn't in the game (officially) to lead me, so I suspect in turns Catte, Dedo, or Lift of leading me.
Then I wonder if I am better being ignored instead of being led, and then I get even more confused and...

I have taken your ideas seriously. i don't discard any ideas because of who says it. i consider it from the angle I see things, try and see if I can see it from the proposed angle, and then from the opposite angle, and then try and decide which seems most likely to me.

(and when i try to lunch you, you say I'm wrong. Make up your mind, man! /jk xD )

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Lifthrasil: trying to improve myself
You have been playing remarkably different from usual, and my problem is Idk if you are town trying to improve yourself or playing so differently because you are or 3rd party.
I finally decided that I couldn't take a chance on you being scum, and you or catte look worse than the others.
Nmillar has improved in my viewpoint, while Lift has fallen.

I didn't vote you because you pushed for claim, but because I made my first lengthy post and had been pondering things since EOD2ish.

I'm not excusing Vitek, but he did say his net at work was blockin gog and his home connection was pitiful...might be nothing, might be something...

Wait, you never have gotten a wagon you started to lunch either?
That means it's two of us multi-game players in that boat!
*high-fives the person I'm voting for scum* Way to go!

gonna try posting this in case it doesn't fail unlike my previous ones have done repeatedly today...
then i should go feed...a turkey peanut butter and pickle samwhich.
Posted September 30, 2020
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Microfish_1: I haven't been intentionally flying under the radar, but IRL has been troubling to a certain extent. I mostly haven't seen anything worth saying yet, and have said little as a result.
Sucks to hear about IRL issues....I have also had my fair share this year, so you have my sympathies.

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Microfish_1: Please don't lunch me. I would prefer turkey & pickle & peanut butter sadwiches to be eaten instead.
I wonder.....why are you asking this? No one is voting for you atm. :)
(Though a few iirc did express maybe being willing to vote for you)

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Microfish_1: Willing to vote catte if need be.
Wait......wait a minute....you seem to suspect me, but you'd be willing to vote one of those i've suspected near the entire game? o.0

And you're the second who's done something similar: NMillar, who has suspected me in this game has ALSO recently voted for Catte as well....despite them being on my suspects list and Nmillar suspecting me.

Tis odd it tis. o.0

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To all a BIG question or two: What does every other player(besides Nmillar and Micro, I mean) think about NMillar voting one of my longest held suspects, and Micro claimin to be willing to do the same?

Could Catte be town, or are they willing to throw a poor (possibly defenseless) scum!Catte under the bus?
Posted September 30, 2020
I've been willing to vote for catte for several posts--including the one where i voted for you. I also expressed my willingness to lunch nmillar.

It's a failing of mine from several games. I'm so torn that i'm willing to vote both who i think is scum and yet i can see why they think somone else is scum, so i'm often willing to vote for that person as well.

I'm not willing to vote Catte for your day 1 suspicions, but because of the pattern I see of catte and nmillar being very much on the same page. If it was Joe and catte, i would think nothing of it.
I'd even be willing to vote nmillar (see D2, tho less so now than then)--if he wasn't on vacay rushing around like the proverbial chicken.
Posted September 30, 2020
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Microfish_1: because everyone except myself could be scum. I don't know and have been slipping this game on inatentiveness. Either that, or scum has been doing an excellent job of playing town (something i feared from gogtrial).
Hey, I was ok with ya taking me bordering thing (++++), and the "not a vote" thing, but taking me "I suspect everyone" stance too? o.0 ;)

Wait, did those nice muggles in the black suit-robes really clone me like they said they might? o.0

(The above is just a playful jab, btw, in case anyone didn't get that)

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Microfish_1: I appreciate your clarification. I'll have to re-read it (again, I wasn't there to gather the info that others did). I would ask you, if you were in the other shoes, because ZFR has not provided a timeanddate clock, if you were unsure of the time remaining, would you hammer when another player announced intention of waiting 10 minutes (very close to deadline) before hammering? If I as there, my gut would have been screeching "agh! what about the time! what if they purposely delay until after the deadline or my clock is off or it took zfr 5 minutes to write his post about how much time is left or the timestamp doesn't say how many minutes ago it was or... what if i get a phonecall or my car alarm goes off or the doorbell rings or my house burns down (okay, not the last one)...
I don't know that i would have let someone wait that extra time before their stated intention of hammering if I wasn't sure of their alignment.

But that is me.
Good points......very good points.....but one thing:

ZFR posted the time left every several posts at end of D2....he even said we had around 20-25 minutes left around when I announced my 10 minutes.

I forget the exact amount, but the point is that there was plenty of time to spare for Vitek to vote and hammer if they felt the need to after my 10 minutes.

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Microfish_1: You are concerned because you think scum wanted you to look better? Idk, man, that seems rather far-fetched to me. It wasn't a case of "vote to stave off the leaking ship" because it wasn't a scum flip...
I had a theory on this: maybe scum don't want me to be lynched or want to NK me because I am too on the mark and they don't want people looking into my suspects list if I had gotten/get lynched.

Might be wrong, but worth thinking about at any rate.

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Microfish_1: I see your point about the "major bulk" bit of your quote, but am unsure of if I agree. Had Vitek suspected you prior to that point? idr, nor do i have time to check (waiting by the phone for a phone call that might not come is an extremely wearing spot to be in.)
I dunno....I have been taking more notes and paying more attention this game, but still not enough as I likely should have, so maybe he did and I missed it, or maybe I did notice it and forgot to note it down.

Offtopic: Sorry to hear about your call problems.

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Microfish_1: If you were disappointed about not being NK etc, I would ask you if you were a jester or some such. WIFOM and all that. But I do get your concerns and am similarly concerned about myself. I know I;m not the best or most logical player, and am easily "exploited" in my reads. This makes me fear being led by my nose like a... idk...person with a hook in his nose. If I am being led, I wold have said it was by gogtrial, but he was town.
Pooka isn't in the game (officially) to lead me, so I suspect in turns Catte, Dedo, or Lift of leading me.
Then I wonder if I am better being ignored instead of being led, and then I get even more confused and...
Not disappointed about not being the NK or lynch...just confused why I haven't been either one yet....usually when town I get one or the other before D3.

(Of course it may be due in part to my better attempts at play this game...who knows for sure at this point, though)

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Microfish_1: I have taken your ideas seriously. i don't discard any ideas because of who says it. i consider it from the angle I see things, try and see if I can see it from the proposed angle, and then from the opposite angle, and then try and decide which seems most likely to me.
I meant more that in general it seems that some might, even if subconciously/etc, discard a good chunk of my posts or ideas due to my usual style of play in past games.

Like: "Oh that GH and their silly ideas again....likely either scum or way off the mark as usual"

(i.e. I feel some fellow town aren't taking me seriously enough in what I suspect and read on and say due to my past gameplay efforts)

Yeah my play style can be fun sometimes and works for me, but it can bite me on the butt sometimes...especially when I actually put more effort in like now.

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Microfish_1: (and when i try to lunch you, you say I'm wrong. Make up your mind, man! /jk xD )
It's because while I mostly play for fun, I also want my team to win somewhat.
(though of course now with how much me and my team seem to be messing up & how my reads and stances seem to be received and acted on by some in general I am also losing a bit of my enthusiasm for us to win and my faith that we can win[barring some major miracle, that is]. I mean we're at mylo....I don't know how much worse it could get)

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Microfish_1: I didn't vote you because you pushed for claim, but because I made my first lengthy post and had been pondering things since EOD2ish.
Noted.

Now while we're here: Are you for or against my claim idea?

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Microfish_1: I'm not excusing Vitek, but he did say his net at work was blockin gog and his home connection was pitiful...might be nothing, might be something...
Two things: 1. Vitek was posting several times before and after hammer, so their connection seemed fine.

2. They stated(iirc) that (they felt?) Blotunga wasn't coming back to say anything more, as their reason(at the time) for hammering so quickly. I mean, even if one thinks a person about to be hammered won't come back, why not wait and see first? Especially as that person could be(and was later proven to be) town, and their reads/leans could've helped us win the game.

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Microfish_1: Wait, you never have gotten a wagon you started to lunch either?
That means it's two of us multi-game players in that boat!
*high-fives the person I'm voting for scum* Way to go!
Lol...but yeah...which is why the idea that a scum!me would even try to start a mislynch wagon is nothing short of a laugh riot.

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Microfish_1: gonna try posting this in case it doesn't fail unlike my previous ones have done repeatedly today...
then i should go feed...a turkey peanut butter and pickle samwhich.
Offtopic: I see you like unique sammiches. Mine would be butter and jelly, or potato chip and bologna(when I was younger and could chew it better).
Posted September 30, 2020
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GymHenson: To me, the end of D2 posts and actions by Vitek makes little to no sense. I mean scum would want me to look worse, and would've likely let me hammer.....but maybe Vitek is scum trying some sort of trick and/or protecting other scum?
The only one he 'protected' with that move was you. He prevented you from looking worse by being the one to hammer the mis-lynch. So if he is scum protecting a buddy with that move - that buddy is you!
And as you say yourself, the most prudent thing for scum!Vitek, if you are Town, would have been to let you hammer.

So your argument is basically: "Vitek did something that makes no sense for scum!Vitek. So he must be scum." ... and that is faulty logic.
Posted September 30, 2020
sorry. more later. meeting.
Posted September 30, 2020
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Lifthrasil: So your argument is basically: "Vitek did something that makes no sense for scum!Vitek. So he must be scum." ... and that is faulty logic.
Ok then look at it this way: If Vitek is town and suspected/suspects me, why didn't they wait the 10 minutes to see what i'd do before taking action?

We had the time, they were likely going to be online for a bit...so why not wait? What was the harm?

We had enough time that they could still hammer if I had not hammered(for some odd reason)....even if they had waited.

At the very least, their stated reasoning for hammering seemed "wanting"(for lack of a better word, which I cannot think of atm).
Posted September 30, 2020
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my name is magike catte: To me that was just another way of saying "it was just a random typing thing" or carelessness or a broken keyboard. I said I don't know because it was the simplest way of communicating that I don't really know. :P
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nmillar: This is complete nonsense. You used the exact same method to breadcrumb in the last game, and you're now claiming to have had a "random typing thing" in your opening posts on both D2 and D3, yet no other posts have been affected?

Vote Catte
Read between the lines dude. You really want to pull this thread any more than it's already been pulled?
Posted September 30, 2020
I'm catching up today a bit at a time and replying as I go, so please take into account the fact I will have only read as far as the post I'm replying to.
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my name is magike catte: Well if you think you might have found a role cop broadcasting information about other town roles, do you A) kill the role cop or B) kill the person you think they're talking about and see where it leads? Why would you kill the goose that you think is laying golden eggs? Well I guess you might kill it because geese are dicks, but anyway.
The fact they went for gogtrial is another (admittedly small) scum point for GH.
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Microfish_1: this is a reason for us to suspect you even more, as I think.

if you broadcast something about a "G" player, and GH survives the next day, then the fact that you weren't offed makes me think that you are of the scum team bc otherwise the scum would off the broadcaster?
Hypothetically, it would depend on what they thought was being broadcast, right? If they thought I was identifying PRs for them, why would they kill me? GH survived, gogtrial did not. Both players' names begin with a G so I'm not sure what you're getting at. I was taking the fact they went for gogtrial to be a possible sign that GH is scum.
Posted September 30, 2020
Vote Count

Vitek 1 - GH
GH 1 - Micro
catte 1 - nmillar


Not voting - catte, Lift, phaolo, dedo, Vitek

8 players. Takes 5 to lynch.

Vitek, GH and catte are closest at L-4
Post edited September 30, 2020 by ZFR
Posted September 30, 2020
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my name is magike catte: I really have no idea.
___

Well if you think you might have found a role cop broadcasting information about other town roles, do you A) kill the role cop or B) kill the person you think they're talking about and see where it leads? Why would you kill the goose that you think is laying golden eggs? Well I guess you might kill it because geese are dicks, but anyway.
The fact they went for gogtrial is another (admittedly small) scum point for GH.
But it makes so little sense. Do you really believe mafia thought you are role cop, when MIcro "outed" you, the role that bascially doesn't exists for town on GOG, they thought you are for some reason crumbing power roles, the post in question told them GIS and based on that they decided to kill gogtrial as it told them he is something important and they kept you alive so you can provide them with more informations?
Does that really sounds plausible to you?

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Lifthrasil: Yes. And that you asked a question which you basically answered yourself by quoting the message from ZFR in the same post. That is inattentiveness even to your own post. Even if you, as you said, went through other peoples posts sequentially.
Yeah, I overlooked that one sentence I admit it. I got too stuck on the Oho part and the fact it was outright confirmed mafia are Salem and thus houses are of not much importance which was supporting my views that I didn't take that first one into account. If it is enough to call me inattentive then I suppose I am.


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Microfish_1: because everyone except myself could be scum. I don't know and have been slipping this game on inatentiveness. Either that, or scum has been doing an excellent job of playing town (something i feared from gogtrial).
Why did you say you fear it is scum talking?

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Microfish_1: Vitek, idr ever seeing as scum so am not saying anything here.
Dude, we played 1 game together and I was mafia there...


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GymHenson: I have explained that to be the case in several past games....you seem to act like this is something new I just started mentioning this game.
You act like being inconsistent in reads and opinions and changeing them on the fly is not scum tell. Because it absolutely is.
It's not about forgetting things. It's about holding position that suits you and discarding it for contradictory one as soon as you need it.

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GymHenson: Even though i've never (as far as I can remember or recall) got a wagon that i'd started to lynch?
I am glad it amused you.
Does it mean you are not ever trying to achieve lynch because it is not possible to be done? Why are you pushing it then?


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GymHenson: At the very least, their stated reasoning for hammering seemed "wanting"(for lack of a better word, which I cannot think of atm).
I had one and only reason for making the hammer when I did and I stated it outright. There was nothing else to to it.
Not everything I do is related to my in-game alignment and is supposed to push my agenda.
Posted September 30, 2020
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Microfish_1: So, you would admit to having been "bored out of your gourd" as the old saying is?
Get some sleep sometime. But first, would you please list your suspects in order or greatest to least or least to greatest (and identify how this list is stacked).
I did, it didn't help. :(
I went to bed early and got a solid 8 hours, but in some ways I feel more tired than I do when I only get 4 hours.

1. you/nmillar (not mutually exclusive, just joint first)
3. GH
4. Vitek? I don't feel too strongly about it


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GymHenson: To all a BIG question or two: What does every other player(besides Nmillar and Micro, I mean) think about NMillar voting one of my longest held suspects, and Micro claimin to be willing to do the same?

Could Catte be town, or are they willing to throw a poor (possibly defenseless) scum!Catte under the bus?
It does make me wonder if you were right about Nmillar. You've been suspecting both of us for a while, it looks to me like nmillar is trying to tip the scales. Frankly, his paranoid reaction to me "breadcrumb" already made me wonder.
I already suspect Micro for other reasons, so him suddenly being ready to go along with nmillar does rub me up the wrong way.

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Microfish_1: I'm not willing to vote Catte for your day 1 suspicions, but because of the pattern I see of catte and nmillar being very much on the same page. If it was Joe and catte, i would think nothing of it.
I'd even be willing to vote nmillar (see D2, tho less so now than then)--if he wasn't on vacay rushing around like the proverbial chicken.
Well the only thing I think I've really been on the same page with nmillar about is the lack of logic in his theory linking me and nmillar. It only seems natural that we'd both be on the same page about it?
Posted September 30, 2020
Huzzah, it worked. I can post at work again.
Posted September 30, 2020
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GymHenson: Two things: 1. I suspect every other player but confirmed town in every game.
2. I have sorted them by suspicion level, so my biggest suspets would be at the top....this game atm they would be:
NMillar/Catte/Vitek at the top, then you and Lift.

That help any?
No because point 1) contradicts the list you're providing. You say you suspect every other player outside of the confirmed Townies. Then you proceed to leave out phaolo and Micro entirely from your list of suspects. They are not confirmed Town so if 1) is true both of them should still be listed even if at the very bottom. But you keep leaving them out explicitly.

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GymHenson: Oh wait, did you mean you are honestly contemplating that (If I were scum) I would list everyone as suspects but myself and my scumbuddies? Really?
Really. If you're not scum a whole lot of what what you've been saying and doing is extremely questionable. So if you're prone to strange behavior as Town there is no reason to discount weird/poor play as scum. Sorry not sorry.

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GymHenson: BTW I am also now suspecting Micro a bit due to their "random" vote on me recently....and not just due to that, but because I recently proposed we get players (including myself) to claim, and Micro was one of the ones I asked specifically if they were willing to claim.
The vote didn't seem to raise an issue when it was put as you posted your list at least twice, hours after it was placed and Micro wasn't considered in neither of them. So I guess him not answering your question about claiming is catalyst here?


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Microfish_1: Do you mind if I count you in that category?
By all means, please do.

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Microfish_1: Also, i don't know whether to be mildly irritated at "it's micro so idk how to feel" :P
By all means, please do. Yeah, sorry about that remark, I didn't mean to offend you (again:)) BUT if you remember the last game and maybe some previous instances as well you may see where I'm coming from :)

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Microfish_1: You have been playing remarkably different from usual, and my problem is Idk if you are town trying to improve yourself or playing so differently because you are or 3rd party.
Why are the options here just Town or 3rd party?


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GymHenson: What does every other player(besides Nmillar and Micro, I mean) think about NMillar voting one of my longest held suspects, and Micro claimin to be willing to do the same?
That you are wrong about Catte and/or you are wrong about nmillar? Another option is distancing.

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GymHenson: Could Catte be town, or are they willing to throw a poor (possibly defenseless) scum!Catte under the bus?
Everyone can be Town just like everyone can be scum. Scum are likely on the verge of winning right now. Bussing should be an acceptable option for them at this point as it takes them down a notch and gives us another night to work with and possibly extrapolate data from the interactions of the bussed player.


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GymHenson: Of course, i'm growing a bit tired of this game.....if I get close to hammer, who knows, I have half a mind to toss in the last vote so we can move to the afterparty.
"And then THIS HAPPENED!!"
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General discussionGOG Mafia #69 (he he) - The Uniwizard Tournament: Second Edition(1202 posts)(1202 posts)
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