I'm on mobile again between two project meetings. So I won't read through the long posts now. I'll reply later in detail.

For now just: @dedo: I know what you meant. My 'do tell' was just me implying tongue in cheek that you are scum and could tell us more about how fun that is. Since scum wouldn't tell during a running game that they are just now having fun playing as scum, I thought it would be clear, that that was a joke-y post. I did not think that your comment, that it is more fun to play as active scum actually was a slip. But I assumed, that it was aimed at me.

As for why I assumed that you still suspect me, well, that's just a reasonable guess. If something had happened at Night to change your mind about me, you would have revealed that, I guess. With us being at MYLO, I think if you could clear a player, you would do so. Since you didn't, I just assumed that your read from yesterday was still valid. Which was apparently a correct assumption.

sorry you feel rotten, i hope you feel better soon!

Not an accusation, but more of stating a concern on my part, as I have to be very cautious at this point and suspect everyone + look for anything unusual.

i'm quite sorry, that was supposed to be a GH quote. I quoted him quoting you and removed the wrong tag.

I actually didn't notice the smiley at the end so I assumed that you're nitpicking again. Apologies.

Fair although normally there should be a consideration that I may be keeping quiet a bit longer intentionally. Anyway, I'll take your answer, thanks.


@Micro, do you have an idea on what to do next to turn things around?

Progress! Now the GOG works at work once again. There is still small problem with that I can't sign in but at least I can reach the site. Hopefully tehy will fix it completely soon.

That is a valid question. @Catte: your message reads as if you wanted nmillar to claim third. After GH and micro. Did you really miss that nmillar already claimed?

(nvm. I just saw that you replied to GH in #853 on this)

But that is a good (and funny) think too. @GH: if being online at the same time is a scum-tell, then you are Scum, by your own 'logic'. Hell, we all are scum then, because we all are regularly online at the same time as some other players.


Yes, GH's reasoning does sound as if he had his conclusion first and then is making up 'evidence' on the fly. For every normal player that would be a scum tell. For GH ... not so much. He always does that.

But you say, again, that GH is your top scum pick and you seem to be quite confident of your read. So why don't you vote him?

Hm. Actually that could also be an explanation why GH is irked about the 'kill steal'. But again, that's NAI, because it is more a theory about the player and not about his alignment.

This is getting too long. More in the next post.

Well, Micro appeared an hour after you wrote that, so this is moot. However, just for completeness, while I am usually a proponent for 'in doubt, lynch a lurker', I don't think that would be a prudent thing to do at MYLO. Unless it seems the only way out. (i.e. all others are too towny or can't be agreed upon).


This seems to be directed at nmillar by the quote above it. But from the content I assume it was directed at GH? Please clarify.

Why do you speculate about Day-chat? Didn't you get my argument? Standard would be 3 scum for 12 players. That would put us at MYLO. Of course it is possible that things aren't as bad as that, but I prefer to err on the safe side. So we should play according to the assumption that we ARE at MYLO. If we aren't, all the better. So why do you try to say that 2+1 is more likely? Are you trying to create a false sense of security? Or do you know something about the presence of a Day-chat, that we don't?

As for GH: yes, he has replied. But the reply didn't really make sense to me.

@phaolo: get better soon!


Observations:
Catte and nmillar seem to be working together to dismantle the arguments of GH. This can either be a scum team ganging up on a Townie who made himself attackable by showing weak reasoning. Or it could be one scum following the suspicion of one Townie who attacks Town!GH. Or GH's weak reasoning could actually be due to him being scum and just making up reasons for suspecting Townies on the fly.

So my take on this is: at least one of the three is scum. Of that I'm relatively certain. I don't think that GH is scum together with any of Catte or nmillar. But catte and nmillar might be scum together. And while I do see all the errors in GH's reasoning, and I do see the difference in his play from previous games I kind of feel that he is Town trying to improve himself. And I feel like the joint dismantling of his arguments by catte and nmillar is coordinated. Which would make them scum together since Townies have no way to coordinate (unless they are Masons, for completeness sake). But that's only a gut feeling and I have been wrong about GH before.

I wasn't ranking them in order and I wouldn't say I'm confident about any of them. I might be dialling back on my GH read a bit because I'm wary of OMGUS. Several of the reasons for my read are to do with his weird reasoning regarding me, so I've given them reduced power because I'm "too close".

I'm trying to figure out if he did anything like this in previous games where he was scum.

Why is it moot? Yes, Micro appeared but I wouldn't say he brought up any new information to work with. As far as everyone is [publicly] concerned we still have nothing "extra" and are only left with what is available in the public domain. So the question stands. So far you've noted what you'd normally do but then stated that's not doable right now because of MYLO. The rest of your post also doesn't seem to contain anything on that matter. So technically you haven't answered the question.

Your question started with: let's assume that Micro won't be available anytime soon. That part was moot. But you're right, I haven't answered what to do about nothing useful coming from him.

If we're honest, you weren't different Today. You started the day with repeated 'catching up' and then a post stating that you have nothing new. However, Micro is keeping that up since the start of the game. He didn't post much and some posts don't contain much content. There are a few lengthy posts where he asks questions, but all in all the theory of him intentionally flying under the radar is valid. However, so is the theory of him lurking due to RL.

We can't risk to lynch a lurker just to get a distraction out of the way. However, lynching a lurker is better than lynching someone you think Town. So Micro is definitely lynchable Today. But I would prefer to lynch someone who appears scummy than someone who is just absent. The problem is: I don't have a clear scum-tell on anyone. I am fairly certain, as I said, that among Catte, nmillar and GH there is at least one scum. I also have a feeling that you, dedo, are Town. Even though you seem different from other games, (and are wrong in your top pick) you seem to be genuine in your attempts to solve the game. If you are fooling me, kudos to you.

Let's see: what speaks for lynching Micro?
- he lurks
- he isn't suspected by GH, so if GH is Town and scum keep him around because he is mostly wrong, Micro might be one of the scum that keep Micro around. And if GH is scum, he might not suspect Micro because of that. So either way could point to Micro as scum.

What speaks against it?
- there is no damning evidence against him and lynching a lurker is a fallback solution, when collecting evidence fails.

Similar arguments are valid for lynching Vitek. Minus the GH consideration, since Vitek is actually one of GH's favourite targets. So he wouldn't have reasons to keep GH around apart from WIFOM. But he has shown some signs of inattentiveness that point to him not really caring about solving the game.

Phaolo's contributions are also quite low. Here the question is, whether he is newbie scum who uses his newbie status to hide behind. Or whether he is just trying to sort out how the game works and that's the reason why he doesn't have many reads in this game yet.

That means Micro and Vitek are both lynchable today, if we don't find anyone better. Micro a tad bit more than Vitek. In any case both are more lynchable than phaolo. GH's argument that Vitek is scum because of the hammering isn't very solid. And my feeling says that Phaolo is an honest newbie and not a scum newbie hiding behind the newbie status. So I wouldn't want to lynch him.

So, my preference would be if we can sort out who out of the triplet of GH, Catte and nmillar is scum. If we can't agree on anyone out of that triplet, Micro would be a fallback solution, followed by Vitek, followed by you and at the lowest end of my lynchability scale would be phaolo. (apart from myself, of course, since there is no way I would vote myself.)

But I have to admit that I'm a bit unsure about the ranking of Micro and Vitek. I'm not sure whether Micro's lurkiness or Vitek's inattentiveness are worse. What do you think?

Well that shouldn't be all that surprising considering the nature of GH's argument. :P

It's not warranted the game will end Today. If scum get lynched we can easily get 2-3 more Days and games almost never go past that..

Don't you have any idea at all who could be scum that you consider lynch to be fully random?

So what was the reason for the strange capitalization?

That doesn't make much sense.


How is calling him possible scum not scum accusation?

I would suggest proceeding by lynching scum. ;-)

If people want to proceed in mechanical way I suppose we could mass claim even though it's not something I like to do ever. I don't think it will be of much use, though. I suspect this won't be role heavy game, we have 2 roles dead already and if anyone had to share something impactful, i think they would have done so already so I don't think it would be of much use.

Couldn't it be just simply because his weird argument concerns both of them so it is only logical they both respond to it?

I was mostly in the same boat regarding GH, but I have trouble with his inconsistencies and explanation of changing opinions by not taking notes. I also feel like he opened the Day by pushing a bit too hard, possibly in hopes of getting quick mislynch.

That's true. Still I don't think you would take apart a scumbuddy-GH in that fashion. So I think you at least aren't scum together with GH. That was the point of my argument.

Not going to be able to participate much / at all until Friday. Conwy in Wales is going into local lockdown as of 6 PM on Thursday, so we need to rush around and get things done over the next couple of days before the long drive home, as all plans assumed we were still going to be here until the weekend.

I've messaged ZFR too.

If there is no objection, I'll move the end Day Saturday evening then.

Sounds like a plan. Do you have someone ready to fill in that spot?


As I said earlier I'm afraid we have a scum team mostly comprised of veteran players who know what they are doing. That means you, Catte and Vitek. I'd also count myself in the same category if I was someone else making that observation but obviously I won't be doing that. The reason I feel that way is the obvious (is it obvious?) lack of more serious effort from the heavy hitters in the face of MYLO. Not just that but there is this aura of calmness and going with the flow coming from Catte and Vitek. You are doing better Today (ha, finally back to being in somewhat in tune, I guess) which is nice but unfortunately that's what I'm expecting of scum!you and your image is already tainted in my eyes so I can't bank on that.

If I leave you aside for a moment Catte is bugging me the most right now. Last game he was the most active and aggressive I've probably seen him so far. He was Town and he wasn't letting the victory be taken away (after all it had all of Town's names written on it from the get-go :P) . Now he seems so lax, he's just responding calmly to GH's farfetched accusations [and is probably softly grinning about it].

Vitek also appears to not be especially worried about the likely MYLO state. Maybe he is Town and knows something that makes the choice easy for him but so far nothing is pointing at that (or I'm missing something).

So yeah, this is what bugs me the most right now.

I kind of agree with you about phaolo. He can be on either side but his attitude and behavior ooze slight sense of a lost Townie. If he is scum emulating that in his very first game - good job.


I'm somewhat worried how Micro came down with a vote straight away in his very first post, which appears to be a nothing more than a hunch in the face of potential MYLO. Not a good look but it's also Micro, so I'm not sure what I should make of that.